Does 27hrs back in 1994 count for FAA PPL today

[Der rote kampffliege]

Hello any legal experts on FAA does training done in Australia 20yrs ago count for anything when doing a FAA ppl today (27hrs Piper Traumahawk) went solo did not complete PPL then life got in the way,clutching at straws perhaps ?

[Blind Squirrel]

A Phíolóta troda dearg:-

Two elements here:-

1. For the purpose of an FAA PPL, do training hours ever expire? No.
2. For the purpose of an FAA PPL, do training hours obtained in Australia count towards the minimum 40 hours required for the issue of a U.S. licence? Ordinarily, yes.

That's the law. Now let's talk practicalities. While theoretically you need only 13 more hours (of the correct type -- cross-country hours, etc.) to proceed to your FAA flight test (checkride), in reality most of those hours won't help you much. Contrary to what they say about flying aeroplanes and riding bicycles, cockpit skills degrade quite rapidly when not practiced recently. You shouldn't expect to take significantly less time than an ab initio trainee to complete your PPL. You still have to pass that flight test. After a twenty-year hiatus, being ready to do so after another forty hours' training would actually be pretty good going.

One wrinkle to remember: Any endorsements you may have in your log-book from your time in Australia won't be valid for FAA purposes, unless they were made by an FAA-certified flying instructor. So you'll still need to be signed off by an FAA person for solo flight, cross-country flight, and so on.

[flybymike]

Contrary to what they say about flying aeroplanes and riding bicycles, cockpit skills degrade quite rapidly when not practiced recently.
I know at least one pilot who, after a break of more than thirty years, flew a physically unaided circuit from take off to touchdown with no difficulty whatsoever.

[shortstripper]

I know at least one pilot who, after a break of more than thirty years, flew a physically unaided circuit from take off to touchdown with no difficulty whatsoever.

That probably depends how much flying the pilot originally did and what sort of flying. I'd imagine someone who had hundreds of hours flying, lets say crop sprayers, could fly a very competent circuit in a basic trainer after a thirty year break. However, (unless a totally natural pilot) an ex student pilot with 27 hours would probably struggle after ten, let alone thirty.

SS

[Blind Squirrel]

Oh, I don't say that one forgets absolutely everything. But after an interruption of twenty years, there will almost certainly be so many missing elements -- "holes" in one's game, so to speak -- in everything from muscle memory to recall of cockpit procedures that once were automatic that the benefit of the 27 hours is likely to be quite small. Who among us, if we were out of the game for so long a time, would then consider themselves capable of performing the following on a consistent basis without additional training:-

1. Emergency procedures.
2. Crosswind landings.
3. Operations in congested airspace or at busy airports.
4. Cross-country navigation, with and without navaids.
5. Unusual attitude recovery/slow flight/steep turns.
6. Soft and short-field take-offs and landings; flapless landings.

No doubt I'm forgetting a few things. But take care of getting the candidate up to speed on those items, and that's a lot of the 27 hours duplicated right there.

[glendalegoon]

YES, they count.


and if you are superb, Lindbergh reincarnated, you will be ready for your checkride in 13 hours.

but you aren't.

and I will bet you haven't done your PPL written exam (USA).

So, go take groundschool, take the PPL written and pass it and then go out and get a flight instructor.

Be sure to do a weight and balance as you may have gained weight since 1994...we all have!

[IFMU]

FAA writtens expire after 2 years. Logged dual with a CFI never expires in the eyes of the FAA.
Bryan

[B Fraser]

I think the original poster is asking if 45 hrs would be needed all over again. If he passes all the exams and skill tests in say another 40 hrs, there would be no need to do a further 5.

[Blind Squirrel]

Um, not sure of the relevance of "45 hours," which isn't an FAA requirement. For the record, here's what he will need:-


(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in § 61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least—


(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a single-engine airplane;


(2) Except as provided in § 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a single-engine airplane that includes—


(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total distance; and
(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.


(3) 3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, including straight and level flight, constant airspeed climbs and descents, turns to a heading, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, radio communications, and the use of navigation systems/facilities and radar services appropriate to instrument flight;


(4) 3 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor in a single-engine airplane in preparation for the practical test, which must have been performed within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and


(5) 10 hours of solo flight time in a single-engine airplane, consisting of at least—


(i) 5 hours of solo cross-country time;
(ii) One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and
(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

[BeechNut]

I passed my PPL back in 1981, and accumulated about 170 hours total time before getting married, buying a house and raising kids got in the way.

In 1999 I resumed flying after about 15 years of only fooling around with Flight Simulator. It took me 15 hours of dual to get it back. In Canada you have to demonstrate to an instructor, after 5 years with no time, that you can successfully pull off all the exercises for the PPL exam; 15 hours was what it took me.

The actual flying skills came back pretty quickly, IMHO if you have about 100 hours that's the "like riding a bicycle" part. What took more time was cockpit procedures, navigation, diversions, etc. Even now, with some 600+ hours, if I don't fly for several months, it's the cockpit drills that are the first to go. We had a terrible winter this year and I was also medically grounded for 3 months which didn't help. I made a point of flying with another pilot until I was back up to speed.

I would think that after 20 years with so few hours, it's pretty much going to be like starting all over again. No point in trying to cut corners. In any case you must demonstrate proficiency to pass the PPL. Having the minimum hours is one thing, but they'll count for nought if you can't pass the PPL, and the time needed for that will pretty quickly become obvious when you start again.

[ChickenHouse]

From what I remember, flight hours do not expire, BUT, golden rule - your instructor will only signal you ready for exam, if she/he is sure you will survive the 100h after license issued. If you are a smart shot, you may not need the 45h on instruction, but they won't be a problem either. If you try to fool and take a shortcut, because you won't be able to fly sufficient for 45h, you most probably kill your family on one of the first flights. Do your flight instruction hours, until ready to pass exam and I bet, after such long time it'll be more than 45h.

[Der rote kampffliege]

Thanks all for your replies I feel it may help having previous 27hrs but yes start from scratch again I certainly would not feel upto taking a piper tommy from here EIWF to EGFE Ireland to Wales distance 100nm right now but really I think what will be different now is FSX sim its sooo real,VOR,ADF ,moving maps etc :) and you can do all the theory stuff online etc so when I get to the flight school I will have the theory polished and have all the handbooks avionics etc plough thru the theory,so different from 1993 no ipad EFB's then or GPS although it was released in 83 after the Korean Airliner was shot down.