Survey

[Synchronize]

Appearing soon in your inbox a survey for you to undertake
Please answer all questions truthfully
The password to log on is unique to you and should not be shared thereby allowing us to identify all respondents .

We haven't promised that we won't take retaliatory action against those who supply answers inconsistent with our philosophy , and the replies you give may be used in any subsequent disciplinary proceedings at a later date

If you want an accurate reflection of how the aircrew feel without the threat of retaliation allow the survey to be conducted anonymously otherwise everything is perfect .

[Chaac]

There are no coincidences in aviation, ask yourself why is a survey been timed to be submitted during a period of industrial tension?

Some adminer didn't just say "I know lets have a survey next week". This would typically take 4-6 months to plan.

In other words one more distraction to take our eyes off the ball. This was planned and timed at the end of last year. CX management have many distraction plans, what will it be next ? Perhaps an advert in Flt Int wanting DEFO??? Close ties with XXX? All freighter flying to be conducted from bases to save costs (you'll have to join a new subsidiary co). A dirty media PR war?
Expat benefits under fire in banking and commerce sector CX just bringing its position in line with market forces etc.?

Whats next?


Why waste your time if you don't like the answer don't ask the question.

[FlexibleResponse]

Never, never, ever fill in a Company-issued Survey.

Surveys are for the Company's benefit and not for yours...

[asianeagle]

it allows them to find out what is adequate and what can be trimmed from your benefits, its probably not to see where they can improve.
Its all about cost, thats what it is, "where can we save money?" is what they are actually trying to find out."

[Captain Dart]

It's part of their 'psy-ops' and would have been advised by the industrial relations consultants that they have paid a lot of money for. I've seen it before.

[GANKER]

so simple , just delete.

[Shep69]

What's the big deal ?

If you don't want to put in the time don't fill it out.

If you do, fill it out with your true beliefs. Don't sugar coat it or use it to vent--just an honest assessment of what's going on.

If they hired shrinks to do this, they would better have spent their money in coherent negotiations. Or reading the internet or just asking the girls downtown. It's no secret that things aren't going well in terms of worker satisfaction and this is becoming unhappier by the minute.

Up to you but if someone comes back later and says "our survey is rosy" and you didn't fill it out, just like an election, you don't have much to squawk about.

[Progress Wanchai]

Do NOT fill in this or any other CX survey.

It's a well known fact that CX is a huge believer in the Gary Becker logic of economics and human behavior. ie, all our decisions and actions can be predicted using a formula with just a few simple known quantities. I know you control freaks out there struggle with this logic but it does seem to work.

We've all filled out one CX survey (the shrink test that wouldn't be used in the selection process but would be used to get a cross section of the typical CX pilot). They know how we think.
The unknown is what we're thinking at the moment. Give them this and the equation is complete. They can plug any CX instigated action into the formula and come up with the resulting pilot/AOA action. Scary thought but Gary won a Nobel prize from it so it can't all be magic. They'll do the least possible to make the equation equal an acceptable answer (Which may well be to do nothing at all)

Currently we're a known unknown. The control freaks want a known known.

Knowledge IS power. Don't give them the knowledge.
Would CX management ever fill out a survey originating from the AOA? They keep their cards close to their chest. I've no idea why we'd want to show ours halfway through the hand.

[Trafalgar]

Guys. Seriously.... Do any of us believe that this management DON'T know what we are thinking at the moment...???! You would have to have been resident on Mars the past 10 years to not have figured that out. They know just how contemptuous we are of them, and they are certainly under no illusions as to what the issues are. Don't fill in this survey. It can only possibly be to provide them with further insight as to our weaknesses and divisions. There can be NO benefit to us personally in filling this out. CX know exactly what we want. This survey is for other nefarious reasons.

[DropKnee]

When they come for your neighbor. Dont say anything. That way you can slip by. That always works.
We loose because we are cowards. :ugh:

[ASH1111]

Please people, in times of industrial unrest, let us maintain civility of grammar!

It's LOSE, not LOOSE! :}

[Captain Dart]

+ 1.

I also remember a classic 'howler' during the last 'unpleasantness' at CX in one of the company's notices; it referred to Flight Ops 'mangers'.

[cxorcist]

Froggy,

You crack me up. I love your last sentence:

"No obvious one sided questions that are onesided."

So, not only are you a company sellout, you are also retarded. Hope that A350 is worth selling your soul for, genius! Where can I get one of those awesome lanyards? Do they make them in French?

Gents,

The survey is actually an IQ test. If you fill it out, you are surely below 100. If you think it's a good survey which can only be used to effectuate positive change, you're below 80 which makes you officially retarded. Congrats!

[letsfly75]

I can't see an upside to filling it out so I won't.

[4-Daned]

Agree!

With cxorcist...

I'm sure it will get filled out. And those that do, are you the 62%?

Because that will lead to another award!

Scroll down this link:

http://www.linkedin.com/company/7097?actionToken=isSponsored%3Dfalse%26distanceFromViewer%3D-1%26aggregationType%3Dnone%26isPublic%3Dtrue%26verbType%3Dli nkedin%3Ashare%26activityId%3Dactivity%3A5864589827952893952 %26contextId%3DGNcnvgZtbBOQU%2B9YXSsAAA%3D%3D%26isDigested%3 Dfalse%26isFolloweeOfPoster%3Dfalse%26actorType%3Dlinkedin%3 Acompany%26pageKey%3Dbiz_company_feed_mapper_public%26feedPo sition%3D10%26actorId%3Dcompany%3A7097%26objectId%3Dcontent% 3A90c169654c1da1ba5ab8e28d8570f954%26rowPosition%3D1%26objec tType%3Dlinkedin%3Acontent%26moduleKey%3Dcompany_feed&trk=feed-body-name

Most attractive employer

[Synchronize]

Please note this entire process is administered confidentially by ***** Surveys and there is no one from Cathay Pacific or any other third party who will be provided with, or will have access to, your individual results, nor can any individual be identified from the responses. We encourage you all to take a few minutes to complete the survey, and thank you to all who have already completed it. It’s by telling us what you think, that we can initiate changes in the future.

Hmmmm don't think I believe that for a nano second

[cxorcist]

No kidding. Again, part of the IQ test. Will we pass???

[IDS]

Survey? Which survey? :=
If nobody does it, that sends a clear enough message to management!

[monster330]

You do those learning modules?

Why?

[cxorcist]

Froggy,

Since I don't fly the 400, I think I'm safe from the Bus.

I appreciate the name calling. Glad to read I hit the nail on the head:)

Enjoy your weekend!!! Don't spend all your time on Learner's World.

[DropKnee]

Ash, your a donkey. How is that for grammar? Simple and easily understood.

[monster330]

Ask yourself this - Why has each pilot been issued with a unique identifier for their survey?

Under the guise of ensuring only one filled out per individual?

De-identified? Not a chance. There will be a tracking pixel in the html coding of this survey, and each result will be checked against the individual.

To assume anonymity is to not understand Cx.

You do this survey, you may as well have written your name in texta across the top.

Sure as night follows day.

[SloppyJoe]

I think for most it is not fear of reprisal from the company, it's just plain old not giving a sh*t and seeing it as just more uncredited online garbage.

[XFR8]

Fill the bloody survey in and be honest.

If it's not confidential well they'll know exactly how you feel. Does that scare you?
If they ignore the results, big deal.
If they massage the results, big deal
If it's a con, big deal.
If it's for real, big deal.

Just fill the bloody thing in. Not filling in a survey just says you don't care, and if you don't care, stop wingeing on this forum.

[gipilot]

XFR ,I understand your point. But what you have to understand is that by filling it the company feels you appreciate this job, regardless of the result, do you see my point? Even if the result says that everyone's unhappy, they will see it as, well they took the time to show their concern for the company they care about so much.

But by NOT filing anything....now THAT sends them a message, by not going to auditorium briefings, by not asking any questions during forums, by not working on g days. So good luck with wasting time guys, at least at the end this will show the ones that are in doubt, that Cx DOES NOT CARE about you .

[Frogman1484]

Gipilot. I think you are mistaken. Do you really think they will see it your way if you do not fill it it?

Do you think the majority of the crews will not fill it in?...think again!

Don't you think it is better to send a clear message by ticking the box that says "I am not happy and I am looking to leave" rather than " If I don't fill it it in they will think that we think that they are a company that does not care!"

Ask yourself this question. Which one sends a clear message to management?

[geh065]

I think filling it out and saying what we think sends a much stronger message. Ignoring it will simply make them shrug and move on which of course may happen anyway.

Who cares if they know who we are? If we are scared of honestly saying what we think in their survey then we have no hope.q

[Frogman1484]

Well said geh065.:ok:

[CXChildLabour]

Frogman,

If people indeed honestly filled the survey out as you've suggested, how many do you think will actually say that "they are unhappy" AND "they are looking to leave". Definitely not those ex-A scalers who didn't sign RA65 and still have yet to leave, nor the ones that did sign over and hoping they could save up enough in the next couple years before their ex-wives take it all, nor the B scalers who are still banking on getting their 25 yrs housing, nor the C scalers born and bred in HK and know nothing about the outside World, nor the supposedly expat C scalers who still haven't got enough hours to go anywhere.

You'd be lucky to get 10% of the voting body to actually say they wanna leave, if even, especially now that they've told you each person has his/her own unique login. And because of your plea, the company gets to say "we know you guys are unhappy but not that many want to leave the BEST employer in HK, that pretty much sums it up for everyone working in Kitty City except for those of us reaping huge bonuses, so until your group actually tells us otherwise with their feet instead of their big mouths, take this crap offer and shut up in that dark little corner!"

[PanZa-Lead]

I am with Froggy on this one.

I have filled in the survey. I have been here in CX for 25yrs and have done a few surveys in my time. All the previous surveys were useless as there were NO questions for pilots to answer and the questions were always wishy washy. HOWEVER this survey is different and I enjoyed giving honest answers to some pretty direct questions as to what we think of management.

Every pilot should fill in this survey.

If you dont have the balls to fill it in (because you are scared management might find out who you are) then I guess you dont have the balls to do CC or any other action and hence you are useless to the pilot body.

The majority of crew I have flow with have filled it in and they were surprised at how direct and frank the ques were.

I am willing to bet that more than 90% of aircrew will fill it in as it is a one off chance to send a message to the entire company (not just FOP) that we are not happy. Yes I know...will it produce an outcome..most probably not...but it was fun filling it in anyway.

[Yonosoy Marinero]

We have already told the company and management what we want, through the AOA. Their answer was pretty clear and it was something to the tune of: F#ck you.

So, may anyone tell me what we can possibly expect from this survey, apart from the satisfaction of telling them off?

Is anybody seriously expecting any sort of positive return from this? We all know the management's stance, so why would that not be another bait with a hook in it?

[CXChildLabour]

PanZa,

Rather than being scared of management, it's more like not giving a crap what they ask of me cause they can take all these extra stuff they want done and shove it. First, I ain't paid extra to do this survey so it's up to me whether I want to volunteer in helping with their negotiation, which I don't see why I'd want to. Second, why do they need to know what "I" think when the union has already been telling them the exact thing numerous times for the last 4 months (and longer), were they living in a cave to not get it just by listening to what's being talked about on the street?

Instead of asking if guys have the balls to do CC when they're asked, how about if YOU have the balls to do CC when you are not even asked? Your contract says nothing about filling out surveys to help the company improve, why volunteer? Are you hired to do such a job? Are you paid to do such a job? I know what I'm hired and paid to do, and that's to do whatever is required to fly the airplane, as per my roster says within legal limits, safely from A to B and whatever happens in between, nothing more and nothing less. Do you know what yours say?

[CXChildLabour]

And if you really want to answer direct questions as to what you think about the management, here's an idea. Go to Kitty City 10 minutes early next time before you report, go up to 3rd floor and walk into one of their offices and give them your answer right there. See what they think then.

[Frogman1484]

Panza- Lead you are right in saying that most of the crews we fly with have answered the survey.

Not doing it and bitching on Pprune is not going to send a message. :ugh:

Yes you did send a clear message to management with the CC vote, why not send another one with the survey?

At the end of the day they could choose not to publish the pilot's body results but they will know what we think and how deep routed the dislike of management is.

[positionalpor]

ASR fatigue can be interpreted as sort of survey right?On a specific route we filed unnumbered ASR fatigue reports.Our "suggestion" was to put a third pilot for the segment.
What did we get to mitigate instead? Another bloody EXB in lovely India.
This came straight from the DFO. Why?
More ASR fatigue and 3 years later we got the 3 pilot.


Sorry my time is valuable, no survey for me

[PanZa-Lead]

Positionalpor

"Sorry my time is valuable, no survey for me"

Yeah..real valuable spending time on PPRUNE

[CXChildLabour]

Frogman,

Do you really think they care how upset you are with the management? Haven't you figured out how it works after all these years? There are two things they want to find out with this survey. 1) How many would actually leave if they screw you bad enough, with all honesty and no peer pressure and a unique login. 2) How much they could get away with in future negotiations.

I totally think they will take this survey seriously, they paid good money for it so they definitely want the results. Just not every single question they asked you though, definitely not the one about how happy/unhappy you are. Your happiness has no real value in their spreadsheet, everything else in that survey does, and that's the only thing they care. Remember, you are just a number that costs them more than others in order to get the aircraft from here to there.

[positionalpor]

PanZa,I Employ my time in the manner I choose to. Value is dictated by a number of parameters which I am not here to explain it to your poor mind.
Either way I do put a value in everything I do and that perhaps is writing few posts on this site.
You don' t mention any value on your posts yet you value the same thing.
In short; why the hell you open your mouth for?

[PanZa-Lead]

Positionalpor


"why the hell you open your mouth for?"

More of your valuable time wasted writing this crap!

I am not too sure if it is even english? Have another valuable drink:ugh:

[XFR8]

Another Fragrant Harbour Thread descends into farce. Well done Chaps.
:D

[broadband circuit]

For members of the AOA, there's an email from them this morning with guidance.

How about this time, the details of AOA correspondence not be posted here!

If the non-members want to know what's going on, then they can join.

[treboryelk]

Tony,

Your posts can be from one of six people if you fly for CX. The logical outcome is…..the shortlist either ends up having no-one on it or just you!

One of those outcomes will be rather amusing!

[sorvad]

Trouble with tonytylor is that he thinks he's clever ..just like when his alias was Yaeger, the reality is that he's just a juvenile illiterate tw@t

[sorvad]

Oh, and by the way tony....try to learn the difference between Bullocks and Bollocks....A Bullock is a castrated or young Male Bovine Animal....Bollocks is what you seem to spout every time you visit this forum

[Threethirty]

Does the survey say do you want a pay rise? Nah thought not.

[Frogman1484]

Yes it does. It asks you if you think you are paid enough.:ok:

[cxorcist]

One question out of how many? Almost a hundred. Seems almost cursory.

[Frogman1484]

A lot more questions like that one.! 👍

[China Flyer]

I have just finished doing your survey (logged out at 1603 HKT, in case you want to use that info, together with my IP address to confirm my identity), and I have to say that it was great. I love my job, and really, really love Cathay.

Thank you so much.

[CX-HOR]

If the survey had been commissioned by the board of directors and was sent directly to them unedited, then I could see some value in doing it. But from the managers asking for a scorecard on them, with the ability of unlimited spin on the results and giving insight into what if anything we are happy with, in my own time, during a period of negotiations....
No thanks.

[chards]

The survey was written by a 747 sim instructor about 6 months ago.

[crwkunt roll]

Just as long as we are happy we can find things in the manuals.... How many variations of that question were there?

[Frogman1484]

There are two questions on our manuals:ok:

[Mill Worker]

We no longer have manuals (except in the aircraft).

[Synchronize]

I see from the latest postings that the survey deadline has Been extended
No real surprise there, obviously not enough pilots have completed the survey so they will give you more time together, with an assurance from the fleet office that as "with any survey, privacy and confidentially are very important."
Note that privacy is important but not guaranteed, If privacy is that important why give an identifying number for each crew member ?

[tiger321]

Why do you care about the privacy so much?

I would put my name on my survey if I had to. Grow a pair!

They have asked a bunch of questions and I answered them honestly. If they don't want to hear the truth then don't ask the questions. Simple really.

Most of my honest replies tended to be on the left side of the survey.

[crwkunt roll]

Other control questions... "Are you happy with your career choice" or "Are you happy in your job"...... Of course we are, otherwise we wouldn't do it. So, as most of us will agree with that basic all encompassing question.... the spin will be " Pilots are happy"...........

[Sqwak7700]

I think the only answers that are not in the left-most row (strongly disagree) are the answers to the 2-3 control questions used to make sure the survey was actually being read (such as "Are the manuals available to you? Are the manuals updated?") that obviously have nothing to do with the rest of the survey. These control questions are not even subjective, so the answers have to be "agree" or "strongly agree."

Really? Are the manuals really "Available" to you? They are mostly electronic, I never received my company manual reading device, did you?

And are they updated? Some of our manuals still show tail numbers that have been parked. Many aircraft fly around with old manuals until someone gets to update them through HKG. That would not fly in many first world regulatory environments.

I think we are lucky that we are not ramp checked with a manual audit from these countries, otherwise we might have some explaining to do.:hmm:

[MrClaus]

The reason Cathay wants you to do this survey is nothing to do with picking out individuals and crucifying them later or alternatively, that they've done a 180 degree turn from all past behavior and suddenly care what you think.

If you have a look at what is going on in the data analysis field the big rage now is all about metadata and what you an derive from that. ie Think Snowden and the now not so secret NSA program. The unique password is not about your individual identity. It is about which group you are in. It tells them whether you are based, HK on expat conditions, HK on local conditions etc. they can then derive what each group cares about in relation to the other groups and apply the findings to their well worn divide and conquer strategy. That is why you should not do this survey. As others have said, there is no coincidence this is all happening halfway through these conveniently long negotiations.