C182 v Cherokee 6

[marioair]

Sorry for dusting down a discussion that's probably already been done to death, but given fuel prices and that i now have my licences and ratings back, I'd welcome views on the following. I live in south east London and am looking to move up from renting the usual pa28/172 to either a cherokee 6 or 182 as my primary a/c (probably not quite ready to take the jump into equity share). My criteria

1) cost - £/hour wet
2) distance from me by car (se3)
3) cost - £/mile at usual cruise setting.

I know Stapleford has a 182 for rent and there used to be a c6 at white Waltham but I can't find any rental prices for the latter or anywhere else for that matter?

[Desert185]

Well, if its a 300hp Six, the fuel burn will be more than the 182. Both nice airplanes, though. The 300 horse is actually more comparable to a 206.

[marioair]

I'm guessing id have to compare the 260hp model for it to be a fair comparison.

[tmmorris]

PFT at Kidlington has a Cherokee 6:

Pilot Flight Training Current Price List (http://www.pilotflighttraining.com/prices.html)

£209/hour

[marioair]

Thanks. A bit too far from south east London.

[piperarcher]

Have you considered a group share in either? In the end, these would increase your options of finding a machine in this category to fly/hire, and ultimately reduce the per hour costs.

[marioair]

I have but (a) can't find one! And (b) am in that grey zone where renting vs share is financially not an obvious decision based on hours I do.

[wsmempson]

Is this what you were looking for??

Aircraft Rates - West London Aero ClubWest London Aero Club (http://www.wlac.co.uk/wlac/aircraft-rates/)

[Desert185]

Good Lord Almighty! Those rates would ground me. One can only imagine the burden of extra costs were I to own an aircraft there vs here.

Seriously?

[Falcons11]

@Desert185

Where do you fly and how much do you pay?
I am looking to learn and those price are what I see around west London :uhoh:

[Mach Jump]

Seriously?

Yes. I'm afraid so. See how lucky you are?

You live in a land where you pay the same for a gallon of Avgas as we pay for a litre! :eek: (A litre is just about the same as a US quart)


MJ:ok:

[glendalegoon]

I have quite a bit of time in cherokee six types.

And a few hours in the C182


I much prefer the Cherokee six and its offspring (saratoga etc).

More comfortable, more passengers etc.

AS to comparing the C182 to a Cherokee Six with the 260 hp engine, it really isn't fair as there are very few of the 260's out there and they will be very, very old.

So, it all depends on the flying you do. Money must be put aside for a moment anyway.

Will you be flying from unimproved fields? (gravel etc) The 182 might be better, but then the 180 would be even better!

But just regular flying the roominess and flexibility as to payload, the Cherokee Six should win out.

Good luck.

Take a lesson in both and see which one you like better. Club seating in back is nice for the passengers.

[marioair]

Does anyone have some figures for

Hour rental rate (wet)
Fuel consumption
Cruise speed

For the 182 versus C6-300? I'm guessing the c177rg might fit between the two somewhere?

My usual profile would be 3 or 4px plus bag, a few hours of fuel. No need for excessively short field performance but perhaps 800m grass upwards.

[RobertL]

Both aircraft benefit from being flown at FL60 plus which in the UK typically means airways.

For low level VFR would suggest the 182 uses 50 litres per hour, cruises at 120 -125 KTAS, and rents for around £230-250 per hour wet. Full throttle at FL80 and leaned it improves to 40-45 lph, and 130-135 KTAS.

Ensure you get a good checkout in particular technique for landing the 182 when at a forward CofG.

There are syndicate 6-300 in the London area and may be worth checking G-Info for London syndicate owned Sixes and approaching the owners.

[marioair]

For low level VFR would suggest the 182 uses 50 litres per hour, cruises at 120 -125 KTAS, and rents for around £230-250 per hour wet. Full throttle at FL80 and leaned it improves to 40-45 lph, and 130-135 KTAS.

Do you have comparative figures for a typical 6-300?

[Tinstaafl]

Why would the fuel consumption be greater at lower altitudes? Are you not leaning? Piston engine fuel consumption is most significantly effected by HP. Set the same HP, get the same fuel flow. Presuming you're trying to compare equal power, of course.

[RobertL]

Tinstaafl fair point - but practically if you want 125 knots you may have a higher setting low level, and renters don't seem to lean down low. The engine is also a bit more efficient at full throttle, at full throttle altitudes with a power setting of around 65%.

Ideally the 182 should be leaned whenever below 75 %, including taxying.

No experience of a 6-300, but expect similar performance for another six-ten litres per hour. It is fuel injected so fuel consumption per hp may be a bit better.

[Sam Rutherford]

You can use ours for 'one-off' trips if you like.

C182 with six seats, SMA engine:

40L/hour of JET (about 80p/litre), giving 135-140kts and a range of over 900nm.

or 27L/hr, giving 120kts and a range of almost 1100nm.

Both ranges with a 45 minute reserve.

Longest flight I have personally made was 920nm, done in 7.5hrs (5-10kt headwind throughout) and landed with just under an hours fuel remaining. From South Africa to Angola without stopping in Namibia!

Cheers, Sam.

[marioair]

Sam - where is it based!

A xix seat 182----are you sure?

[India Four Two]

Club seating in back is nice for the passengers.

Not always. I've found that rearward-facing seats make me much more prone to airsickness.

[glendalegoon]

so trade with the other pax...after all they don't want a lap full of vomit now do they?

[marioair]

New EASA ppl exam question:
If you are cruising at 135kts with a 10kt headwind,and the rear facing passenger vomits, at what IAS does it strike the passenger opposite.

[Sam Rutherford]

Um, yes, sure it has six seats!


Based Brussels and Cape Town (most flights are between those two points).


Cheers, Sam.

[glendalegoon]

I've read that some C182s are equipped with two TINY extra seats making the total 6. don't for a second think you will get 6 full sized adults into this plane.

if you want a comparable cessna try the 206 or retractable 210. otherwise the cherokee six is really pretty nice

[Sam Rutherford]

Correct, the combined weight in last row is 54kgs (so two kids or one small adult). But then, how many 6 seat planes can take 6 adults and actually fly somewhere useful?

Ours can fly 4 adults and 2 kids for over 500nm (with an hour's reserve)...

Cheers, Sam.



PS sorry, bit enthusiastic about our plane sometimes! ;)

[bartonflyer]

And of course you can get a 7th seat for the Cherokee6 - it's a child seat that fits in between the two seats in the middle row!

[wsmempson]

A bit of detail on the Cherokee 6/ Saratoga family of aircraft;

An early C6 300 (like G-PECK, which I used to own) has a useful load of 1,400lbs. So, six 180lb adults = 1,080lbs, with 380lbs left for fuel and bags. 4hrs plus vfr reserves. A real six seater.

An early Saratoga (like G-GIPC which I currently own) has a useful load of 1,300lbs. So six adults with 280lbs left over for bags and fuel. 3hrs endurance, plus vfr reserves. Not quite as good, but still an 'honest' six-seater.

Then you get to late Saratoga's, fully laden with kit, and the sums start to fall apart, as you're down at a useful load of 1,100lbs, so you either need to be flying to the field next-door, or carrying super-models!

[Sam Rutherford]

Seven seats, I didn't know that!

Easily found, or rarer than a mermaid's teeth? :)

[bartonflyer]

Seven seats, I didn't know that!

Easily found, or rarer than a mermaid's teeth? :)

Honestly don't know, ours was the only one I've ever seen, but it went with the aircraft when the group broke up!

This conversation (from another place) FLYER Forums ? View topic - Piper Saratoga (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84764) gives a little more details

BTW I fully endorse the 300HP option - If you're going for something that will carry 6 people + luggage + fuel then get the oomph you need :ok:

[glendalegoon]

I've seen the 7 seater six

it all depends on what you want. do you want an extra installed oxygen bottle, autopilot etc or strip it.

cherokee six, /saratoga

original lance (no comment on T tail lance, though its a monster) isinteresting too