BAC 1-11 ZH763 Engine Runs Newquay 19th April 2014

[mrshubigbus]

There are now some videos of the engine run on Saturday 19th April available to view on You Tube.


BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 1 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 2 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 3 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 4 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 5 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 6 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 7 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 8 - YouTube

BAC 1-11 ZH763 Part 9 - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_F16I0m6k4#t=94


Enjoy a very special experience!


Peter

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Is it airworthy?

Used to be a common sound on the Apron at EGCC. The mighty Spey winding up. I can almost smell the kerosene!

[Ivan aromer]

Ah the dreaded CSDS whine.

[chevvron]

I liked the weird sound of the starter motor winding down after the engine lit up.

[Chris Scott]

Thanks, mrshubigbus. Yes, chevvron, thereby hangs a few tales. The CSDS drive-shaft was fairly easy to shear, particularly if one was resorting to "milking" the HP-cock in an attempt to avoid over-temperature (of EGT) during start.

For the uninitiated, the (unique?) feature of the Spey is that the AC generator's CSD (constant-speed drive, to maintain 400Hz on the AC electrics), driven by the accessory gearbox on the N2 (HP) spool, is also used in the opposite sense - to enable the air-starter to turn the N2 spool for engine start. If the air-start pressure is poor, the N2 may peak at an N2 rpm below the recommended value for opening the HP cock (i.e., introducing the fuel). Opening the HP cock then results in a more rapid rise in EGT than normal and - if the max EGT is likely to be exceeded - the HP cock has to be closed before the limit is reached. However, some pilots (and dare I say engineers?) would then try to reopen the HP cock immediately the EGT started to fall. The resulting change in torque sometimes sheared the CSDS drive shaft.

Poor air-start pressure may result from a knackered APU, or (if the APU is u/s) an external-air truck that is not man enough for the job. Like many engines of its generation, the Spey is inclined to hot starts on cold, damp, winter's mornings. Damp igniters can delay light-up, and a wet start may result.

[joy ride]

Great footage! If they ever fire up the VC10 in the background I hope you will be there to film it too!

[Chris Scott]

Looks like the 4 Conways have been removed, joy ride, so let's hope they will reinstall them in due course.

[joy ride]

Exactly, and I hope mrshubigbus is there with his camera "if and when" !

[Jhieminga]

That's probably not going to happen, the CAF did not purchase the four Conways along with the VC10 airframe.

Great videos!!

[Chris Scott]

Hi Jhieminga,

'Fraid I lost track of that story. Who now owns the Conways, and what is their future? Razor blades, perhaps?

[Jhieminga]

Hi Chris,

When the CAF bought ZA148 they had the option of purchasing the engines as well. I cannot remember the exact figures but I seem to recall that they were a couple of thousand quid each. After its last landing the engines were removed and must have travelled back to Brize or to Bruntingthorpe. They were most likely sold on to a surplus dealer, I don't know where they ended up I'm afraid.

[Allan Lupton]

Quote
For the uninitiated, the (unique?) feature of the Spey is that the AC generator's CSD (constant-speed drive, to maintain 400Hz on the AC electrics), driven by the accessory gearbox on the N2 (HP) spool, is also used in the opposite sense - to enable the air-starter to turn the N2 spool for engine start.

Unique to the Spey installation in the 1-11 I think!
We certainly used a conventional CSD and separate starter in the Trident installation and although I don't know, I think Fokker did the same in the F28.

[Wodrick]

I agree and yes I confirm F28 conventional.

In practice, I think many of my colleagues will agree, the CSDS was a bad idea.
Didn't weigh much less than a conventional CSD either !

[dixi188]

Some BAC One-Elevens that went to the USA had a different starter and separate CSD for the generator. No special noise on start.

I remember working nights at Gatwick in the early 80's and there would be 2 or 3 departures in the early hours. On a still summer night I think you could hear a 1-11 start up from Horsham and then the take-off would be heard all over west sussex.

I think this last 1-11 and VC-10 should be kept flying to show people who complain about noise what real noise was.;)

[Chris Scott]

Sorry guys, that was sloppy of me. It should have read:
"...the (unique?) feature of the Spey on the One-Eleven is..."

Jhieminga,
Regarding the VC10 Conways, that's a great shame. I for one would have been willing to put up some cash to help sponsor one of them. That's no criticism of the museum, which has done so well to rescue the airframe. Pity, though. The hum of the 4 Conways at idle - perhaps in combination with the A/C packs - is uniquely evocative of ops from divers airfields worldwide. And the sound of them at full chat is glorious.

dixi188,
"I think this last 1-11 and VC-10 should be kept flying to show people who complain about noise what real noise was."

Many a true word... And to think we used to do our base traininng at LGW on both types. That included, of course, the routine S/E G/As on the One-Eleven, and G/As using three, two, or even one engine on the VC10.

As for the noise at Horley in a westerly wind, I remember having my first recurrent audiogram at (Dr) Ron Wambeek's house, circa 1971. He had a rudimentary acoustic booth, IIRC, but the sound of Speys on take-off was no match for it. Hopeless! Years later, the general consensus was that the hush kit was a waste of space.

I've never heard a noise campaigner admit that, on take-off, a B777 is radically quieter than a One-Eleven. At peak times, there must have been nearly as many movements at Gatwick per hour in those days as there are today.

[Jhieminga]

Regarding the VC10 Conways, that's a great shame. I for one would have been willing to put up some cash to help sponsor one of them. That's no criticism of the museum, which has done so well to rescue the airframe. Pity, though. The hum of the 4 Conways at idle - perhaps in combination with the A/C packs - is uniquely evocative of ops from divers airfields worldwide. And the sound of them at full chat is glorious.
On the plus side, both ZA150 at Dunsfold and ZD241 at Bruntingthorpe have a full set of Conways and have ran all four since their retirement. Here's a short video of ZD241 exercising the flight controls with all four running (31 March 2014).
Super VC10 ZD241 G-ASGM with all RR Conways running. - YouTube

And here's ZA150 moving under her own power in December 2013:
ZA150 brief taxi - 13 December 2013 - YouTube

[buttrick]

Having had the pleasure of working at Thumrait for eleven years, it was always a pleasure to hear the blue note as the 1-11 descended to land, particularly if you were sat in the terminal.
Does anybody know the origin of the blue note!!