Weight for flight training

[Flyer_Jay]

I am hoping to start learning to fly for an NPPL in the next couple of months.


I am 6ft tall but am overweight at 19st.

I am perfectly able bodied and have no other medical issues, I am currently losing weight - will this prevent me starting lessons?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance

[Jan Olieslagers]

Get your medical in order first. You could take lessons now, only need to have the medical for solo. But if the medical eventually fails, any lessons you have taken will have been a waste of time and (a good deal of) money.

[foxmoth]

I do not see any reason losing weight will stop you, you may need to look at what aircraft the schools around you have - ask if you can sit in their aircraft to get an idea of which suits you for your size - I think you can probably rule out the Cessna152:}

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

You'll be fine in a 172.

[Armchairflyer]

+1 regarding the advice of Jan: get your medical first! Spending a lot of money and getting bitten by the flying bug only to find out that you cannot acquire a license for medical reasons would be bitter both financially and psychologically. Losing weight will very likely not be a problem for the medical and/or taking flying lessons, quite the opposite, but your AME (aeromedical examiner) will tell you everything about that.

Assuming that you pass the Class 2 or LAPL medical (these are probably sufficient for your objectives), depending on the weight of your flight instructor, it is possible that you have to train in a four-seat aircraft due to W&B (weight & balance) reasons (at least for some time), which is "merely" a financial problem. Up to about 15 stone you should be largely OK with a two-seater, but your future club/instructor will inform you. You can also play around with the two C150 on Aviation Weight And Balance Calculators (http://www.csgnetwork.com/aviationwbconverters.html) (N6518G and N48938) and some typical four-seat trainers (e.g., C172 or PA 28) for an idea of how your weight might relate to eligible aircraft types (cockpit space let aside, the 150 data also probably give you a reasonable estimate for other two-seat training airplanes like the C152, DV20, A211 etc.).

My advice would be: continue your losing weight and make an appointment with an AME to get your medical. Then take a trial lesson and check whether you like it. Then go for your NPPL :).

Blue skies
ACF

[effortless]

Nppl medical isn't as stringent as ppl. You need to be certified as fit to drive an hgv. Ask your GP.


I'm very heavy and I've flown all sorts. The biggest restriction in my experience is room. I used to fly with another lumpy bloke in a 152. Ok we never filled it above tabs and top of climb seemed a long way away but we did it. I've flown little skyrangers two up and they were fine too. I can give you a few stone.

[Flyer_Jay]

Thanks for your replies. All very helpful.

I am loosing weight, and as I want to do NPPL, the medical is not as stringent.

Good to read its not totally ruled out!

:)

[fa2fi]

I'll openly admit that my weight gets out of control at times and I sympathies with you. The main thing I see with this situation is you are too heavy to board a PA28 as it has a 17st limit and unless your instructor is pint sized, performance on a C150 will be very limited, and not much better in a C152. These machines still form the backbone of the GA fleet but I'd imagine these fancy microlights they have these days will be more restrictive.

Look up VLCDs. It's a very quick and safe way to lose weight. You would be able to get on a PA28 in less than eight weeks and performance on a Cessna shouldn't be a problem. It's a pain losing weight, but this is the only thing that works for me. Anyway, that's way beyond the scope of this thread.

Good luck with your flight training. Hope you enjoy it. And I wish you luck on your weight loss journey too.

[adambsmith]

Where is the reference that a PA28 has a 17st limit please?

[fa2fi]

Don't have a reference must have been a club reg. Was told it was to do with weight on the flaps during boarding. I've checked an old POH and an online one and the only reference was to ensuring the flap was fully retracted in order to support weight.

Out of interest are there any other clubs with a weight limit for boarding the PA28? It's been a while since I instructed, and I'm quite certain I didn't just pluck this our of thin air!

[fa2fi]

Just been in touch with a mate who is still there at the flying club and it is a Flying Order reg and not a Piper limitation.

[Armchairflyer]

Not familiar with the PA 28, but maybe it does have such a weight limitation. In the DV20 Katana, for instance, maximum weight per seat is 110kg.

[cumulusrider]

Not sure about powered aircraft but most gliders have a seat weight limit of 110kg (242lb). This is independant of the W&B and is to do with the seat belts or mountings. Also on a diet as I am too heavy to fly at the moment

[effortless]

Crikey,I guess that I know a few pa28 owners who should jack it in then. The only time I was ever kept out of an airframe for weight was a glider. I ended up ditching the parachute and was allowed in. :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

A few PA28s are very nose heavy, so a 17 stone limit might just be a simple rule of thumb that works in some club aeroplanes.

Microlights and gliders usually have a limit - typically somewhere between 86kg and 130kg, depending upon aeroplane. Light aircraft are actually designed to lower seat loads than either but then this is never shown as a limit. That's just a historical anachronism.

Ultimately it is overall weight and especially CG position that really matters. The reality of that is that somebody weighing 19 stone should probably stick to 4 seat aeroplanes like the Cessna 172 or Piper PA28. These cost a little more than a 2 seater, but are perfectly good training aeroplanes.

G

[FleetFlyer]

Aged 26 you won't have any problems getting the NPPL medical. Its a declaration that your GP signs, usually without even examining you, and its basically a bit of paper that means he is unaware of anything in your medical history that will incapacitate you whilst you're flying.

An LAPL is a bit closer to a class 2 medical in that there is a proper examination, with various prodding, poking and measuring and checking your wee for evidence of diabetes. If you manage to get your weight down to 15 stone then at your age there won't be a problem in passing this.

The LAPL is something to be aware of because to fly EASA aircraft(Cessna 172, PA 28 and most other stuff with a CofA rather than on a permit), which is what the majority of hire aircraft will be, you'll need an LAPL beyond April 2015. If you're still on the large side by then and you're hiring club aircraft to fly in, then you'll definitely need an LAPL. However, if you go down the 'permit to fly' based aircraft route then you won't need an LAPL and will probably spend less per hour on your flying.

FYI, an NPPL SSEA can be converted to an LAPL with only the need to pass the medical and submit the form to the CAA.

[Steve6443]

The main thing I see with this situation is you are too heavy to board a PA28 as it has a 17st limit and unless your instructor is pint sized, performance on a C150 will be very limited, and not much better in a C152. These machines still form the backbone of the GA fleet but I'd imagine these fancy microlights they have these days will be more restrictive.


Never heard so much :yuk:in my life. I am 17st (6 foot 4) and regularly fly PA28s. The only issue I ever had was weight and balance in a PA28R-180 - and this was due to CofG too far forward so I had to add some ballast in the back to go "full fuel" by asking a friend to sit in the back, rather than the front.... I have also flown a C152 2 up - it's all just a matter of calculating your weight and balance correctly......

[cockney steve]

With the cost of GA being what it is, start flying and you'll have no spare cash to waste on troughing pies and Marsbars......hence weight-loss will be automatic.....Oh, and the Adrenaline-rushes from flying will also help. :}

[J.A.F.O.]

Fleet?

Why 15 stone for the LAPL medical?

[Andy_P]

Not sure what the UK is like, but I passed a class 2 medical here in Aus. That is the one with the poking and prodding etc. I am not quite at your weight, but not far off it. 6ft and pushing 110kg here. Admittedly, I was not this heavy when I started training, but the reason I took up flying was because I broke my knee pretty badly in a trail bike accident, and have since packed on a lot of weight because I cant do much exercise.

Anyway, you will be fine in a C172, and I have done a 3 up trip with me in the right seat of a PA28 and weight was not an issue. 2 up for training wont be a problem. Likewise, for a non commercial medical I doubt you will have an issue provided you dont have any other major medical problems, but then again it may be different in the UK.

[foxmoth]

A lot of talk here about weight, yes a consideration, but for most light aircraft (not talking VLA or microlights) this is doable, though you may need to be careful with fuel loads, for larger people though you also need to look at how you actually fit in the aircraft, you might fit in (say) a C150, but it will not be the most comfortable!:}

[sea oxen]

At 6'2" and 14 1/2 stone, having an instructor who was similarly (and perhaps even a bit better) constructed was a great distraction in a C152. This isn't helpful if you are as lousy at flying as I am.

The lessons where he wasn't available and he was substituted with someone smaller always went more smoothly. With the benefit of hindsight, the extra spent on a 172 would have been worth it.

[Big Pistons Forever]

At 6'2" and 14 1/2 stone, having an instructor who was similarly (and perhaps even a bit better) constructed was a great distraction in a C152. This isn't helpful if you are as lousy at flying as I am.

.

So basically the aircraft was over gross weight before you put any gas in it....sure nice to see a flight school setting a good example for its students :rolleyes:

At the school I occasionally teach at any instructor that deliberately flew a lesson with the aircraft over its certified max gross weight, would be immediately fired.

[Pirke]

At my school the 150 would also be flown overweight. Two adults and full fuel. Rationale when I mentioned this after learning about M&B: a few kg overweight doesn't bring the plane down, running out of fuel on cross country does. Center of gravity was within limits. The runway was very long, so we would already be at a few hundred feet before the end of the runway. Of course on paper everything was within legal limits and if we would get an inspection they would never check the remaining fuel... As a fresh student I believed their story, and without proper leaning it used much more fuel than the book said. A dubious safety measure.

[foxmoth]

So basically the aircraft was over gross weight before you put any gas in it

Well, looking at this example Weight & Balance Calculator Cessna 152 - Javascript (http://www.internationalflyingclub.org/src/wb152.html)
This gives a useful load of 520lbs, 2x 14.5 stone =406lbs, so not over gross! In fact this leaves 114 lbs for fuel ~ 18USG, not full tanks, but certainly more than enough for a couple of hours plus and shows it can be done, I know there will be some with a higher DOW, but even these should be workable with care - but it still does not mean it will be a roomy learning environment!

[FleetFlyer]

@ JAFO

15 stone because at a sensible weight such as that, rather than 19 stone, you would be less likely to show evidence of the onset of type 2 diabetes in the wee test, which would make passing the medical more difficult (not impossible though) and you would find yourself more likely to have conditions imposed such as solo flight only.

[J.A.F.O.]

@FleetFlyer

So, are you saying that your figure of 15 stone is just an arbitrary figure picked because it seemed as though being 15 stone might offer less chance of developing type 2 diabetes much, much later in life than 19 stone, or does the figure actually have some bearing on a 26 year old going for a LAPL medical?

[sea oxen]

BPF
At the school I occasionally teach at any instructor that deliberately flew a lesson with the aircraft over its certified max gross weight, would be immediately fired.
I heartily agree. We usually ran with 15 - 17 gallons - never any more. The one time I asked if we should fill up (this was at 14gal), it was denied. By foxmoth's link's reckoning, this should have been in limits.

It didn't seem relevant to ask the instructor what he weighed exactly, so it was taken on trust that W & B were in order - given that both our lives were in his hands. Luckily, he was a fine and patient instructor, but he must have felt similarly cramped in the little 152. There wasn't much swing room to hit me over the head with the fire extinguisher when I did something stupid. Which was frequently.