NATS dress code?

[Squawk 7500]

Does anyone know what the latest is on this? I remember them trying to introduce one at Swanwick a while ago, and now I hear they want one for NSL only (it will supposedly improve safety!)

[1985]

They did introduce one at Swanwick but it was only about not wearing shorts, sandals and t-shirts with offensive pictures/words on them. How it improves safety though....

[ZOOKER]

Apart from night-duties, jeans, trainers and T-shirts do not belong in ATC operations-rooms.
And don't even get me started on 'track-suit bottoms'.

[SThor]

Apart from night-duties, jeans, trainers and T-shirts do not belong in ATC operations-rooms.

Does a shirt and tie make one a better controller? More composed perhaps?

I can understand T-shirts with "inappropriate" text/pictures but what does it matter what pants one wears? :rolleyes:

[confused atco]

Does a shirt and tie make one a better controller

Jury is still out.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Full marks ZOOKER....

[Una Due Tfc]

Collared short sleeve shirt and brown trousers do me just fine. A shirt and tie is for the arse kissers

[ZOOKER]

Your 'pants' are obviously a personal choice, but if you are a professional, employed by a 'global leader', (as U.K. ATC staff are often perceived), then your external attire should reflect that accolade.

[Una Due Tfc]

The only time I care about what people who I don't know or work with care about my professionalism is when I'm plugged in. If visitors think that my colleagues and I should wear office attire, that's their problem. I dress the same in work as I do in the golf course, it's within the rules, and it saves me having to change in the clubhouse :-)

[eastern wiseguy]

Zooker and HD

Why does it make the slightest difference? If there are dignitaries due to visit then smarten up. On a day to day operational stint when the ONLY people I saw were unit management (are ties in this week?.....ooo does Richard wear one? ) and the security bod as I got frisked for yoghurt,it made no difference what an operational person wore.A controller or support staff should be allowed to wear what is COMFORTABLE and does NOT impinge on their ability to do the job.

When I started in 1978 there was a preponderance of ex RAF officers as ATCO's . They brought their choice of work wear which dated from THEIR era...shirts ties and jackets......this is almost 40 years later.....they are gone.....those attitudes to dress should be gone too.

[Burnie5204]

I'm not an ATCer but I believe that ATCOs and ATCAs should wear whatever they want (within reason - no offensive text etc.) as they need to be calm, collected and relaxed/unstressed for when the brown stuff hits the spinny thing and to me that starts with being comfortable. If you aren't comfortable then you can't be as calm and relaxed as you could be. Especially when you have to concentrate for up to 2 hours solid at some units and it could all go mammaries vertical at 1:59 into your stint.

[Talkdownman]

The Watch Supervisor might let one take one's jacket off if it's hot. Tweed sports jackets might be acceptable at the weekend...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Perhaps it could be explained to me why someone who comes to work looking like a hobbledehoy turns up for a validation board wearing suit, shirt and tie?

[obwan]

I fail to see why you have to dress like a tramp to be calm and relaxed, most airline pilots seem to perform reasonably well in times of crisis while wearing what could be described as formal attire,even to the point of wearing POLISHED shoes. One clown at a unit I was at used to wear a t shirt with FCUK emblazoned on it, and yes I do know what it stands for.:ugh:

[elandel]

That doesn't tend to happen these days Bren....

[obwan]

LFAJ
Dont know when you were on an airliner last but the people doing the important stuff have been doing it behind a locked door since 9/11 and as far as I am aware nobody appears in full uniform when important information has to be conveyed.:ugh:

[Una Due Tfc]

I think there is a healthy medium between "dressing like a tramp", and wearing the full suit. A polo neck and trousers are perfectly acceptable IMHO, even a plain t-shirt in the summer. To be honest I wouldn't even care if one of my colleagues wore tracksuit bottoms, trainers and a hoodie, some regularly do on night shifts (pesky youngsters eh?). All are competent controllers, though I would never say that to their faces:}

[Married a Canadian]

jeans, trainers and T-shirts do not belong in ATC operations-rooms

I don't notice any difference in the "quality" of ATC when jeans, shirts and trainers are worn in Canada..compared to when I was in the UK and shirts and ties were the norm.
It might make you look more professional, which is fine, but it dosen't really affect one's capacity to do the job.
I checked out in the UK wearing a tie. I checked out in Canada wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Big deal.

[Standard Noise]

"A polo neck and trousers are perfectly acceptable"
Slacks dear boy, slacks. Plain 'trousers' are never acceptable.


There was talk of a dress code a few months back but given that I wear chinos most of the time I couldn't give a monkeys. I steadfastly refuse to stop wearing my 'Titanic - built by the Irish, sunk by the English' t-shirt. On no account should the natives be allowed to forget their act of wanton vandalism.:}

[zonoma]

The only people who care what we wear are the "suits". Says it all. Give me my shorts and flipflops any day, I'll certainly sport them at every given chance within the confines of the "new rules", and walk in, control in my usual manner, and walk out slightly more comfortable and relaxed. The days of the "shirt/tie" brigade are long gone, unless you want to kiss ass and jump up a ladder :ugh:

[expediteoff]

The only time you'll ever catch me wearing a" t-shirt, shorts and flip flops" to work is the day they tell me they're not allowed and that they've made a dress code compulsory!

[Una Due Tfc]

Zonoma, I couldn't agree more :D

[whitelighter]

Silly silly rules

[Squawk 7500]

The thing that bothers me is that it seems to be just the NSL side of the business being targetted. If it's 'unsafe' for twr guys to wear trainers then how is it any safer at a centre?!

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

Now I know NATS ATCOs at large will consider this the last bastion of the free world and their human rights, but come on guys, get a grip.

There's gonna be some very hard battles to fight in the coming years. But what you wear when you walk in the building isn't one of them...:ugh:

[Squawk 7500]

Best to get some practise in now for the upcoming battles then

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

I think that ship sailed along time ago.

If the collective ATCO body can get more excited about their jeans and hoodies than some of the pay, pension, and WP ballots in recent years then that says it all. Management must be laughing.

[Una Due Tfc]

Apologies for my lack of etiquette regarding "Slacks". But seriously, what we wear (within reason) should not be an issue.

I hope you will be wishing my team well on Sunday BTW

Stand up and fight :}

[Talkdownman]

If it's 'unsafe' for twr guys to wear trainers then how is it any safer at a centre?!
Ah, so nats inconsistencies prevail then…
Rules for the airports, rules for the centres… :rolleyes:

[ZOOKER]

I think it's fairly important what the staff in the centres wear too. Both of them have 'viewing galleries' and invited guests frequently look in.
Does Gin and Tonic still have 'uniforms'?

[jackieofalltrades]

"Well, at the time of the incident I was distracted because these new dress shoes I have to now wear were very uncomfortable and bothering me...."

Another of the if-it's-not-broke-don't-fix-it rules being brought in. Judging by the responses on here and from what I've heard in the rest room, I would say the dress code IS something very important to the vast majority of controllers.
I agrees totally with no offensive logos, ripped jeans etc, but see no reason why jeans/shorts and a t-shirt should not be allowed if that is what the controller feels comfortable in. And by all means, those that like to wear shirt and trousers, feel free to do so.

[Mantovani]

The only people who care what we wear are the "suits". Says it all. Give me my shorts and flipflops any day, I'll certainly sport them at every given chance within the confines of the "new rules", and walk in, control in my usual manner, and walk out slightly more comfortable and relaxed. The days of the "shirt/tie" brigade are long gone, unless you want to kiss ass and jump up a ladder



It may well be that kind attitude that gave the suits at the Airline Group the idea of controllers paying for their own training.

They simply do not hold you in high regard any more and I have to say I don't blame them one little bit.

[2 sheds]

but see no reason why jeans/shorts and a t-shirt should not be allowed if that is what the controller feels comfortable in

The good reason being that, as Mantovani says, the suits and any visitors are not exactly going to hold you in very high regard if you look like a navvy. Comfortable does not have to equal scruffbag; this just seems to be inverted snobbery. I wonder if there is any occasion for which these people would actually manage to dress appropriately.

2 s

[ZOOKER]

It's an interesting one.
When 'Red' arrived, it was all open-neck shirts, smart casual. I have the pictures saved somewhere. Suits and ties were not the most comfortable kit to do the job in, so, thumbs-up for 'Red'.
When our unit was involved in re-location, the 're-location team' arrived to 'assimilate us', all smartly turned out in purple polo-shirts, with an outline of the new work-place embroidered in silver. Very smart.
At the old workplace, an employee who became the training manager wore shiny shoes, chinos, and a shirt and tie.
On his return to operational work, trainers, a tee-shirt and what can only be described as 'builders pants', (baggy, misshapen trousers, with pockets for construction tools), were deemed appropriate.
At the new unit, a supervisor frequently came to work dressed like a 'schoolboy'. This would not be allowed in a bank, retail-outlet, airline, or on the stock-exchange or in a council/parliamentary workplace, etc.

[Squawk 7500]

How will any dress code be enforced though? If I pitch up in a pair of jeans will I get sent home again? That'll be one way to ensure a nice early stack :)

[ZOOKER]

Chap turned up in a 'bullfighting' tee-shirt on night shift many years ago.
No 'early stack', just a petrol bill for 15 miles home, (to change), and another 15 back to work. Nicely done in his 'break' though.

[terrain safe]

Mantovani. The idea of paying for your own training was floated many years before the Airline Group was even thought of.

All these pompous people spouting nonsense about poor dress really need to get a life. Supervisors etc should be at least smart casual, but otherwise does it really matter? Their 'poor' clothes probably cost a lot more than your smart 'slacks' :yuk::yuk::yuk:.

[Hempy]

Attire is about perception. If you are well dressed people automatically see that you are conscientious about your appearance and as such, by suggestion, other things - including your profession. This is important if you are trying to create an image about your professionalism to a customer, or a superior, but plugged in the only customers I need to prove my professionalism to are at the other end of a radio. I fail to see what an ATC wears to work has any bearing whatsoever on how well he/she does their job.

[Mantovani]

I find this attitude of we'll dress how we damn well like to be rather immature.

Board shorts and flip-flops are for the beach not the workplace. At best you look silly. The older ones look a little sad.

[obwan]

Interesting post from Mr Zooker about the "supervisor" who came to work dressed as a schoolboy, presumably because it helped him to feel more comfortable and relaxed in times of stress; and yes, supervisors can become stressed. I suppose the next logical step is some pratt will come in dressed in a schoolgirls uniform.:ugh:

[Talkdownman]

I'd have no objection to female staff attending in school uniform...

[ZOOKER]

It's a fun discussion and I have no real axe to grind, just some observations made over the years.
I started off with the jacket and tie culture, even while at CATC Hurn, I can't remember when we largely stopped wearing them, probably in the 1990s. I have never found a tie to be comfortable to wear anyway, so I was glad to go without. One of our STPOs would still wear a collar-and-tie to work on night-duties. I think a return to formal ops-room dress would be about as popular as the return of a smoking ops room.
A good point was made earlier though. I've just been reading the link on the other thread about EC driven cost-reduction, and a lot of 'stakeholders' are keen to see ATC staff paid less. Over the coming years, these holders of purse-strings will be visiting towers and looking through viewing-gallery windows. Notwithstanding the first-class service that ops-room staff provide, (about which they know little), these 'suits' will inevitably question why people dressed for the beach, golf-course or whatever, receive the remuneration that they do.

[PPRuNe Radar]

If any organisation wants to set a dress code, all they need to do is provide a uniform and make it a condition of employment to wear it. Simples.

[Una Due Tfc]

I seem to recall when the BBC visited LHR TWR recently all the staff wore NATS branded polo shirts? If that was acceptable last year....

[ZOOKER]

They looked quite smart too. The RIAT staff have a similar thing I believe.
I still have 2 NATS ties and a CAA tee-shirt.

[eastern wiseguy]

Ooh Prune Radar has EVENTUALLY done it.

A NATS supplied uniform. Now then ...let the BAND 5 gold scrambled egg rank indicators versus an ATCE boiler suit (white for the DTO naturally) versus a whatever for the ATSAs commence.

Or are we going to be all egalitarian in our outlook ....and wear casual polo shirts and chinos?

Seriously though. Two points.

Can NSL AFFORD to have another cost placed on it ? There will have to be at least TWO of everything supplied and replaced as they wear out,

And doesn't this twaddle raise its head every ten years or so? I survived thirty some years without one. I don't see why things have changed.

[Squawk 7500]

Uniform would be a disaster. Cheap polyester shirts and shiny trousers - no thanks!

As for RP2, they're not going to pay us less because we decide to wear jeans to work. That's a silly assumption.

[General_Kirby]

My headset is my uniform. This shows far more professionalism, integrity and responsibility than a cheap suit ever could. The visitors in suits need to understand this.

[HM79]

In the US we had this battle over dress code during our "white book" period (5-10 years ago). It was a management tool to exert authority and control. :\

The reaction of the atco's was anger. As the local union rep. I wore the same two neon yellow polo shirts for the entire period of the contract. I always wanted them to see where I was. If you treat people with respect and professionalism they will react and dress as such. Uniforms in the work place are found in fast food restaurants and petroleum transfer stations and may not accurately reflect the effectiveness of the workforce ie a facade. In air traffic control facades are not necessary.:D:D:D

[kcockayne]

When I was at LATCC (1971-'73) we had an ATCA on our watch (B) who wore a different (immaculate) suit to work every day. I think his name was Andy Price.
We also had me, who dressed quite shabbily, on occasion. We both got Cadetships. We also had other ATCAS (various states of dress) who got Cadetships.
Most of the selection was done by ex RAF etc. ATCOS - whose dress sense was "conservative" to say the least. Our state of dress did not seem to influence them unduly when it came to promoting people.
If it didn't bother them, why should senior people in today's NATS need to exercise their authority & predilections by introducing a "dress code" ?
Some of the best ATCOS NATS ever had came from those "unwashed & untidy" officers !

[Standard Noise]

"I hope you will be wishing my team well on Sunday BTW"


Certainly will, as will most Ulster supporters................................and if you're lucky, maybe a few of the D4 contingent too!

[Plazbot]

Does the dress code specify Stuffy Shirts or do some of you guys wear them by choice?

[Squawk 7500]

Not sure what the dress code will specify. I could live with a ban on bermuda shorts and flip flops but if they come after jeans it will be a very sad day.

[63000 Triple Zilch]

I spent a career being known for the way I dressed more than my abilities as a controller. I guarantee that whatever dress code NATS tried to impose shirt, tie etc. I could still come into work looking as if it had been a long night on the streets! It is impossible to be prescriptive over dress, only to say that it should be smart. ATCOs on my watch dressed in shorts and t shirts would certainly look smarter than myself in a scruffy worn shirt and trews!! Worzel:)

[chiglet]

When I worked in the Tower or Radar at Manch, I wore jeans and a polo shirt, IF however, I was working in AIS/Flt Briefing, I wore slacks and a smart short sleeved shirt......
because I was on Public view
If one worked at PATCC in the '60s/70s and you arrived without a tie, you were sent home [pay docked] to get one...... times have changed

[eastern wiseguy]

Imagine things changing over 50 years :ok:

[West Coast]

Board shorts and flip-flops are for the beach not the workplace. At best you look silly. The older ones look a little sad.

That's persons opinion.

The controllers I know at SOCAL TRACON often surf after working to release stress. Seems to work out ok. No ones swapped paint because they dressed comfortably.

[zonoma]

When I last wore my shorts and flipflops. we did a quick poll around a couple of sectors and the outcome was that I was probably "better presented" than 2/3rds of the ops room. It is all about perception, and personal opinion as West Coast says.

I love some of the comments these kinds of threads provoke. No one has said that there is more of a concern about attire than pay/pension/RP2/RP3 and it is quite easy to be focused on both at the same time. I've had the pleasure to be in the company of some of our European colleagues recently, have you seen what they wear in their workplace? Some of them are even managers, working in offices, WEARING JEANS :eek: Even when visiting NATS HQ!!!

Really, who cares? As long as attire is not offensive, why should someone be forced to wear a particular style?

[eyeinthesky]

Apart from the 'professional dress can display a professional attitude' debate (to which I subscribe but which which will never be resolved on this forum), one of the arguments I often hear for shorts and flip flops is that it is a hot day outside. In this unit at least (Swanwick), the temperature is a constant 21-23 degC 24/7, 365 days a year. The same individuals who use the weather as an argument for a certain casual attire in the summer strangely don't sit in snow boots, hat, scarf and gloves in the Ops Room when it is below freezing outside.

It would seem that the argument falls over at this point... perhaps it is more about wanting to cock a snook at management?

[obwan]

Becoming fed up with this now, can we have something else?:ugh:

[West Coast]

Eye in the sky

I would suggest its a matter of comfort, not having a go at anyone.

If I could fly in T shirt, shorts and flip flops, I would for comfort sake alone.

[Rwy in Sight]

Since you asked to move on maybe you can read what Aerbabe wrote (http://www.pprune.org/881295-post16.html) about 11 years ago about ATC and their choice of clothing.

Rwy in Sight

[obwan]

tres bon.:D

[Jwscud]

From the other side of the radio, I'm jealous. I'd fly in jeans and a rugby shirt or something if I could get away with it. Better than hunting around for black trousers and white shirts that aren't made of shiny cheap sandpaper which is all the "pilot outfitters" sell at stupid markups. You will find if you go to a sim session that we're all pretty casually turned out...

[Cuddles]

My ex GM told me to 'Dress for the job you want, not the job you have'

So far I've done 3 disciplinary hearings dressed as Batman.

[Lon More]

If any organisation wants to set a dress code, all they need to do is provide a uniform and make it a condition of employment to wear it. Simples.
Back when LATCC was still on North Side one of the ATCOs put in a claim for clothing damaged at work and requested a replacement item. He was issued with a long brown syoreman's coat.
Back in the 1960s word came down from on high in May/June that a summer dress code was in force, ties were no longer neccessary, sleeves could be rolled up and jackets hung over chairs. In the Autumn it was back to Civil Servant mode.
I remember one ATCA on the A side being admonished for his "slovenly appearance". The next daay he arrived in pin-stripe suit, bowler hat and rolled umbrella with a copy of the FT under his arm.

I can't remember ever hearing of a dress code anywhere but in NATS. It doesn't make better controllers, if people are comfortable they perform better. We had a rage for Hawiaan shirts one summer, brightened the Ops Room up no end

[Talkdownman]

Back in the 1960s word came down from on high in May/June that a summer dress code was in force, ties were no longer neccessary, sleeves could be rolled up and jackets hung over chairs
Whatever one wore then one's clothes still got 'kippered'…perish the thought if nats decree shirt and ties again. Would they also decree pipes and Woodbines?

[Lon More]

Whatever one wore then one's clothes still got 'kippered'…

I was very happy to be sent down to Sopley in 1969. No smoking in the Ops Room, only in the Rest Rooms and, judging by the fact they were permanent IMC, the toilets

[PDF]

Perfect uniform suggestion......

Air Traffic Limited Edition Tee | Teespring (http://teespring.com/airtraffic)

[Northerner]

Love it... Need it in different colours for each watch and we're sorted :ok::E

[Mantovani]

Air Traffic Limited Edition Tee
Naff.

Does anyone remember those sexist "Get 'em down safely with Air Traffic Control (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/573294227535148769/)" car stickers from the 80s & 90s?

[obwan]

Yep I do, meganaff. Also very naff, people who drove around with their headsets on the rear parcel shelf.:\

[ZOOKER]

I think I still have my sexist car-stickers somewhere in the loft. I also have one with a picture of a Sea-King helicopter bearing the words "Happiness is a big chopper".
I think I still have a Tee-shirt with 'Get 'em down safely' on it. It's still in the bag it came in.

[fisbangwollop]

Just incase you missed out the first time around.....
Terrane Ltd. - Official Supplier to the World's Armed Forces (http://www.terrane.co.uk/.GET-EM-DOWN-SAFELY-WITH-ATC-WHITE-COFFEE-MUG_MG1429.htm)