Please correct me, or tell me how it is ...

[RHAG]

Me = Pilot, sorry about that.
You = ATCO, tell me to "XX-XXX line up in sequence."

In a departure situation, Do I;

a) judge it myself and line up myself behind the departing aircraft in front of me when i think its safe. (This could include crossing the holding point markings before the aircraft in front of me has rolled, as I would still be in sequence and not too many aircraft roll backwards on departure).

b) as above but wait for the preceeding departing aircraft to have left before crossing the holding position line.

c) because I dont know what the ATCO has in mind (their plan), just stay where I am and wait to be asked, "why haven't you lined up yet?"

d) Yes I know, give up flying ..... but then who would pay the ATCOs ?

Thanks for a considered answer :ok:

ps: Is it the same in each country e.g. England, germany, france, USA, Australia etc. ?

[iamhere]

I'd go for answer a) :)

[ZOOKER]

RHAG,
As far as I am aware, "line up in sequence" is not standard phraseology. Where and when did you hear this instruction?
I have never heard that phrase, and have been listening to (mainly U.K.), RTF since 1970.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I agree with ZOOKER as far as the UK is concerned. I also worked in Africa and it would be wrong there too.

[ZOOKER]

Thanks HD.
During my spotting days we would often visit EGLL and the R/T was always so astonishingly precise.
"BEALINE XXX, when the Trident on your left-hand-side departs, line-up 28R".
About 10 at the holding-point too!

[spekesoftly]

"line up in sequence" is not standard phraseologyNor is

"BEALINE XXX, when the Trident on your left-hand-side departs, line-up 28R". ;)

[ZOOKER]

Good point speke.

I did not/do-not have access to the early 1970 EGLL MATC Pt.2, so I can't really comment….But hey, it worked, and no-one died.

[eastern wiseguy]

Zooker back in the day loads of things worked.........those days have gone the way of the Millibar ;)

[kcockayne]

eastern wiseguy

& more's the pity !

[RHAG]

Non-Standard:
I agree, it was in germany.
But that does not matter, what would you do?
I guess challenging the ATCO would be the best way.

[mad_jock]

Heard it quite a few times in Scandinavia both single and dual runway ops.

Only when its a queue for departure. You just line up when its not daft.

Belgium and AMS as well.

[ZOOKER]

RHAG,
absolutely. If in doubt, ask. No ATCO worth his, or her salt, wherever they work, should have a problem with that.

Safe flying. :ok:

[kpnagidi]

Additional thoughts here (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/118067-line-up-sequence-behind.html)

[ASD]

My phraseology would be "Callsign, behind the departing (a/c type) line up and wait behind"....

From an ATC perspective, I would say answer A is correct. We leave it up to you to line up when you think its safe.

If I was a pilot however, I would probably go with B as thats what I would think is safer to do taking into account jet blast / weight categories etc.
I would re-word it though to: b) as above but wait for the preceeding departing aircraft to have COMMENCED TAKEOFF ROLL before crossing the holding position line.

Some do the opposite of your example A and take too long to line up, in which case we will tell them to hurry things along.

[jmmoric]

I agree with ASD, and you can slip a "caution slipstream/jetblast" in after if needed.

Then the pilot decides when it's safe to do so.

[fujii]

I always thought that "behind..........behind" was more trouble than it's worth. Much easier to wait until the departing aircraft rolls or the landing aircraft passes the holding point then just say ".....line up."

[kcockayne]

The guiding principle is to use your time strategically ie get the instruction in, if you able, early & that gives you more time, should you need it, later to deal with other things.

[ATCO1962]

It's been a long time since I was a TWR controller but I'd say consign that phraseology to history; it's so open to misinterpretation that it's not funny. As in option C, you have no idea what the controller has in mind with respect to both arriving and departing traffic, although, by using that phraseology, he's opened himself to all sorts of possible scenarios.

Stick with standard phraseologies; almost invariably, they're the best ones to use. And, as has already been stated, if in doubt, request clarification from the ATCO.

[mad_jock]

just to note you can be number 5/6 in the queue when you get given this clearance.

And the only next thing you will get is clear takeoff sometimes with an automatic frequency change to boot.

Mind you there are other things which would never happen in the UK going on such as one tower controller running both departure and arrival runways.

Never seen a problem using it either or heard it challenged by any nationality of pilot.

[1Charlie]

I'm a big fan of conditional line up clearances. If I'm trying to depart an aircraft in a small arrival gap during mixed mode I want it moving across the holding point as soon as the first arrival passes in front. With a standard line up clearance, it takes ALOT longer for the aircraft to move, especially if it is a heavy jet.