Immersion suits for small cockpits.

[cambioso]

Anyone care to advise a practical immersion suit to wear in my rather cramped Midget Mustang, and where I might purchase one?
What are these Floatation Suits (advertised in angling shops) like as a possible substitute?
I am thinking English Channel here (not the Arctic!) as far as water temps are concerned..............................
Thanks (as always),
Jez

[Unusual Attitude]

Hi Jez,

Funny, I was just thinking the same after crossing both the Firth of Forth and the Wash yesterday morning and thinking how cold the water looked!

Given the temperature of Channel in late May, the amount of shipping passing through there and the size of my cockpit I'm just going to opt for an aircrew lifejacket which I still have from my JP days as I'd hope to be plucked out of the water before the onset of hypothermia!

All the best!

UA

[patowalker]

Flotation suits are very bulky,, the water pours in and therefore you get cold.
Many microlight pilots use a Crewsaver drysuit. Trying to get out of one on the apron at Calais or L2K on a hot day provides great entertainment to onlookers.

[Stu B]

First time I tried to get into my immersion suite to actually fly (I had donned it a few times in the privacy of my own home to practice) I was standing beside my aircraft; I lost my balance, fell against the aircraft and broke off the pitot tube. It was clearly going to be "one of those days" ...:ugh:

[DaveW]

Given the temperature of Channel in late May,

UA, it's worth checking that the Channel sea surface temperature is as high as you might think in May. There's quite a lag between seasonal air temperatures and that for a body of water in the sea.

From the chart below (which is for inshore waters - warmer than mid-Channel?), it' still well below the 15 degC that the RN use as a decision point for wearing immersion suits.

http://www.surf-forecast.com/sstgraphs/Brighton_1.png

This graph (from Safety Sense Leaflet 21 (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1175)) is also illuminating:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66162937/Ditching_Survival_Times.jpg

In other words, in late May, with a water temperature of +12degC, the survival time without an immersion suit is about an hour.


(PS: Hi, Stu! :) )

[Unusual Attitude]

Thanks Dave,

Its ok, I'm fat so should be good for 2 hours! ;)

Regards

UA

[cambioso]

Thanks Dave, I completely agree. As I'm wanting to cross the Channel (long bit SAM to ALD) at the end of May, and I am aware of the low(ish) sea temps, this is why I have requested for any immersion suit suggestions.
Doesn't sound too promising re. a suitable suit being available though does it?.

[Stu B]

My Bolkow Junior is not the most spacious of cockpits but it fits 12 stone me in suit and 11 stone pax. But I probably had less layers under it than I ought to.
P.S. - Hi, Dave!

[gasax]

Immersion or floatation suits are not such a good idea. They are pretty bulky and due to the 'one size' fits all they do tend to leak.

The 'answer' is a helicopter tranist suit - as used by offshore workers, or possibly a dry suit. These do not have floatation and the transit suits these days have pretty good seals and thinsulate insulation. After a couple of hours they are not pleasant but should give 2 hours - so long as you have a decent lifejacket with a high level of bouyancy.

Some of the offshore service companies sell off the older ones and they can be a good buy.

[DaveW]

The term "immersion suit" is usually used to refer to a dry suit.

A flotation suit in an aircraft is positively dangerous, as it could easily result in you failing to escape from an immersed - and perhaps inverted - cockpit.

For the same reason, yachties' auto-inflate lifejackets are completely unsuitable for aviation use.

Be careful with transit suits, too - the ones with integral socks are great - but some have boots on the end of the legs, and the soles can be much too large for many GA rudder pedals.

[gasax]

As always the detail is important.

Immersion suits are usually used on ships and intended for evacuation and protecting people from being in the water. They are partially or fully bouyant and naturally bulky. Anything with a SOLAS type approval will not fit in your cockpit.

Helicopter transit suits - in the UK - have socks and need shoes worn over them. Transit suits from Norway or Canada are much bulkier and have a level of floatation - again not such a good idea.

Dry suits - come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, typically those intended for yachting are reasoanbly light and either have socks or ankle seals. Those used for diving tend to be a fair bit heavier - usually with socks.

Unfortunately you need tight seals - especially neck and wrist to keep the water out with a dry suit. So if you can try them on it can make a big difference.

[Maoraigh1]

What is the fire resistance/melt resistance of the various suits?

[DaveW]

The aviation-specific ones are pretty good, apart of course from the rubber neck and wrist seals; rubber is better than man-made fibres for this.

The military type suits, and I think also those used on the North Sea, are treated tight-weave natural fibres. They are breathable when dry for a degree of crew comfort but the fibres swell when wet to further waterproof the suit. The military ones are also coated in a fire-retardant; I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the N Sea ones are too.

[mad_jock]

there are made approved ones.

They are gortex shell with latex neck and wrist seals and come with either ankle or boots you just have to say what you prefer when you order it.

Multifab in Aberdeen make them I know.

[BackPacker]

I have a (2nd hand, so relatively cheap) dinghy sailing drysuit. It's made of Goretex or Goretex-like material, has rubber socks (so can be worn inside my regular shoes - I don't like boots for flying), plus seals for wrist and neck. If you want to I can dig it out and find the make/model.

The only real disadvantage of a dinghy sailing drysuit, compared to proper aviation ones, is that mine doesn't come with any sort of exterior pocket. Which would be useful for storing some survival equipment (PLB), and the usual aviation stuff like pens.

AFAIC the dry-suit is to keep you dry, but it's the clothing underneath that keeps you warm. So you also need to give a thought about what you're going to wear underneath. At least one layer of long sleeved something, but if it's cold you may want to go for two layers or even more.

I also have an aviation lifejacket (the non-auto inflation type) with a sprayhood, and a RescueStreamer. A PLB is still high on my wishlist

[flyingfemme]

I asked the man who serviced an overwater flight suit at Typhoon what the differences were, between their (very good) suit and the sort sold to sailors. He said that the main difference was the shape - yotties expect to be standing up and pilots are sitting down. The flight suit also has an extra layer of fabric on the behind!

Not being of a "standard issue" pilot shape, I use a suit made for kayakers. It's girly shaped, distress orange and made for sitting.

[patowalker]

The neck and wrist seals on a new drysuit are tapered, so you cut them to fit.
The Crewsaver has integral rubber booties, which even with socks on, fit comfortably my tennis shoes.

A handkerchief around the neck, which can be pulled out in an emergency, makes a tight seal more tolerable.

[Sam Rutherford]

Multifab (about £700), and a brand new ex-army drysuit I found on eBay for £10!

Both with Nomex outer and Goretex inner - very comfortable (come in many different sizes).

My top tips (comfort not fashion!):



Wearing a surf top underneath (they have high necks, so can go between skin and rubber - until you're in the water and can be pushed inside to make seal).
'Teva' style sandals - very comfortable, great control and no pressure points (no stuffing into a boot or shoe).



Like I said, very high probability of arrest by the Fashion Police. :hmm:


Fly safe, Sam.