V Tails the pros and cons ?

[Pace]

With the post on Bonanzas brought to my mind the good old V tail and how little they are discussed ?
Other than the famous ' Doctor Killer 'I think Robin had a pretty little V tail as well as a French fighter jet ( magister ?)
I wondered what the pros are other than looks and less drag missing a conventional tail fin!
What are they like in spin recovery and strong crosswinds? Any good reputation V tails around ?

Pace

[dirkdj]

I think the Bonanza V-tail has an excellent reputation if properly flown and maintained. It handles better in a crosswind than the straight-tail Bonanza. Much lighter on the controls than the A36. Sportscar feel.

The short-body Bonanzas (V35 and F33) are really 2+2 aircraft unless you put a Turbonormaliser in front. This helps a lot with the W&B.
On the A36, the wing was moved 10" aft, this solves the W&B problems.

[chevvron]

I once owned a homebuilt called a Moni which had a V tail. Although some people said it was 'twitchy' in pitch, I didn't find this and when flying it, you wouldn't have known it wasn't a 'conventional' tailplane. Indeed it was very pleasant to fly, you just had to 'think' what you wanted to do and the aircraft did it with the smallest control input.
There was a complicated looking 'mixer' unit in the rear fuselage which sorted out the control positions for you ie combining rudder pedal movements with sidestick movements.
As for spin recovery, I think the manual said stick neutral, full opposite rudder until the spin stops, then stick fully forward, (but I may be wrong as it's over 25 years ago)

[Prop swinger]

. . .full opposite rudder until the spin stops, then stick fully forward, . . .:eek: Sounds interesting.

[IFMU]

I am building a Waiex with a V tail (or Y tail if you will). Haven't flown it yet. I met their transition instructor today who teaches in both the Sonex and Waiex. He says they fly exactly the same. The factory position is they are the same including acrobatics.

[thing]

Sounds interesting.

Fairly normal spin recovery I would have thought.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I have time in both V tailed and straight tailed short body Bonanza's ( no time in a 36 though).

Personally I could not tell the difference in flying characteristics between the two other than the V tail waggled a bit more in turbulence (the infamous Wichita Wiggle). I also saw absolutely no speed difference and in fact if anything the straight tail E33A was just a smidge faster than a Vee tail 33S I also flew occasionally.

[abgd]

From r/c days, many model slope soarers use V-tails because they are small enough that the larger individual flying surfaces in a V-tail are more efficient (higher Reynold's numbers) than in a three-surface configuration. On larger aircraft, any benefit is meant to be much lower.

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi abgd.. quote... From r/c days, many model slope soarers use V-tails.


Probably more to do with less damage when landing in long grass than aerodynamics.


Of course there is always T Tail as an option.

[dubbleyew eight]

in full size aerodynamics for the V tail to be as effective as the usual Fin and Rudder, and Horizontal Stabiliser and elevator the V surfaces need to be about 1 and a half times bigger so overall there is no advantage.

if you want a really frisky, really frisky, homebuilt have a look at the Davis DA2a.
the only homebuilt aeroplane I've encountered that I would rate as harder to fly than a W8 Tailwind.

[Silvaire1]

The Davis has a good reputation i.e. not frisky.

Flying the Davis DA-2A Homebuilt (http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepDavisDA2.html)

The W8 Tailwind I flew was easier to handle than a Luscombe except for going twice as fast.

[Pace]

http://www.davidandivy.co.uk/images/ac12c_robin_atl.jpg

Always thought this Robin was a pretty V tail and quick for only 60 hp

And this beautiful Fouger Magister

http://www.racingjets.com/sites/all/images/jets/Fouga-02.jpg

Pace

[dubbleyew eight]

there are a few errors in the da2 article.

[IFMU]

What are the errors in the Davis article?

[UV]

Mate of mine had a V tailed aircraft. Said never again as he had to spend too much time explaining to everyone how it worked!

[treadigraph]

There have been several sailplanes with V tails. Once saw a spectacular photo of a Schempp-Hirth SHK upside down at, oh, maybe 5 feet in the hands of some German aerobatic ace!

[maxred]

UV, it is perhaps the most commonly asked question I get. What is it like to fly. I have a V tail Bonanza. Beautiful, I always respond, just like a mini airliner to fly. What about the V tail comes the response. I fly a number of types, and it is difficult to be specific, because most types are different, in certain degrees.

I am only familiar with this one type of V tail. It requires good speed management, but that is due to the very clean airframe, a great Beech design. It requires more rudder input than other similar, high performance SEP. it requires 'on the ball maintenance' due to rigging, corrosion, and trim tab positioning. It requires the pilot to be ahead of the aircraft, but then this has nothing to do with the V tail. It does waggle a bit, some have yaw dampers fitted, mines does not, but a good grip on the rudders can sort this out. The fleet is older, and a lot of serial numbers have had a lot of upgrades, making individual aircraft that can have quite different flying characteristics. I am totally smitten by it, and I truly love flying it.

[Lukesdad]

I owned a rather delighful Robin ATL for several years. Indeed my son, in common with Pierre Robin's, did his PPL in this lightweight V tail.

Aside from being a little underpowered, this economical liitle aircraft exhibited very benign handling and the V tail allowed a high crosswind limit, (22 knots if memory serves) As has been pointed out previously, people were always curious as to how the plane handled with it's unconventional tail set up. The only quirk I ever experienced was a rather disconcerting vibration when a strong tailwind was experienced in the circuit.