Experienced Controllers obtaining employment with Nav Canada

[herjeet]

I was wondering if anyone knew if Nav Canada would ever reinstate the hiring of experienced controllers? From what I know, retirements are fairly steady and many places are short of controllers, surely it would make sense to get experienced personal who come with good atc backgrounds?!:confused:

[cossack]

Not looking likely. I don't have any official knowledge, however, but I think that ship has sailed.
Why recruit foreigners, 90% of whom can qualify in 12 months when you can recruit cheap ab initios, 90% of which will not qualify after 2-3 years? :rolleyes:

[Naderhood]

What is the washout rate for new hires in Canada? That 90% was a joke I'd hope. I work for the FAA as an instructor and I'm just curious how our washouts compare to Canada's.

[ASD]

I emailed them not so long ago and this was the response:

NAV CANADA no longer has an Experienced Controller Program as the results have not met our expectations. As a result, NAV CANADA will not be considering applications from foreign controllers. You are however, more than welcome to apply under the regular stream if you wish to do so providing you meet all the prerequisites to apply.

[cossack]

What is the washout rate for new hires in Canada? That 90% was a joke I'd hope.
Canada-wide I have no idea.

Of those that walk through the classroom door on Day 1, close to 90% will not get licensed here. They may get close and go on to get licensed at quieter units, or return here after a few years and qualify easily, but the ab initio success rate (and seniority bid success rate for that matter) is not as high as we would like.

Sending ab initios to the busiest, most complex tower in the country is a waste of time and money IMHO, but seniority bids are relatively few, so we have to try. I believe we have had 3 ab initio qualifications in the last 7 years with two still in training and maybe a dozen seniority bid successes in the same time frame. That's running 2 courses of 5 per year.

[cossack]

as the results have not met our expectations
I don't know what expectations they had, but nearly everyone of the dozen or so that came to Toronto (Tower and ACC) from NATS qualified within a year or so and are still here. I've been here since May 2003.

There were rumours of a "gentleman's agreement" between Nav and NATS which stopped the flow from the UK in 2005-ish.

[samotnik]

That's a pity. They should have just limited the offer to people below English ICAO level 6, contrary to what Airservices Australia has recently done. ;-)

[herjeet]

Its a bit silly, I am a Canadian Citizen and worked in the UK for over 15 years as a controller. It seems insane that they close the doors to a Canadian Citizen who has a proven track record at a busy International Airport both Approach radar and Tower ratings! Well, lets see what happens when they cannot get enough bums-on-seats with trainees!:ugh:

[lamix1w]

Depends on how you define busy HV;-)

[herjeet]

Busier than YKA!!:8

[lamix1w]

You need to work at an airport on top of a hill where the runway is hardly ever into wind;-)

[herjeet]

LOL! Makes for interesting landings from my years of experience!

[elafrican]

I've emailed them 2 days ago regarding the same issue. Well mine is more complex as I'm an EU citizen, so I have to be a permanent resident first.
They did however state I can start over, which might not be such a huge problem as I am young and started recently here.
Anyone knows if it's hard to become a permanent resident? And also how different is the testing in Canada compared to Eurocontrol's?

Or should I stay home?(I'd rather leave, I want more traffic, I know I can do better than here).

[Married a Canadian]

There were rumours of a "gentleman's agreement" between Nav and NATS which stopped the flow from the UK in 2005-ish.

I was the last controller to go through the experienced controller program...it had unofficially stopped when I applied...had to go through a side door to get accepted. The rumours were pretty much true. Since then any controllers from abroad have had to apply through the regular stream...as odd as that is!

NAV CANADA no longer has an Experienced Controller Program as the results have not met our expectations

As Cossack said..this statement is a bit of smoke and mirrors. All the foreign controllers that came to YYZ checked out within a year (myself included).
There were problems at other ACCs which have been discussed on other threads. These other ACCs had/have low checkout rates aswell...and supposedly the foreign controllers could not adapt...or had lied about their qualifications (according to one poster previously). As I said at the time...to qualify for the program you had to have an ATC licence...which from the UK meant you had gone through some pretty thorough training and your validations were there to see.
Read into the "results" Canada wide as you will.

The worst thing about applying from scratch now (if you are already a controller) is you won't get paid till you reach an operational position. I can't think of many experienced controllers that would forgo a years pay just to move to Canada.

[twentypoint4]

Fancy pointing me towards this "side door"?? Specifically the one with Vancouver behind it... haha

[ZOOKER]

I think the 'blocking-up' of the door was related to the movement of a U.K. ATC unit to a more, shall we say, 'Caledonian' environment.
Folks subsequently just went east and south-east instead of west.

A great shame.

[Married a Canadian]

Fancy pointing me towards this "side door"??

The side door involved my username....and telling a story of love, tears and distance. Nav Canada fell for it then.......they are less "romantic" now.:)

[cossack]

When "MaC" arrived they thought the bottom of the barrel must have been reached. ;)

[Inner_Ninja]

As can happen with any offshore joining a new ANSP, the matching of skill sets from previous place of employment to the new unit can be an issue. Just because somebody had a terminal/approach rating from else where, didn't necessarily mean they had worked a crossing runway operation (or a triple "cross"), or if they had come some somewhere that was very proceduralised and thrown into a free-for-all come from all directions set up. It's not always a sure thing on getting a rating.

[Fidgell]

I concur, 100% success of the British invasion here at YYZ ATC. One left voluntary due to family circumstances but those that remained are still the best here :P

Unless, theyre falling off ladders eh Cossack??

:}

[cossack]

Accidents happen. :ouch: No regrets on the move though. Its a shame the overseas recruiting has stopped, it would help solve some of the current staffing issues.

[ZOOKER]

Fidgell,

you so disappoint me. I thought you would be back up in Ayrshire, writing poetry.

"Embracing the change" :E

Hope you're well. :ok: