IMC Theory Question

[Straighten Up]

I'm working on the theory at the moment and just got this question wrong on an online tester - the others I got wrong made sense but this to me seems wrong?? Why would you not be able to accept an SVFR clearance?

You are a Private Pilot with a current IMC rating. In uncontrolled airspace you are not permitted to...

You answered: A - land at an aerodrome with less than 1800m runway visual range (RVR).
Correct answer: C - accept a SVFR clearance to enter Class A airspace.

Can anyone help me out with it?

Thanks

SU

[RTN11]

Air Navigation Order, Schedule 7, Part B (Section 1, Schedule 7, page 13)

Instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes)
(1) Subject to paragraph (2), within the United Kingdom an instrument meteorological
conditions rating (aeroplanes) entitles the holder of a United Kingdom Private Pilot’s
Licence (Aeroplanes) to fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane without being subject
to the restrictions contained in paragraph (2)(c) or (f) of the privileges of the United
Kingdom Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes).
(2) The rating does not entitle the holder of the licence to fly:
(a) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than three km;
or
(b) when the aeroplane is taking off or landing at any place if the flight visibility below
cloud is less than 1800 metres.

The question you have given states RVR, whereas the law is written as met vis.

This type of question is terrible, with the negative in there. Far better to ask what you are allowed to do.

[wb9999]

You can accept a SVFR clearance in a Class A CTR only, not in a Class A CTA, airway or TMA. The question doesn't mention CTR. As most Class A is not a CTR, I would take it to be that it's not permitted with regards to the question.

Class A CTRs will not exist by the end of the year, so there will definitely be no SVFR in any Class A soon.

[Whopity]

Probably the most important point is that a SVFR clearance is initiated by the pilot. CAP413:1.5 Special VFR Flights
1.5.1 Special VFR clearances are only issued for flights within Control Zones and are
normally at the request of the pilot. therefore; if the conditions were not within your limitations you would not request it!

[sm85]

Straighten Up,

Which website are you using for questions ?
I am wanting to do the IMC and an online question / answer website would be very useful for study.
Cheers
Steve

[BackPacker]

The problem with the IMC exam is that it's part gospel, part fact.

The biggest issue I found is the "add 150 or 200 feet to the DA/MDA" thing. This is not in the ANO but only in the AIP. So it's not a legal requirement and IMC holders are legally entitled to descend to the minima on the plate. But the IMC exam treats the AIP recommendation as the legal limit, and bases the correct answers on that.

[Whopity]

But the IMC exam treats the AIP recommendation as the legal limit, and bases the correct answers on that. No, it bases the answers on the recomended minima which is what they have been trained to fly to. I doubt that you will find any question asking for the legal minima and it is not unreasonable to expect a candidate to know the recomended minima for the holder of such a rating. They will be required to demonstrate it on the flight test.

[BackPacker]

No, it bases the answers on the recomended minima which is what they have been trained to fly to.

What I meant is, that the questions suggest that they are asking for legal minima, while the correct answer is based on the recommended minima.

I don't recall the exact wording, but the question is along the lines of "to what level are you allowed to descend" - which in my limited vocabulary means they're asking for the legal minimum. But the answer you have to give should be based on the recommended minimum or else you fail the question.

[thing]

I achieved my lowest score in the IMC exam (a pass I might add). Out of all the PPL exams I found the IMC one the most ambiguous of an ambiguous lot.

[Desert185]

There is an art to writing test questions. If you know the information, the correct answer should jump off the page and light the bulb above your head...without obfuscating haze, smoke, mist or fog. :ugh:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Here's a novel thought - instead of these multiple-guess questions, where the game is to spot the trick wording in the answers, how about some sensible questions, to which you have to write down the answers, and which are then marked by a human being who knows something about the subject matter.

Y'know, like it was when we did O levels. If you weren't quite sure what the question meant you could explain that in your answer, and give alternative answers for different interpretations, and it could be marked accordingly. For example you could say things like "I don't give a toss whether it's met vis or RVR that's 1800m, because my personal minimum is 3km, so on a day like that I wouldn't be flying anyway".

[Straighten Up]

Sm85

I used pplcrusier which I used for the ppl but don't rate it for the IMC. The second test I did only had 4 questions that weren't in the first test.

Thanks for the other replies although I still don't think my answer was wrong.

You cannot land with RVR less than 1800m regardless of met vis surely

You can accept an sVFR clearance if you request it and it is given. - you can do this even without an IMC

[Straighten Up]

Gertrude - seconded

[RTN11]

What were the other two options? It could just be a very terrible question, even the real exam papers have been known to have the wrong answer marked as correct.

[daxwax]

RTN11
I did mine at the end of last year and one question did indeed have the wrong answer marked as correct.
And I had to use a map that was several years out of date.

[RTN11]

And I had to use a map that was several years out of date.

Of course you did! They don' rewrite the whole exam every year. When you go to Gatwick for ATPL exams, the jep manual and maps you use are probably a decade out of date, it's irrelevant. You're not using it to be current to get you about, but to check you know how to use the information properly.

[sm85]

On the topic, can anyone recommend the best book(s) for study before embarking on an IMC course?
:):ok:

[thing]

I used Air Pilots Manual no5 which is 'Radio Navigation and Instrument Flying'. Did me OK.

Got my renewal next month so it's just been dusted and reopened...

[olasek]

You cannot land with RVR less than 1800m regardless of met vis surelyPer FAA rules this is a wrong conclusion.
There is nothing in the FAA regs that prohibits IFR flying (or landing) in uncontrolled airspace. It may be stupid, reckless behaviour (depending on situation) but definitely not illegal. How JAA looks at it I can't say.

Another tip-off that (A) is a wrong choice is that they are using RVR in uncontrolled airspace, such combination makes no sense at all.

[AirborneAgain]

Per FAA rules this is a wrong conclusion.
There is nothing in the FAA regs that prohibits IFR flying (or landing) in uncontrolled airspace. It may be stupid, reckless behaviour (depending on situation) but definitely not illegal. How JAA looks at it I can't say.Well, there are scheduled flights taking off from and landing on uncontrolled airports in Europe...

Another tip-off that (A) is a wrong choice is that they are using RVR in uncontrolled airspace, such combination makes no sense at all.Why on earth not? Uncontrolled airports can (and sometimes do!) have weather observers. Not to mention AUTOMETAR.

Also, in EASA-land you can convert meteorological visibility to RVR so RVR minima can be applied even if RVR as such is not reported.

[porterhouse]

Why on earth not? Uncontrolled airports can (and sometimes do!) have weather observers.
At least in the US those so called human 'observers' never report visibility in RVR. And all automated stations (like AWSS/ASOS, etc.) mounted at smaller US airports (say class G) never report visibility as RVR. So knowing how practical FAA is they would never use RVR in such case, how Europe handles it might be different.

[AirborneAgain]

how Europe handles it might be differentIndeed it is. Witness:

ESST 061950Z AUTO VRB02KT 0550 R16/1300V1800D R34/1300V1600D FG OVC002/// 00/M00 Q0996 REUP REFZUP=

[tmmorris]

Olasek,

UK IMC rating holders are limited to 1800m met visibility on takeoff and landing anyway, I appreciate this isn't obvious if you live in a country where they let you have an IR for less than the price of a detached house...

[porterhouse]

UK IMC rating holders are limited to 1800m met visibility on takeoff and landing anywayOh really, are you sure?:confused::confused:
But BA pilots are excluded, right? :):8
1800 m is a nautical mile, so you are telling me that a IR holder in UK can't land at airport with visibility 1/2 mile (CAT I) assuming runway has CAT I? The fact that he/she can't takeoff with visibility 1/2 nm is no less shocking.:}

[tmmorris]

The UK IMC Rating is not an IR. I suggest you Google it...

[BackPacker]

Olasek & Porterhouse, you are confusing a full ICAO compliant IR (which is a requirement if you want to hold an ATPL, like BA pilots do) with the UK-specific IMC rating. The UK IMC rating gives *limited* privileges to fly in IMC conditions, but does not provide you with the full spectrum of IR privileges. For instance, certain minima are higher (like RVR), and you cannot fly in class A airways with an IMC.

If all you know about is the ICAO compliant IR, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to comment in a thread that is about the UK specific IMC rating.

[olasek]

where they let you have an IR for less than the price of a detached house...
which is good ... or bad? ;)

[On Track]

Yes it's another one of those only-in-Britain threads...:=

[thing]

To add confusion for all you foreign johnnys it's now not an IMC rating but an IR(R) rating...:). Although it's exactly the same as the IMC rating. As BP says the main differences between the IR(R) and the full fat IR is that the IR(R) foesn't allow flight in class A and the recommended minima are 600' for a non precision approach and 500' for a precision.

Is it any use? Oh yes. If you've never flown in the UK's maritime temperate climate then it's the best thing since sliced bread. Plus mine cost me about £2300 all in cf a full IR which is about 4 trillion quid.