Staying high - how to ask for it

[jecuk]

So flying in at FL280 handed over to London Control from Maastricht, I frequently get descended very early perhaps on the assumption that a SET needs to come down slowly.

I usually ask to stay as high as possible for as long as the controller can allow as I would prefer a rapid late descent to LAM and once over London into EGTK.

Any tips on the best way to ask as I am never quite sure. I usually get understood but is there a clear quick way to explain without blocking the frequency for too long?

[jamesleaman]

Request maintain current level until... etc?

I can't imagine there is any quicker way of going around it?

[chevvron]

You get descended early because of the 'sectorisation' of the task at LTCC and LACC. If you were to stay above the LTCC sector in LACC airspace, it would mean extra co-ordination between the two just for you.

[055166k]

Your best answer would be a visit to Swanwick to see how the overall system works. Basically there is a large number of sectors split both vertically and horizontally like an irregular pile of Lego bricks....and your route will take a path through the most efficient line of those bricks. What do I mean by efficient? The system is optimised for a Huge and Vast throughput of traffic almost beyond comprehension....rather than a 5-star service for just a few movements. In order to achieve maximum airspace usage there needs to be a regulated system of ATC handling....if you study charts and routes around the "south east" you will start to get the picture.
There is more flexibility outside peak hours....and especially at night. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not being cheeky, but controllers are familiar with the operating characteristics and profile preferences of a wide spectrum of aircraft types....it's our job....and you will not be given premature descent without good reason.

[jecuk]

No offence intended at all and I have been to Swanwick and understand the LTCC and LACC system. I think the descents are meant to be helpful and not require me to descend too rapidly. I just prefer if within a particular sector to stay high for predominantly fuel and TAS reasons if that doesn't cause the controller any problems. Certainly not looking for a customised service.

I am usually coming back at night and it has almost always been accommodated. If not then it is of course not an issue at all. I just often feel a bit clumsy asking for it.

[jpwelton]

I'd be with jamesleaman - pick your tod as a fix or range from, and ask to stay level till then. At night I'd guess you'll get it. During the day however you'd get 'trapped' above all the Birmingham/East Mids inbounds at 280, but you might be able to maintain 210 until almost N abeam Heathrow.

[jecuk]

Thank you for the tips.

[allrounder99]

Most airlines in the Mid East when given descent, "Descend now, FLxxx with xxxxfpm give the read back perfectly then....

2 minutes later still at the cruise, confirm that was at our discretion?:ugh: Seriously you european pilots, this happens all the time here

Could we maintain for another x Miles? would be the easiest way to ask if its just for efficiency, we'll usually know what you are getting at.

If its due to wx, add that to the question and you'll almost never get knocked back.