Precautionary landing during thunderstorm!

[Steve6443]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/26/article-2546150-1AF9E1B100000578-862_953x634.jpg

Couldn't believe this picture......

[Pace]

ACTUALLY??? Is it a trick of sight? Is the lightening bolt hitting the aircraft or the trees in the background?
Is the pilot waiting for the storm to pass ? Do we know what is in the other direction ie blue sky!
I have to admit years ago flying to shannon in a twin and passing Dublin at 10,000 odd feet got hit by a lightning bolt 3 feet on the wing from where I was sitting! Apart from the blinding flash crackling radios, everyones hair standing on end with glowng white teeth :E We were fine.
Strange thing was I was vectored onto the ILS at Dublin and the twin was chased by lighting bolts all the way down. I was sure the air was so charged that the aircraft was setting them off.
Landed at Dublin and after a couple of airline departures they closed the whole airport down with about 20 aircraft in a line waiting for the storm to pass.
Good shot but maybe not quite as it appears ?

Pace

[Steve6443]

according to the article, he backtracked along the runway and then took off, with a thunderstorm overhead.....

[treadigraph]

Steve, is that Biggin Hill on Saturday afternoon (looks a little like Biggin looking NW to the right of the tower ramp)?


I was walking on a common about seven miles west when the core passed through slightly further north at about 4:30pm and the wind and hale was incredibly vicious. A lightning strike hit and partially collapsed a crane on a tower block in Croydon.

[BEagle]

Reminds me of an occasion at Wright-Patterson AFB when we were in the flight planning room getting ready for the next leg. It was the other crew's turn to fly, so I was just sitting waiting for the transport. Rain was due, but hadn't actually arrived. Then I looked out of the window and saw some distinctly ominous nimbostratus rapidly approaching...

"I don't like the look of that big, ugly, black bast*rd", I remarked to the other captain.

At which there was a loud rumbling noise behind me, followed by "What's that you said, boy?". I turned round to see what looked like an ebony cliff dressed in a USAF flight suit, with a distinctly annoyed look on his face...

"That big, black bast*rd over there, mate!", I explained and pointed it out.

"Holy $hit - I see what you mean. My crew and I are staying here till that mother's gone!", he decided.

But the other captain thought he knew better. So we started up, taxyed out, had our departure clearance cancelled and taxyed back in again.....:rolleyes:

[PURPLE PITOT]

It was EGBO Wolverhampton intergalactic space port. Taken yesterday. the aircraft had landed and was heading in to park up ahead of the TS arrival.

[treadigraph]

Thanks PP, glad to see he didn't actually get airborne into it.

There seem to have been a number of similar storms tracking across the UK yesterday, being out in the open on the ground was bad enough - my hands were still stinging mildly from the hail this morning.

[BigEndBob]

He arrived several minutes after me. That weather came in rather quick.
Got a bit lively on 22!

[Cusco]

It was EGBO Wolverhampton intergalactic space port. Taken yesterday. the aircraft had landed and was heading in to park up ahead of the TS arrival.

So the title of this thread is actually pure Daily Mail :ugh:

[Steve6443]

So the title of this thread is actually pure Daily Mail

Let's not forget it's not the lightning which causes the damage but the up- and down-drafts in such storms that cause planes, especially smaller 4 seaters like the one shown, to be torn to pieces. And these downdrafts can be experienced up to 20 miles away from the centre of the storm so for the pilot to be taxying on the ground whilst the storm rages around him indicates he's been in the air with the storm closing in uncomfortably close on him.

Now, there may be some sky gods here who laugh in the face of such dangers but I would never put my life / my passengers' lives at risk by flying - or attempting to land - anywhere near a fully developed CB....

[PURPLE PITOT]

Steve, it was cross country traffic caught out by Wx. Dived into the nearest airport for safety.Certainly better planning would have been more appropriate.

Can you provide a link to the "article" to which you refer? Just interested.

[Steve6443]

as requested (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2014/01/26/lightning-strikes-over-region-in-pictures/) unfortunately it appears to have been edited since I read it because it was initially referring to a backtrack and then a start.....

For info: The same picture has since been used - as others have referred to - on the DM website, I linked the DM picture because it appeared to be better quality....

[PURPLE PITOT]

The original picture is on the airport website. (unfortunately i am a computer moron so i can't provide a link).

I think "lucky escape" might be a better title!

[mad_jock]

The touch down point is 2-3 miles away from the aircraft.

I have had 3 lightning strikes while airborne the worst one was the second which mugged me sideways out of a cloud. That one magnetised the wing which was a bit of a pain to sort out.

The other two, loads of st elmos going up the window then a biggish bang and this is where things differed. The EFIS aircraft really didn't like it and all the screens shut down and the whole lot shut down for 2-3mins then rebooted. The steam instrument aircraft it didn't miss a beat with engines turning and apart from a funny smell from the pax. Both were near ROSUN hold.

Two of them had a 50p hole blown in the skin one on the wing tip one on the rudder. The time the wing became magnetised when it got us sideways it had hit the fuel filler cap.

One of the atlantic pilots said he had been hit in exactly the same place in a DC3 and with them afterwards there was a blue glow from the back and when they looked there was ball lightning floating in the cabin.

[sharpend]

Years ago, whilst proceeding from Ascension Island to Botswana we approached Gaborone International to be told that the mother of all Cbs was over the approach. When told it would last 'until tomorrow' I asked my Co to get the weather for the alternate. Sadly that, and all other airfields were rubbish. Thank you met man! Anyway, short of landing in the desert (not good in a four-engine airliner), I elected to land on the reciprocal runway with a stated tail wind of 30 kts. Yes, madness you might say, and you would be correct.

However, there was method in my madness and I briefed we would go around if the tail wind (from the INS) was greater than 20 kts. With a very long runway, 20 kts would be just about OK (though illegal!). We had no alternative.

To cut a very long story short, the wind on final was 30 its, but 180 deg out from what ATC was giving! Hence the landing was fine. As I rolled to the end i spotted a BA 747 about to line up on the reciprocal of my landing runway. I pointed out to him that he would have a 30 kts tail wind on take-off. As he was at max t/o weight, he wisely elected to go back to the bar. A departure on my landing runway was out of the question due to the huge Cb off the end.

He bought me a few beers that night, but none for ATC!

Another true story:

During the Balkan conflict I was tasked with flying into theatre to deliver 35 tons of high explosives (HE). Unfortunately, I had to fly very low to avoid getting tangled up with cruise missiles... their pilots don't look out much!

Inbound, a glance at that radar confirmed my worst nightmare. A mass of terrible ugly blotches on the screen stretched for as far as my eye could see. As I started to blub my wise old navigator calmed me down by telling me that the blotches were merely mountain tops and we were at just 2000 feet above them. Moreover, I could affirm his statement by looking out of the window. What luck having a window seat. However, I would have to pick my route through the bubbling cumulonimbus clouds with care and especially those clouds with a very hard centre (a mountain top). Suddenly a jagged fork of lightning launched at us out of a black ominous cloud. Without so much as a ‘You p**s me off' call from above we were hit. The plane shuddered and filled with a strong smell of burning. Instantly I though "just as well we are not carrying passengers". Then I remembered the timid air stewardess who was afraid of flying who I had invited to sit on the flight deck jump seat to observe just how routinely safe everything always is! Then I also recalled we were carrying 35 tons of high explosive!

Apparently the fireball from the lightning strike rolled down between the high explosives and exited the aeroplane by the tail. Now I too had a fear of flying and my wobbly lip became a blur. Still, I thought this will make a good scenario for my next simulator sortie; assuming I survived. Moreover, we would now qualify for an additional laundry allowance. Of course prudence dictated we divert to somewhere less hostile than Macedonia and so we pointed the VC10 at a jolly nice holiday airport in Greece. On ground the engineers ascertained the damage (not a lot, just a few charred bits and some holes) and without too much serious trouble we resumed our odyssey to Skopje.

[Mariner9]

Personally, I would say "Wise decision to undertake a precautionary landing" would be a more appropriate thead title.

For the avoidance of doubt, I wasn't the pilot concerned, but if I had been I wouldn't be impressed to be called "foolhardy" solely on the basis of a single photo :rolleyes:

[DaveW]

I agree; now that we have the correct story, I suggest it is time to edit the thread title.

sharpend: Superbly told 'dit', thanks. :ok:

[Pace]

Now, there may be some sky gods here who laugh in the face of such dangers but I would never put my life / my passengers' lives at risk by flying - or attempting to land - anywhere near a fully developed CB....

What makes you say that ? There are pilots who fly for fun and choose their days and weather! There are pilots who fly long distance and who cannot be so selective and who would love to go and see a film or do something else because the weather is crap but within reason we have to fly!

Crossing an occluded or cold front over a long flight chances are you will have to pick your way through at the worst levels ie 10 to 12 k as appears with this guy a diversion maybe his best option on the rare occasion!
That does not mean he lands in the middle of a thunderstorm ( they move you know ) and neither do you risk your PAX
It's just a different sort of flying by more experienced pilots not Sky Gods

Pace

[Steve6443]

Sorry, I chose my title based on a report which said the pilot back tracked and was on the take off run when this photo was taken. Unfortunately, as with most things in the press, I should have taken it with a pinch of salt - as previously stated, the report has now been "amended".....

[Steve6443]

What makes you say that ? There are pilots who fly for fun and choose their days and weather! There are pilots who fly long distance and who cannot be so selective and who would love to go and see a film or do something else because the weather is crap but within reason we have to fly!

Crossing and occluded or cold front distance chances are you will have to pick your way through at the worst levels ie 10 to 12 k as appears with this guy a diversion maybe his best option!
That does not mean he lands in the middle of a thunderstorm ( they move you know ) and neither do you risk your PAX
It's just a different sort of flying by more experienced pilots not Sky Gods

Pace, I was flying from Budapest back to my home base in 2012 in an Archer 3. The forecast was for a line of thunderstorms from the Alps across to Prag. Some might have risked it, I didn't. I landed at Krems and waited for the front to pass, I didn't fly until I could see the lightning flashing and the skies darkening, I knew what was ahead and landed.

I understand your point about thunderstorms moving but as you know, thunderstorms don't have a radius of impact of around a few hundred metres but rather a number of miles and whilst I applaud the fact that this was a precautionary landing, rather than the "take off into a storm" which was initially reported in a local rag, I think even landing at a strip where the storm is overhead would not be my preferred option, I would have returned from where I came and waited, after all, in most cases our spam cans can fly quicker than the storms progression.

[Pace]

Steve

I have nothing but praise for your decisions all I am
Saying I cannot say I have flown in the same way! In 30 years of flying I have problem flights which stick out failures and weather situations which stick out!
99% of the flights are not challenging but I would lie if I avoided talking of some which were!
7 of my friends some far better than me have been killed in often the easier flights by a silly mistake so what can I say ? Good guardian angel? But certainly not a Sky God but maybe different to you! Your attitude is far from wrong :ok:

Pace

[DaveW]

Sorry, I chose my title based on a report which said the pilot back tracked and was on the take off run when this photo was taken. Unfortunately, as with most things in the press, I should have taken it with a pinch of salt - as previously stated, the report has now been "amended".....

Steve, that's fine - but there was some unforecast weather around that day, and quite a few sensible people were flying based on what the forecast did suggest. (See e.g. here (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87716).)

It seems from later posts in this thread the aircraft in question did, in fact, do the sensible thing when (s)he realised what was happening weather-wise.

Of course, it's quite easy to go back and edit the thread title and contents if you choose to.

[Steve6443]

Of course, it's quite easy to go back and edit the thread title and contents if you choose to.

If I knew how to, I would. All I ended up doing was editing the title of the first post, not the title of the thread......:O

[mary meagher]

We are talking about Saturday weather? DRIVING IN MY CAR back from Banbury to Oxford I was as badly frightened as ever in an aircraft! I have never experienced such weather in the UK, the wind was gusting at least 60 mph, tree branches sailing through the air, wacking against my car, viz was down to a matter of yards, the rain was practically solid. News media is talking we had tornados! not quite, but driving through that storm, that followed me right down to Oxford, is something I don't want to do again. Just very glad not to be on a boat. The car has dents all over the old ones.

And speaking of lightning, remember that two seat K21 glider from Dunstable that was struck by lighning and disintegrated? both occupants parachuted to safety; they didn't need to open the canopy, it wasn't there any more. The wreckage was retrieved by the AAIB and studied; they found the voltage of the strike, which melted the controls of the glider, to be well in excess of any lightning protection on current airliners....

perhaps some person could give a reference to that report....must have been at least 15 years ago.

[Steve6443]

This report? (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/dft_avsafety_pdf_500699.pdf)

[Saab Dastard]

If I knew how to, I would. All I ended up doing was editing the title of the first post, not the title of the thread.....

You can't Steve, only a mod can. Just tell me what you what like it changed to and it shall be done.

SD

[Steve6443]

"Precautionary landing" works for me... thanks.

[Pace]

I dont think many gliders are lightning protected maybe some? The down side of composites

Pace

[Exiled Martian]

Good grief, you gotta just laugh at the flawed tabloid sometimes! I can 100% confirm that the OP picture was taken at EGBO as I was there flying Saturday late morning. i must admit the morning hinted the day to be a calm scattered Cu / blue sky sort of scenario! But Upon closer review of the MET info, it was evident that some nasty weather was making its way from the West. So anyways, I took off on my local nav ex & as I approached Welshpool (via Montford bridge) to land, I could see just how bad it looked out further West & decided against landing & instead opted to turn in their overhead & head back to EGBO to plant my feet up & watch the MET show unfold in front my very eyes;)

The photo was captured by the resident photographer - Paul Bunch!
In fact you can find most of his work on his website link:
Wolverhampton Halfpenny Green Airport Photos (http://halfpennygreen.zenfolio.com/)

[mary meagher]

Thanks, Steve, for digging up that report....recommended reading for anyone tempted to fly at the edge of CuNimb.....

Even if you only read the first two pages of the report, enjoy the detail about the injuries sustained by the two pilots - singed hair on the back of the neck, broken ankle on parachute landing....how lucky they were. And flying power, how many of you guys wear parachutes???????

[Steve6443]

Thanks, Steve, for digging up that report....recommended reading for anyone tempted to fly at the edge of CuNimb.....

.....which is why I won't fly within 20 miles of a fully developed CB - nothing on earth is worth taking the risk, although it's not the lightning which bothers me - however after this report, perhaps it should - but more to do with the up and downdrafts inside which can cause structural failure...

Even if you only read the first two pages of the report, enjoy the detail about the injuries sustained by the two pilots - singed hair on the back of the neck, broken ankle on parachute landing....how lucky they were. And flying power, how many of you guys wear parachutes???????

When taking my PPL, I naively asked my instructor about parachutes and where they are - he just laughed at me, said "have you ever tried to open the door to your car doing more than 100mph on the motorway? Now imagine doing the same thing whilst the plane is spinning, subjecting you to high G force. Now imagine you're in the Archer, trying to clamber from the left hand seat across to the right, open the door whilst putting it on..."

[Pace]

Airlines regularly take lightning strikes even with all their weather avoidance.
I have had one in a Seneca Twin with no damage other than crackling radios.

The problem occurs with composites as well as composite parts on Airlines.
I am not an aircraft builder or composite specialist but believe they have to build in metal mesh into the composite.

What do Cirrus do?
Gliders usually have no protection and will literally explode if they take a strike but it would be interesting to hear from somone who knows about composites and lightning strike protection?

Pace

[Romeo Tango]

IMHO thunderstorms in the UK are usually not too bad (there are exceptions!). They are not things to be disregarded but they are not instant death if you get within 5 miles of them.

Even if you end up inside one if you keep your head, keep the right way up, fly below maneuvering speed etc you should be ok. As I understand it structural failures tend to happen when an aircraft (ie pilot) gets upset, exceeds VNE and pulls up too sharply when falling out of the bottom.

In a certificated, bonded airframe lighting strikes are usually not a great problem.

If you look at reports of record breaking flights in Africa the pilots flew through the much worse African storms without disintegrating (though I expect not something they would want to do very often).

[Piper.Classique]

Some gliders are bonded. I own one, a standard Mucha. Polish, all wood and fabric construction. And braided cables everywhere with static dischargers. I think I will probably stay clear of thunderstorms, even so.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Now that we have the title sorted out, have to say it's a cracking photo!:ok:

[cockney steve]

have to say it's a crackling photo!

There, fixed it for you! An absolutely awesome illustration of Nature's power and the tiny mechanical butterflies we climb into.

[Pace]

I would be far more concerned with turbulence up and down draughts and icing in CBs than a lightening strike if your in a metal aircraft

Pace

[RS2]

Hi Folks,

I actually took the photo at Halfpenny Green and can confirm the aircraft had been on the ground for a while. The visiting pilot (from Tollerton I think) was actually swinging the aircraft around into wind on the main apron to the east of the tower as the storm arrived and the wind swung around. The lightning was just beyond the trees off taxiway Bravo so a reasonable distance away from the aircraft.

What you explain to people and what gets reported is a bit like Chinese whispers.

[mary meagher]

It is always tempting to tickle the bottom of a cunimb if you are flying a glider. The fluffy white fair weather cu that appear about 10 am on a nice British summer day only last about 20 minutes before dissipating, though if lined up downwind of the source in streets, can be very useful for dolphin flying. (this means flying fast in sink, slowly in lift, but not needing to circle in the lift to progress cross country).

But a big dark cumulus is especially promising, lasts longer, promises bigger updraughts. In the old days the bold pioneers of gliding flying their wooden ships ~(glide ratio of probably 30 to 1 or even better) set height records in cumulonimbus. This wasn't very safe as the gliders now and then came to grief, descending in pieces. Even a heavy human body caught in a cunimb updraft can be swept up to freezing levels.

Most modern gliders can tolerate an amazing thrashing; stubble fires were particularly interesting, and the updraft from the Didcot power station chimney would carry you up 3,000 feet in only a couple of turns, though the fumes were rather unpleasant.

I was using a nice bit of lift under a cunimb in Russia in l989, when it sparked. This led to my glider automatically getting the hell out of the vicinity, with no pause for dithering!

In Britain, cunim only seldom sparks, those that develop in the afternoon from fair weather cu are gentle benevolent creatures as a rule. The type of cu nimb that forms on the leading edge of a powerful Atlantic weather system is another creature entirely. as we noticed last Saturday.

In the United States and most large land masses, cunimb must be treated with the greatest respect. I had planned a cross country in a nice metal cherokee, from Corpus Christi back to Austin, Texas. The weatherman (an actual expert on the phone, NOT a recording) advised me not to proceed.
"On your route, madam, are embedded cu nimb with tops to 38,000, rain, hail and tornados. Do you still wish to file your flight plan?.......!"

er, on second thought, I think I'll put off the journey until tomorrow!