When noise complaints turn nasty. [Archive]

Fantome

22nd Jan 2014, 22:41

SEND IN THE CLOWNS

If the fuzz have not already called at every house from which a noise complaint has been made in recent years they are derelict in their duty.

Some highly sensitive residents have rung up to complain about a glider too close overhead. True. The answer for the skydivers might be a couple of Rottweillers. It will never be a security airfield. At least this century.

It has been alleged that some of the C208 pilots have operated the plane
with less consideration than others. But that is only hearsay.

There is a popular nudist beach a mile away. But that is not likely to be related.

The perpetrator or perpetrators are near the very bottom of the food chain.
Their dabs are more likely to be there than not.

djpil

22nd Jan 2014, 22:58

Similar incident at Moorabbin recently, I believe.

Wally Mk2

22nd Jan 2014, 23:44

Vandalism is rife all thru our society sadly these days & am not surprised at all that this event has happened, disappointed but not surprised.

Perhaps stand on the outside here looking in. Here we have some individual or individuals that are at their wits end re the noise. Now I live on acreage but have to endure my neighbors barking dogs whilst I try to sleep during the day so I can understand the frustration of some just a little & this is not condoning what these fools have done in anyway shape or form but I can understand in some small way what they did which has obviously higher ramifications than they realize here. Our judicial system shows a much higher level of understanding than any sane person can fathom by letting off criminal acts such as this with just a slap on the wrist, that's the real problem here not the actual act. This is obviously a last resort, humans can act way out of their normal comfort zone when pushed hard enough.
As Capt F alluded to here someone knows more than the average graffiti nut by disabling the A/C for more than just a days clean up value, that's the real concern here not the poor art work which just shows someone's low level of intell, there's more behind this than it appears I'd say.

Security at any Drome is only as good as the weakest link as this eg has shown.
Like 9/11 we where all caught off guard (we as in the western world).
Terrorism, acts of vandalism & even the morons on the other end of lasers aimed at A/c will continue once the initial reaction has passed.

I do hope they find these fools & make an Eg out of them as it might stop someone else in the future to do something similar, that's about the best we can hope for when humans are involved !

Wmk2

sarge75

22nd Jan 2014, 23:56

Alleged by whom??

They climb out to sea and back again, only in the circuit area for take off and landings.

Unless things have changed drastically, this has nothing to do with the pilots but rather some yuppies from near Byron thinking that the world is theirs and a long established business has no right to operate near them.

God I hope they catch these pricks and throw the book at them

RatsoreA

23rd Jan 2014, 00:41

God I hope they catch these pricks and throw the book at them

Couldn't agree more...

On a more disturbing note -

As Capt F alluded to here someone knows more than the average graffiti nut by disabling the A/C for more than just a days clean up value

How do they know that they didn't chuck a handful of loose nuts and bolts and rocks in the inlet of the engine?

You can't protect an airfield. Even in wartime, they knew that. The only thing they have a hope of protecting is the expensive bit, the airplane!

peterc005

23rd Jan 2014, 00:47

CIVIL AVIATION ACT 1988 - SECT 24

Interference with crew or aircraft
(1) A person commits an offence if:

(a) the person does an act; and

(b) the act:

(i) interferes with a crew member of an aircraft in the course of the performance of his or her duties as such a crew member; or

(ii) threatens the safety of an aircraft or of persons on board an aircraft.

Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.

(2) A person must not tamper with:

(a) an aircraft; or

(b) an aeronautical product that is of such a type that tampering with it may endanger the safety of an aircraft or any person or property;

if tampering with it may endanger the safety of the aircraft or any person or property.

Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.

*** In this case the penalty should include sharing a jail cell with a hairy, obese and randy person with same-sex intimate preferences. ***

onetrack

23rd Jan 2014, 00:54

Lets get the information straight. This is not simple graffitti or mindless vandalism, it's an immediately identifiable (if poorly-thought-out) protest - and the aviation people in that neck of the woods need to realise their "harmless fun" is impacting on some people lives so largely, that they feel the need to take this drastic action.

If the aviation people concerned don't take serious action to remedy the problem and recognise that our recreational behaviours can seriously impact on other people lives, then it will only get worse, and lives may be lost.

I wonder if the aviation people involved here would enjoy a jetskier blasting past their bedroom 30 times a day when they're trying to get some sleep after having done night shift?
A large % of our society sleeps during the day, and needs to have their requirements of modest noise levels observed.

sarge75

23rd Jan 2014, 01:05

One track.

You are right, we should stop all forms of aviation, every airport has noise issues. Those that move next door to an airstrip should have the right to close it down.

All airports should be relocated at least 10 miles from the nearest neighbour.

Problem solved.

lilflyboy262...2

23rd Jan 2014, 01:41

Sarge just beat me to it.

You move next to an airport, expect aircraft landing and taking off.

Its like living next to train tracks, expect to have trains going past.

You can't move to a place.... and then complain about the noise of something that is already established there.

onetrack

23rd Jan 2014, 02:26

Byron Shire council information is that "Tyagarah Aircraft Landing Area is not a certified or registered Airfield in accordance with the Civil Aviation Safety Regulation Part 139" :rolleyes: :hmm:

Tyagarah Airfield - Byron Shire Council (http://www.byron.nsw.gov.au/tyagarah-airfield)

Capn Bloggs

23rd Jan 2014, 02:58

You move next to an airport, expect aircraft landing and taking off.

Its like living next to train tracks, expect to have trains going past.

You can't move to a place.... and then complain about the noise of something that is already established there.
What evidence do you have that this operation was in place before the complainants moved into the area?

RAC/OPS

23rd Jan 2014, 03:13

Yeah, Lilflyboy from Canada! Of course Sarge is from Straya so knows our unique noise problems with airfields and complaining neighbours does not happen anywhere else in the world....

Capn Bloggs - what's your point?

kalavo

23rd Jan 2014, 03:21

What evidence do you have that this operation was in place before the complainants moved into the area?

Bit unrealistic to expect a Canadian to know the exact circumstances of one airfield in Australia.

The skydiving operation has been at Tyagarah for 20 years, the airfield is about 43 years old. Average age of first home owner being 30, would put the average complainant who bought before the airfield was opened in their 70s...

I can't exactly see a 70+ year old inflicting what has been done here?

RatsoreA

23rd Jan 2014, 03:22

What evidence do you have that this operation was in place before the complainants moved into the area?

It's not my post, but I would guess there would be an assumption that they must be quite new to the area, as there has been a wide variety of skydiving aircraft (I personally know of Queenairs, Navajos, Senecas, 182s, PAC750's and the caravan in question) over at least the better part of 20 years. All the aircraft I have seen take off and head straight out over the water and climb there.

And either way, it doesn't matter what side of the arguement you come down on, nothing gives anybody the right to do that. If you don't like the noise my car makes as I drive home at night, does that give you the right to go and cut my brakes? There are (legal!) avenues for complaining about noise.
My personal opinion is they can go and :mad: themselves, and harden up a little bit. 30 seconds of a slightly elevated decible level once an hour during daylight hours warrants such disgusting behaviour? I don't think so. :=

Capn Bloggs

23rd Jan 2014, 03:24

Capn Bloggs - what's your point?
The canadian is obviously accusing the complainants of moving in after the operation started, and therefore have no right to complain (with which I agree). I am merely asking him what evidence he has that that is actually the case ie that the op was there before the noise complainers moved in.

Or were the hillbillies there first?

Bit unrealistic to expect a Canadian to know the exact circumstances of one airfield in Australia.
He posted it, so he must be an expert on the situation...

RAC/OPS

23rd Jan 2014, 03:31

I'll spell it out just in case Lilflyboy thinks I'm having a go. I know for a fact that there is an active noise lobby at most airfields in the UK. I would bet that there is similar in Canada, the US, and probably most other countries where sport, recreational and even public transport aviation takes place.

Some of you blokes are giving the impression that it's an Australian problem and no one from ignorant overseas is allowed to express an opinion.

Parochial is one word that springs to mind!

j3pipercub

23rd Jan 2014, 03:35

I think lbf262 might be a NZer

Flying with some awful crew is trip Bloggs?

RAC/OPS

23rd Jan 2014, 03:36

....And in my experience that is the age old argument - the airport was there first, so anyone moving close by since has no grounds to complain - couldn't agree more. And as I know that Tyagarah was a PJE operation as long ago as the early 80's it is quite likely that most people have moved there since.

And that happens overseas as well, you know!

Why didn't you ask Sarge for his reasoning?

VH-XXX

23rd Jan 2014, 03:47

At our airfield we had a local that complained about the Tiger Moth flying over his house. The Tiger Moth very rarely ever follows the same flight path so in reality he was probably only flown over once or maybe twice a weekend.

He turned up one weekend and was using his phone to take closeup photos of the pilots, employeed and customers in the office, so he was upsetting customers. Once of the local pilots challenged him doing it and the complainant punched him in the face. No charges were laid however I don't believe he has complained since.

It's disappointing when complainants believe that they need to take it to the next level like this guy did.

Sunfish

23rd Jan 2014, 04:07

If its near Byron, its robably a couple of old hippy stoners that did it. There are some very nasty types up there. I suggest the cops look for someone who has recently moved into the area.

P.S. THe Byron hardware store may have CCTV footage of someone buying blue marking spray paint, caan't be too much of that around.

Capn Bloggs

23rd Jan 2014, 04:18

Gee willikers you lot, all I was asking was some facts from the Canadian to back up his position/claim (not opinion). Now a universal-expert-on-noise-at-all-the-world's-airfields pops up accusing me of being parochial.

500N

23rd Jan 2014, 04:19

Word will filter out. People like this will brag about it to mates
so eventually the names are likely to become known.

AussieNick

23rd Jan 2014, 04:32

@RAC/OPS: Before jumping down lilflyboy262's throat, have you considered he may be an Aussie living in Canada......

Irrespective of weather the operation was there before or after folks moved in to the area and began to have issues with noise etc etc, vandalizing an aircraft, not to mention any tampering that we, on the forum, cannot see from the photo, is no way to get a resolution to any perceived problems.

I see the Tyagarah airfield has a number to call for noise complaints, they should have taken their complaint there. Not damaged an aircraft that has the potential to now cost a local business thousands of dollars, cost the pilot/pilots and other staff money as they cannot operate. Has the potential to drive other owners and users of the airfield away as they now cannot be confident their aircraft will be safe and secure, which could again, potentially remove more money from the community, all because someone threw a tanty.

RAC/OPS

23rd Jan 2014, 05:02

AussieNick - I was defending Lilflyboy's statement. Another poster seems to have a problem with someone from not Australia having his say. I was trying to point out that noise problems are more universal than some of the more insular would believe.

Pinky the pilot

23rd Jan 2014, 05:19

Never had that sort of action here but one time a somewhat annoyed female walked into the local Gliding Club's office to complain about the tugs overflying her newly constructed house and upsetting their peace!

The Office Manager quietly asked her; ''Why on earth did you build a house right under the circuit area of an operational airfield, and one that has been so for about the last thirty years?''

The answer was along the lines of......'ummm....errr....':confused:

She left the office without saying another word.

Ultralights

23rd Jan 2014, 05:57

''Why on earth did you build a house right under the circuit area of an operational airfield, and one that has been so for about the last thirty years?''

because its cheap! and with enough complaining and whinging, the airport will close, just ask the real estate agent he told me so, when airport closes = Profit!

and the aviation people in that neck of the woods need to realise their "harmless fun" is impacting on some people lives so largely, that they feel the need to take this drastic action.

as is most often the case, the serial noise complainers who are so adversely impacted by severe aircraft noise, have been proven, time and time again, that they are serial complainers with no hard evidence to back up their whinging. Take Sonja from wollongong, she generated 95% of all aircraft complaints when living at Bankstown, her husband generated 4%.

She has since moved on, and bought approx 500mtrs beside the approach to runway 26 at Wollongong, next to a train line. and sure enough, the complaints come rolling in.

Myself and another sky dive operator there have been called by Council to answer her allegations of us deliberately flying over her house when departing runway 26, (my aircraft is similar paint scheme to the skydive aircraft) she claimed on a certain days we deliberately tracked off centreline and directly over her house.
fortunately for myself and the skydive operator, the GPS has a long track memory. proving neither of our aircraft never used runway 26/08 on the days in question and every time since, we have been proving her wrong with factual track info.

Another was at a small airfield on the south coast, many lawsuits later, and many taxpayer funds wasted, sound recordings done independently proved that the aircraft noise from the complainants locations (there were a group of complainers who went as far as forming an association to complain) didn't even register above background noise. their logic seams to be, i can see it, therefore i hear it and must complain as it effects me... (despite court ordered evidence to the contrary).

these types complain for the sake of complaining, and sadly, these types do have issues that lead them to believe they are being adversely effected by aircraft noise that drives them to commit such acts.

Wally Mk2

23rd Jan 2014, 06:22

I can see from the rapid replies that are being put up here means that this is a social problem, not so much the actual plane it's about people living in a stress induced world for all sorts of reasons.
As has been mentioned here already these clowns will most likely get caught as this is not an everyday occurrence & someone will say something & the cat will be out of the bag but that doesn't solve a thing really as humans have perfected the art of monkey see monkey do!.

Will it happen again? Most likely. How do we handle it? Ah now there's a whole other subject that is starting to show thru meaning discipline or lack thereof from an early age where respect for other people & their property has long since been diss-guarded. You can see it in the eyes of school kids, no respect & no power to the educators to deal with it, who do we blame? OURSELVES!

Wmk2

Old Wannabe

23rd Jan 2014, 06:55

Folks may very well remember the attempt by a noisy few who live close by the Caloundra airport a few years back to close that airport due to “noisy and dangerous” operation of aircraft, primarily rotary aircraft. At the time Chopperline bent over backwards to appease this very vocal minority. In about 2011 the local Council (who administer the airport) and the State Government (who own the airport) tipped a bucket of cold water on the debate by ruling that the airport stays.
On 16 Jan 2014 and letter appeared in the local paper (Caloundra Weekly) which I feel I must transcribe here as evidence of the mentality of these airport noise protestors. It reads:

“Words drowned out.
BELLS Reach and Belvista residents need to know that Noosa Council has just voted to restrict helicopters using Teewah air strip.
If Saturday, January 11 and Sunday 12th’s activity is a guide, 40-plus movements on Saturday and 40-plus movements on Sunday, these operators have already relocated.
“Becker” had two machines, and there was also a blue and yellow contraption operating continuously on both days over the estates. During this time it was impossible to have a conversation on the verandah.
Our local councilor does not live in the area and I suspect will do nothing or little about the situation, but I for one will not give up until we receive the consideration and respect we deserve from these operators and council.
People power can change this, and I think we can.
Shouldn’t be too hard: phone calls, letters, email, Facebook, Twitter, use whatever means you can to put an end to this blatant abuse of our privacy and rights."
(signed) Maurie Woodward, Belvista

As you well know Mr. Woodward, the Caloundra airport has been there for some 40 years. Belvista was developed in the last 10 to 15 years and Bells Reach only opened last year. You knew there was an airport there and you choose to live there. Residents of Bells Reach have to sign a disclaimer when purchasing acknowledging that their properties are as close as 60 metres to the runway and cannot complain about noise.

Regarding the Noosa Councils statement that they are banning all except emergency movements are the Teewah airstrip, good luck guys. The airstrip is owned by the National Parks and situated within a National Park. The closest house is a few kilometres from the airstrip and the toffee nosed wingers in the Noosa area are only complaining about aircraft overflying their homes (legally) at 1000 + feet. I am not a pilot but am sick and tired of the winging, wailing and lies issuing from this brainless minority who have nothing better to do with their lives. Sometimes I wonder if they really do have a life at all.

RatsoreA

23rd Jan 2014, 07:00

Look no further than here for the types of idiots that are out there looking for something to complain about -

Index (http://www.planecrashzone.com/index.html)

Ultralights -

deliberately tracked off centreline and directly over her house
Can you please tell me exactly where this CCL house is, so when I am next in the Gong, I can ... ah ... take special precautions to ...err... AVOID overflying?! :}

Jack Ranga

23rd Jan 2014, 08:17

One look from Al will have the perps cowering. One hour of ICUS with Al will have the perps begging for police action.

If the local filth can't work out who this was they should be transferred to the Cross. I reckon if someone paid my wages for a fortnight I could work it out. When I found out who it was I would use the doods that are very effective at debt recovery, they ride motorcycles.

lilflyboy262...2

23rd Jan 2014, 08:23

Holy sweet jesus.

Do none of you realize that you can move overseas?

Heck, I'm not even in Canada anymore.

Jack Ranga

23rd Jan 2014, 08:26

No they don't flyboy. Why would you move from the epicentre of world aviation? Worlds best aviation practice here mateyboy ;)

Skydiveandy

23rd Jan 2014, 09:18

Do you both think that because my current location is Indonesia, that I must therefore be an Indonesian citizen..

Guys, please don't assume you know who or where someone is from or their background for that matter..

I am currently sitting in my room in Nabire, West Papua (Indonesia). I have over 200 hours on that actual aircraft VH-UMV,

You know what they say when you ass/u/me something ;)

Andy

cowl flaps

23rd Jan 2014, 10:16

Seems at least two people involved. Two different styles of handwriting and (to my eye) different coloured paint. The paint on the windscreen wasn't sprayed either. Maybe a leftover can one of the germs had in the shed.

Hempy

23rd Jan 2014, 10:29

MA15+
Frequent Coarse Language

The best bit is about 00:20 sec mark, you can hear another one in the background :}

Da7rjHT61uk

p.s just to lighten the mood!

Ultralights

23rd Jan 2014, 10:35

that was awesome! despite having signs around everywhere, warning of aircraft noise, they still complain.

I lived in sight of the salt ash range when at williamtown, loved the friday morning shows! and sounds..

SgtBundy

23rd Jan 2014, 11:15

I used to drive to Tyagrah most weekends as a teenager (16 odd years ago) so my sister could go horse riding up there. Last time I went through there I recall a much wider and faster highway now runs through the middle of the area which I would bet makes more noise constantly than any aircraft. From google maps the area is just as isolated as it used to be and the only nearby properties are all rural.

I would wager its some new resident expecting to move into hippy town and is upset they can't hear the whale songs they expected while lit up.

Maybe some Rhino drivers could do some practice airfield attacks on the way back from Evans Head, show them some real aircraft noise.

Hempy

23rd Jan 2014, 11:23

Maybe some Rhino drivers could do some practice airfield attacks on the way back from Evans Head, show them some real aircraft noise.

Pigs (RIP) used to show more than just noise at Evans Head, they rained some destruction as well!

CAG6H9M6gZo

envoy

23rd Jan 2014, 11:30

That recording was awesome! Took me back to my days at a base in Queensland where I had the (brief) responsibility for fielding noise complaints from tax payers. I have copped similar spray over a telephone line, and it is quite a challenge to maintain composure.

Some of the complaints were genuine, occasionally heartfelt and on one or two occasions, very sad. Most of the time, you were a focus for stress relief, and once they had let off steam they were generally pretty happy.

Once in a while there were some pearlers. One new local who had recently purchased property (at significant discount) directly under short finals wanted us to re align the runway so arrivals and departures would avoid his farm. "Steer her into the wind, cap'n!"

Another sincere request came from a woman who assured me that her son was very knowledgeable about aircraft, and therefore knew full well that they could fly at 30000 feet and "even higher". Why, then, did they have to come in and land so low?

Sorry for the topic creep... back to the studio!

Edit: Hempy's post shows a flyover of the Range Hut at Evans Head... the damage was NOT part of the annual operating budget...

j3pipercub

23rd Jan 2014, 11:55

I would be starting my line of enquiry with this person:

Aircraft noise an issue at Tyagarah - Echonetdaily (http://www.echo.net.au/2014/01/aircraft-noise-issue-tyagarah/)

then acquire all noise complaints dating back 3 years

500N

23rd Jan 2014, 12:24

She runs commercial self catering apartments so has a vested interest.

See the names listed as hosts.

Julians Apartments | Byron Bay - NSW Accommodation | Drive Australia (http://www.driveaustralia.com.au/racv/accommodation/info/54343/julian-s-apartments/)

cowl flaps

23rd Jan 2014, 12:30

Maybe someone very local has acquired the services of some local scum bags,- rewarding them with grog and/or a bag of dope to do the deed.

cowl flaps

23rd Jan 2014, 12:37

Host(s): Madelyn Devlin, Julie Rhodes & Susana Gardavsky.

The plot thickens !

onetrack

23rd Jan 2014, 12:53

The ANO has an excellent write-up about aircraft noise - and I feel the general line he is taking, is that too many new housing developments are being pushed by unscrupulous developers, in areas where aircraft noise is highly discernable and at a conversation-ruining level - and that these developers quite possibly are not making it clear to buyers, what the aircraft noise levels are likely to be.

He also points out that Council information about aircraft noise is also likely to be generalised and not informative enough for many buyers.
He mentions the pertinent point, that many people are capable of coping with high levels of aircraft noise, whilst others have a very low level of discomfort.

http://www.ano.gov.au/reportsstats/reports/ANO_truth_about_aircraft_noise.pdf

500N

23rd Jan 2014, 13:09

Can airports put caveats or whatever they are called on surrounding land
to pre warn any buyers that the airport is there and that is it.

I seem to remember quite a few years ago people getting up in arms
about Melbourne and the Gov't clamped down. I know it is a different
scale but was wondering.

Fantome

23rd Jan 2014, 13:21

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000ROizwsYEfEQ/s/750/750/04AUS-30132-Dog-Line-Memorial-Eaglehawk-Neck.jpg (http://photoseek.photoshelter.com/image/I0000ROizwsYEfEQ)

SgtBundy

23rd Jan 2014, 13:30

Pigs (RIP) used to show more than just noise at Evans Head, they rained some destruction as well!

Yup - did a cadet visit to that range and stood on that portable building for a flyby like that, although I am guessing that one was not subsonic :)

Wallsofchina

23rd Jan 2014, 18:26

I think Capt Fathom provided a good clue. Not only would they have had to know where the tanks were, but what sort of tool to bring along to puncture them. If any workshop paint was used that's also a clue.
I wouldn't rule out an inside job - angry employee etc.

500N

23rd Jan 2014, 18:40

Just a comment re the Nazi symbol, albeit a very bad one.

Firstly, it looks to be a bit of an after thought.

Secondly, it is not something you see much of in Aus.

Thirdly, some people below a certain age I doubt would
know what it is.

So does that lead to someone older ?

Wizofoz

23rd Jan 2014, 19:38

Thirdly, some people below a certain age I doubt would
know what it is.

I guess your kids don't play "Call Of Duty"!!

Kids get a VERY good taste of WW2 history from many angles.

500N

23rd Jan 2014, 19:46

I don't have kids but agree re that game. But before that ?

scrufflefish

23rd Jan 2014, 20:46

I think cowl flaps (#54) is probably on the right track. I live locally and worked at Tyagarah for 10 years, mostly flying DH82, C172 and microlights, but also some para ops in their old C182.
The noise complaints were constant, and the source of the problem was usually training ops from Cooly, but Tyagarah always got blamed.
The parachute operation there tries to minimise noise impact where possible, but are often required to climb over land, and some pilots are not as thoughtful as others about their impact on locals. When they are busy, which is most of the summer, ops are often early am to dusk, 7 days/week with a turnaround time of 20-30 mins, so I can understand it will be annoying to some locals, but I can confirm that all the serious complainants over the years have been recent arrivals who bought near the strip and then got upset. At one point a very well off one offered to pay the Council the equivalent of the revenue the strip was generating if they would close it!!

On the other hand, the parachute operation has become very big and there is a lot of money being made, and it is evident that this often takes precedence over other issues.
It is not an all weather strip and at times the Council closes it due to rain. The jump plane usually continues to operate with the result that the strip becomes unusable to other operators due to the huge ruts created, and this has caused damage to other aircraft. This cavalier attitude reached a point last year when the strip was closed while Council workers were filling ruts caused by the skydive aircraft. There were a number of workers and a truck in the middle of the strip about 200-300 metres in from the eastern end. All operators had been informed about it, but the 208 taxied out past the large "Strip Closed" sign and took off over the workers. Everyone at Tyagarah realises that we need to work with Council to keep the strip open and maintained, this sort of behaviour doesn't help.
(Apologies for thread creep).

Update, just informed by a reliable source at Tyagarah that the tanks have been temporarily patched and the aircarft flown out for repairs.

Nose wheel first

23rd Jan 2014, 21:18

I hope they catch the clowns who did this and not only throw the book at them but belt them over the head with it..... twice!

VH-XXX

23rd Jan 2014, 21:28

Good to hear from a local perspective there scrufflefish. There are certain elements of cowboy'ism being displayed there from what you have described, so perhaps the locals do have something to whinge about. My inlaws live near 10nm from a drop zone and if you're in the garden or the shed you can constantly hear a couple of parachuting aircraft operating so I can imagine it might get a bit tiring if you lived closer. I would be p.i.s.s.e.d if I bought a place 5 miles from an airport and the air traffic doubled in the years following. Many of us go to our airports on the weekend, go off flying, come back and go home again so don't really experience it from a locals perspective. (not suggesting that this was deserved of course)

Does this aircraft do the round to other drop zones? I'm pretty sure that I saw it being "hot fuelled" on a number of occasions :ouch:

Jack Ranga

23rd Jan 2014, 21:32

It has done the rounds, got a few hours in it! If you buy near an airport and the traffic doubles, still your problem ;)

Hot refuelling is in the ops manual, is legal & perfectly acceptable in this operation.

500N

23rd Jan 2014, 21:38

VH

"I would be p.i.s.s.e.d if I bought a place 5 miles from an airport and the air traffic doubled in the years following."

Come on, that's the same argument those NIMBY wankers in Sunbury and Western Suburbs of Melbourne have been using re complaining re the number of flights from Tulla and the building of the new runway.

They knew the airport was there before they purchased.

scrufflefish

23rd Jan 2014, 21:42

Have seen hot fuelling on numerous occasions, I understand that the TBO of the PT6 is based on cycles as well as hours, and at 14 mins wheels off to wheels on they will run out of cycles before hours if its shut down after each sortie, hence the hot refuelling (have also seen it done as pax are loading). Carrying more fuel is not an option if you want to put 17 or 18 jumpers in it.
Years ago when I did a bit of jumping there, a crowd of fun jumpers started piling into a 208, one of whom was the owner. Someone did a head count and there were 22 jumpers on board, the owner said "She'll be right, lets go!" I was lucky enough to be out of the crush in the only passenger seat, next to the pilot, and the low fuel warning light was flashing as we taxied out..........

sarge75

23rd Jan 2014, 21:56

"It is not an all weather strip and at times the Council closes it due to rain. The jump plane usually continues to operate with the result that the strip becomes unusable to other operators due to the huge ruts created, and this has caused damage to other aircraft"

Funny this.

When the council were going to close the strip, the company would get warning and operate out of Ballina. Over the 4 years I was associated with the company, this happened a lot.

The huge ruts? The caravans operating at Tyagarah would have large wheels, the ruts were caused by planes with much smaller wheels.

farmer dan

23rd Jan 2014, 22:01

@scruff: easy fix, just pull out the annanciators...:hmm:

scrufflefish

23rd Jan 2014, 22:06

With all due respect sarge, I've flown at Tyagarah for 18 years and continue to do so, have spent a couple of years living on site and operated my Tiger there commercially for 6 years. I've been an instructor, a skydiver and charter pilot. Sometimes skydive moves their op to Ballina when its wet, and Council allowed them to take off empty to relocate even though the strip was closed, a fair compromise. They have since started abusing that privilege by taking off on a wet strip with a full load, then by just operating normally at Tyagarah when its closed, with a "Fcuk you" attitude to other users. The damage is done by the 208, fact. You don't want to hear that from me, ask any other user. I can refer you to the Gliding Club, The current DH82 operator, the helo owner, the ultralight pilots etc etc.

MakeItHappenCaptain

23rd Jan 2014, 22:12

I was lucky enough to be out of the crush in the only passenger seat, next to the pilot, and the low fuel warning light was flashing as we taxied out..........

That will happen when you are taxiing on minimum fuel and you turn the aircraft, causing the fuel to slosh around. When it goes steady, then you have 25 gal. remaining. If you don't know what you're talking about, it can be concerning, but not in itself dangerous.:ok:

VH-XXX

23rd Jan 2014, 22:14

Hot refuelling is in the ops manual, is legal & perfectly acceptable in this operation.

Not when there is nobody at the controls or even in the aircraft... :ouch:

Fantome

23rd Jan 2014, 22:39

As of last Sunday there was a 3-4 metre wide soft sandy patch near to the centreline about 200 metres from the 05 threshold.

A place deserving of a close look first. Generally speaking.

sarge75

23rd Jan 2014, 22:41

"They have since started abusing that privilege by taking off on a wet strip with a full load, then by just operating normally at Tyagarah when its closed, with a "Fcuk you" attitude to other users."

Sad to hear. A pity, as it didn't used to be that way. Left a couple of years ago so sounds like things have gone downhill.

scrufflefish

24th Jan 2014, 02:31

MakeItHappenCaptain (http://www.pprune.org/members/123320-makeithappencaptain), yes, I wasn't worried once the pilot pointed that out, and anyway I had one more parachute than he did! :ok:

Jack Ranga

24th Jan 2014, 09:55

X, you need to get amongst a turbine operation like this, then you'll see what's safe and what's not ;)

emergency000

24th Jan 2014, 11:11

A large % of our society sleeps during the day, and needs to have their requirements of modest noise levels observed.

What an absolute crock. The overwhelming majority of our society is at work or school during the day, or at the very least, they're awake. Unless you happen to be hanging around with junkies in DHS accommodation. Otherwise, how do you explain that the traffic is roughly 5 times heavier when I'm driving to work at 7 am than when I'm coming off night shift at 5 am? Why are shops open during the day and closed at night?

I've worked night shifts many times while living with neighbours who seemed to enjoy loud music, loud cars and loud arguments. And I got through it, without feeling the need to run off to the council or the body corporate to complain. Why? Because I'm the one sleeping at different times to everyone else and they were there first, so I've no right to complain.

Sounds to me like the residents surrounding Tyagarah need to swallow a shovelful of cement and harden the f*** up.

Old Akro

24th Jan 2014, 21:52

We never seem to see people who buy houses next to railway lines campaign for their closure. Or freeways. Or industrial complexes. Its only airports that seem to be whipping boys. This is probably aided by developers who see profit in subdividing airports, but at some point we just need to toughen up and be less apologetic.

At my home airport one of the main complainants lives next door to a cement plant and the other backs onto the railway line. And they complain about aircraft noise!

peterc005

24th Jan 2014, 23:09

I think a lot of the people who complain about aircraft noise has underlying personal issues.

It's not just airports, the same type of people also complain about things like wind farms. They ignore the fact that years of research found that wind farms do not lead to health issues, instead they blame wind farms as the reason why their lives are unhappy.

Maybe it's worse around Byron Bay, where there is more of a drug culture and the associated psychosis.

500N

24th Jan 2014, 23:56

Akro

Didn't the Vic State Gov't fix the issue via law regarding complaints
about Tullamarine ?

65er

25th Jan 2014, 01:01

Security seems lax just about everywhere i go.
Caloundra a good case in point - gates left open, inadequate fencing, and broken combination security locks. Surely the local council is responsible for at least a modicum of maintenance considering what they charge the local building / land lessees.
A bit more security may have helped limit the loss of fuel from my aircraft parked there :*

Fris B. Fairing

25th Jan 2014, 03:07

Speaking of Caloundra ...

http://www.adastron.com/aviation/vault/ycdr-noise.jpg

These have been distributed in recent weeks despite the 2010 announcements by the Council and the Qld Govt that the airport stays.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

spinex

25th Jan 2014, 03:25

Oh goodie, another email address to hand over to the spam merchants:p
[email protected]

Sadly though these oxygen thieves can't just be ignored, they tread a well worn path of a noisy minority swaying the pollies who can't see beyond the next election - next thing you know 2% of the population have F@&% it for the rest of us.

Jabawocky

25th Jan 2014, 05:38

Hang on a minute, they want above 1500' do they? So how do you land or take off. CCT height is 1000' at YCDR.

Maybe everyone should fly choppers up there......they can orbit up and down over the airfield :}

Morons :ugh:......Airfield was there long before the developers sold land to the idiots.

:mad:

yssy.ymel

25th Jan 2014, 06:47

Slightly OT, but this is the sort of d*ckhead that causes the problem:

Angry Kellyville resident Henry Romanowski is the city's expert at airing grievances | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/angry-kellyville-resident-henry-romanowski-is-the-citys-expert-at-airing-grievances/story-e6frfq80-1226513330742)

Two thirds of the complaints, and 31 km from the threshold. If I recall correctly, approach is at or above 9000' at that point. There are very few departures that would even affect him.

And doesn't he just look smug.

emergency000

25th Jan 2014, 08:13

I guess he has to do something in his boredom now that he's obviously retired... *coughtwatcough*

scrufflefish

25th Jan 2014, 09:19

"Who owns UMV now? McV or....."

Update: UMV is owned by McV, it was apparently flown in the day before the incident to replace Byron Skydive's aircraft which was away for maintenance, it has now returned.
Very bad luck for Al.

JustJoinedToSearch

27th Jan 2014, 00:54

Should just print out CAR157, highlight:

(4) Subregulation (1) does not apply if:
(e) the aircraft (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/car1988263/s5.64.html#aircraft) is flying in the course of actually taking-off or landing at an aerodrome (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/car1988263/s5.179.html#aerodrome); or

Add a nice friendly smiley face and pin it right on the bottom.

Tinstaafl

27th Jan 2014, 03:08

Include Sub-reg 1. with the 1000' minimum too. Subreg 1. could be pinned next to their 1500' verbiage.

MakeItHappenCaptain

27th Jan 2014, 09:20

Caloundra Aerodrome Fly Neighbourly Policy

Helicopter Operations
As an operator of Helicopter Operations at Caloundra Aerodrome _____________________________ is committed to undertaking operations in a Fly Neighbourly manner. We commit to undertake our operations in a manner which is considerate to local residents whilst maintaining safe operation of the helicopter.
We will do so by endeavouring to adhere to the following principles:
 All pilots to plan all flights to minimise flights over built up areas
 Wherever possible, use satellite strips for helicopter circuit operations
 Avoid flying low over populated areas
 Avoid tight manoeuvres and turns while operating helicopters over populated areas
 Oval circuits at 500ft for helicopters is preferred remaining within the airport boundary where possible
 A maximum of 5 aircraft in the circuit area at any time
 No training to occur between the hours of 1900 and 0700
 Night training available for Caloundra based operators between 1900 and 2100 Monday to Friday only
 Ensure that environmental and noise issues are included in pilot training
 Respond to community enquiries about noise in a co-operative manner

Fixed Wing Operations
As an operator of general aviation activities at Caloundra Aerodrome ____________________________ is committed to undertaking operations in a Fly Neighbourly manner. We commit to undertaking our operations in a manner which is considerate to local residents, whilst maintaining safe operation of the aircraft.
We will do so by endeavouring to adhere to the following principles:
 Compliance with noise abatement procedures included in the ERSA
 All pilots to plan all flights to minimise flight over built up areas
 Wherever practicable runway departure to use full length in order to maximise height over populated areas
 Consider using satellite strips for aircraft circuit operations
 Avoid flying low over populated areas
 Minimise engine failure training over populated areas
 No training to occur between the hours of 1900 and 0700
 Night training available for Caloundra based operators between 1900 and 2100 Monday to Friday only
 No engine ground running for the purpose of engine testing to occur between the hours of 1900 and 0700 (unless approved by the Airport General Manager for extenuating circumstances)
 Ensuring that all non pre flight engine runs are undertaken in the designated run-up area
 Ensuring that environmental awareness and noise issues are included in pilot training
 Responding to community inquiries about noise in a cooperative manner.

Funny, their own fly neighbourly policy doesn't say anything about their 1,500' limit (that is "NOT OK" and referenced in their propaganda).

Ps. Personally, I liked low level circuits, especially at 11am on a Sunday morning, right after an abusive phone call about how inconsiderate I was for disturbing a late morning sleep in.:E

emergency000

27th Jan 2014, 09:46

We never seem to see people who buy houses next to railway lines campaign for their closure. Or freeways. Or industrial complexes.

Around Melbourne there are numerous places on our freeways with signs which say "TRUCKS AVOID USING ENGINE BRAKES". These are always around a downhill gradient (when said trucks NEED to use said engine brakes to maintain a safe speed) and are almost always where residential areas have been built directly adjacent to the freeway.

A personal favourite of mine when I've done the occasional drive of a B-double up the Hume is passing Beveridge on the way back into Melbourne around 7-8 am on a Saturday morning. There's another of these signs there. So, of course, because it's a downhill gradient, I ensure I click my engine brakes on :E Can't have trucks speeding now, can we?

Speaking of, a few years ago there was some uni student who'd just moved into a house that's on one of the main thoroughfares for trucks in Melbourne and he was whinging to the paper about how he couldn't get any sleep. Nevermind that there's a curfew in place on the road between 6 pm - 6 am... Obviously, being a student, he was up all night and trying to sleep all day.

So airports aren't the only ones copping a whack. I'm sure railways and heavy industry come in for a serve now and again, but all these are nothing when it comes to the angst directed at airports.

yssy.ymel

1st Feb 2014, 00:41

I see UMV doing a few circuits at YRED on FlightAware. Looks like she's been patched up and ready to head back down south to annoy the locals.

cattletruck

1st Feb 2014, 01:02

Having once lived up them neck of the woods I used to enjoy the sound of an F-111 doing a low level practice bombing run near Evans Head :ok:

Now that is noise!

My friend who was born in Byron Bay used to say the place was full of brats from Sydney rebelling against their rich parents. That was my observation too.

Just ignore their protests much like their parents, and if you catch them then teach them a thing or two about adult life.

Jabawocky

1st Feb 2014, 04:27

Wherever possible, use satellite strips for helicopter circuit operations

Yeah......so the complaints are then at YRED or YCAB :rolleyes:

Great idea.

MakeItHappenCaptain

1st Feb 2014, 09:57

Wherever possible, use satellite strips for helicopter circuit operations.

They do that at Sunshine Coast, using Teewah strip, a set of small crossed runways to the north in a national park area with less people permanently living near it than on the Sun (North Koreans excepted:E) and yet there is a massive push from Noosa residents to get its use prohibited.

Why?

Transiting helicopters. I believe part of the council's separation from the "amalgamated councils situation" propaganda was that "we will stop the overflights and use of the strip!"

A. Teewah strip. It's in a national park. Council has less say in it than Kevvy at a Jooliar fan convention.

B. Overflying. See statement A.

:ugh::ugh::rolleyes::hmm:

Jabawocky

1st Feb 2014, 12:07

And one day when they need a medivac team in a helo, are they going to complain about the noise coming to get them? :hmm:

:ugh:

Lancair70

1st Feb 2014, 19:34

Noise complaints at Tyagarah are not new at all.
We had complaints when I flew skydivers there in the late 80's and VH-DPI was a HELL of lot noisier and slower to climb than the C208's.

Maybe the current owners need to install security like Cptn Ron L had. Two fierce dobermans let loose in the hanger at night. Maybe they need some deterents chained up around the van ?

And totally agree, that an hour of ICUS with Al, would have them calling the cops :ouch: I've witnessed new trainee pilots leave, after session with Al in a C182, almost in tears after he stripped any sense of "Sky God" like thinking from them. Some deserved it and some just rubbed him the wrong way.

Freewheel

3rd Feb 2014, 08:21

Jaba,

They already do......

Flying Binghi

3rd Feb 2014, 09:14

via emergency000:
...A personal favourite of mine when I've done the occasional drive of a B-double up the Hume is passing Beveridge on the way back into Melbourne around 7-8 am on a Saturday morning. There's another of these signs there. So, of course, because it's a downhill gradient, I ensure I click my engine brakes on Can't have trucks speeding now, can we?...

Yep, its a nice feeling when yer got the backup of cool wheel brakes..;)

Some do overdo it though...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z3bLqjPBlx8

emergency000

3rd Feb 2014, 09:24

Yes, he's quite obviously showing off for the camera though. And likely sporting aftermarket 6" pipes or larger! Using the Jakes for that amount of time to pull up a single? Showing off...

Pappa Smurf

3rd Feb 2014, 23:00

That ones out in the sticks,but near civilization I would prefer to hear jake breaks over the noise of my fence getting flattened,wondering if the house is next.
I think a Harley makes more noise.

T28D

4th Feb 2014, 04:11

A day in that cab would be a nightmare

Old Wannabe

5th Feb 2014, 05:35

Following are two letters to the Editor published in the Caloundra Weekly ...Thursday January 30, 2014 ...page 34/35

"CHOPPER HORROR
I totally agree with all of what Maurie Woodward, Belvista (Caloundra Weekly, January 16) had to say, and congratulate him for bringing the topic up for all to see. He beat me to it!
I would also add, on Monday January 13, this helicopter, a strange one, not the usual bubble type, was creating havoc around my area. I had my almost three-year-old great granddaughter in the garden with me.
She ran screaming inside calling: BIG NOISE! and she had both hands over her ears. I consoled her and watched the helicopter going around and around our area. Then it headed towards the airport, but not the usual path, I (sic) went straight down the length of our garden towards Bell's Reach, where it hovered for a while, then went up and down in a line, over that area until it was out of my sight. It looked more square and boxy, and longer than normal, and it was white.
We admit we knew we were close to an airport when we built our home here in 2001/2, but we came each day to the site and only heard the occasional plane, so we thought, well that's not so bad. How wrong we were. We are now being drowned out by unthoughtful helicopter people. Have they no thought for other people who also work, everyday of the week and need a break on a Saturday and Sunday?
Here we go again, yesterday, and today, Sunday, January 19."
(signed) Doreen Hewitt
Caloundra West

Then we have this pearl following the above.

"BECKER BLAST
We read with interest the Words drowned out letter in your January 16 edition. As Pelican Waters residents, we can empathise with Maurie. Sunday, January 19 we were blasted with the red and white Becker helicopter completing some 100-plus movements over five hours from 8am until just after 1pm. All circuits no more than 30 meters over houses in Pelican Waters. At one stage, I was mowing the lawn and could still hear the helicopter over the noise of the lawn mower.
Our are is basically unlivable during these times. We fully support the people-power suggestion made by Maurie and will not be suffering in silence. If we do not let them know this is unacceptable, we will continue to be abused."
(Signed) CONCERNED PELICAN WATERS RESIDENTS

I think that both of these letters are an excellent indication of the selfish and moronic mentality of a minority of residents in the vicinity of the Caloundra Airport.

I would say them IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT - LEAVE!

Ixixly

5th Feb 2014, 06:32

"How dare those Helicopter people train near MY house that I knowingly built near an airport... they should all be forced way out into the bush where there is no one and I don't care if it costs more for them to train and as a result there are less of them and they are less qualified. But I still expect them to be fully trained and qualified and nearby to pull my ass and the ass of my 3 year old grandchild out of a bad situation."

Similarly:

"The Government is doing a poor job of utilising the assets it has to make money for the communities they represent, they should do more...except on the airport because of my house I built not too long ago near to it...but everything else!"

Fris B. Fairing

5th Feb 2014, 21:09

http://www.adastron.com/aviation/vault/YCDR-03OCT74.jpg

Draw your own conclusions.

CHAIRMAN

6th Feb 2014, 12:14

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/rone37/YRED1974_zps00ce9856.jpg (http://s747.photobucket.com/user/rone37/media/YRED1974_zps00ce9856.jpg.html)

YRED 1974. Look closely you'll probably find me there! Recognize the hangar Jaba!

Jabawocky

7th Feb 2014, 00:50

Yep....and is that Dave Youngs Bo pointing north :E

And where did you find that one? Actually dont answer that....you will incriminate yourself by vintage :}

Wokster didnt exist :uhoh:

Tinstaafl

7th Feb 2014, 03:11

I learnt to fly at a school that was based in that big hangar at YRED. Was in the early '80s though, not '70s.

CHAIRMAN

7th Feb 2014, 10:37

Tinnie, the particular pic is circa Aug '76. Taken by a professional local newsie prior to a big Redcliffe airshow (Bob Eastgate's Mustang flown by Jack McDonald was the star attraction!).
Big hangar was Norm Thurecht's 'Redcliffe Flying Services'. Think that may be his C340 out front, or maybe his Baron.
Sorry Jaba, that's the aero clubs PA28 VH-WMR. The tail dragger is a Miles Falcon, captured enroute to somewhere south. And Jaba will recognize the dark vehicle outside the aero club.

Anyway, slightly off thread. Noise complaints are coming thick and fast at YRED now. Latest ERSA says 'residential areas to be avoided at all times':ugh: