TO/GA Wars: Advantage Airbus?

[Winnerhofer]

Does Airbus win the TO/GA round?
I find that in this case that Airbus for once has the logical edge regarding TO/GA.
If on Boeing you forget to arm A/T and TO/GA, you end up on the wrong end of the pineapple stick but with Airbus you just slam A/THR in the TO/GA detent and Bob's your uncle.
Does anyone have experience of both A330 and B777 TO/GA?
Which is more logical?

[cosmo kramer]

Not very logical to get full-rated 2 engine go-around thrust, for a normal go-around where you only have to climb a few thousand feet. Not very logical to get 6000 fpm climb rate, not very pax friendly and not so super for congested airspace. Not that clever with regards to pilot workload.

On Boeing, you may have to advance the thrust levers manually (oh god!), if PM monitoring doesn't reach in and arm the auto throttle. Or if SOP permit, you may leave it armed from the get go. There is really nothing to be confused about, if you are a proficient pilot..

[cosmo kramer]

What's a pineapple stick and who is Bob, by the way??

[Silvio Pettirossi]

On the Airbus you dont need to go-around climbing at full rated power at 6000 fpm just for a few thousand feet and then brutaly level of at your go-aruond altitude like a rollercoaster.
If you are discontinuing your approach above the thrust reduction altitude, you just push the thrust levers into TOGA briefly to put the beast into go around mode, and than inmediatly pull back the levers into the climb detend to fly the missed.
Thats the logic behind the G/A mode.
Never flew a Boeing but I am sure its G/A logic its also preatty clever.Thing is, with a little bit of basic system knowledge you can also make a go-around without getting everyone airsick if youre flying the Airbus.
;):ok:

[underfire]

This is a go around...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150113735642761

[nitpicker330]

Great idea unless you do that on an A320 and don't realize it never went into TOGA and all you are doing is racing faster to the runway with your Gear now retracting!!
Yes Jetstar A320 attempted Go Around YMML RWY 27 a few years ago in Fog. Very close to touching the ground!!:eek:

How Jetstar came close to disaster in 2007 | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2010/03/05/how-jetstar-came-close-to-disaster-in-2007/)

[acroguy]

At JFK, the miss will usually include a clearance limit of 2000' or maybe 3000'. You routinely hear Airbus aircraft busting the clearance limit. Draw your own conclusions.

[Silvio Pettirossi]

Well, nr 5 of the Airbus operational golden rules says: Know your FMA at all times.
This crew wasnt paying attention to their FMA or they would have realised the plane wasnt in G/A mode.
And how did they retracting the gear without positive climb indication?
This is all lack of preatty basic airmanship, no matter what plane youre in.

[Check Airman]

Well, nr 5 of the Airbus operational golden rules says: Know your FMA at all times.

I'd like to try an Airbus one day, but never having flown one, your post inspired me to look up the Airbus golden rules. Eight in all.:eek:

My instructor taught me, and I taught my students - aviate, navigate, communicate. If you know what you're doing, the rest takes care of itself. Leave it to Airbus to complicate something simple.

[Oceanic815Pilot]

I've never flown the Boeing so I can't comment on its design technique. On the other hand I've never had a problem doing a go around followed by the, "enter downwind at 1500agl, you're cleared to land again", clearance on the Airbus either. I believe both can probably be professionally or unprofessionally handled depending on the crew and circumstances.

[747dieseldude]

I think I would like the option of getting only the guidance systems in the G/A mode without having to actually make the airplane so something automatic like opening max power, even if it's momentary.
On the other hand, stringing back the previous approach at the end of the MAP on the active plan is pretty clever. Must have designed that before lunch and wine break.

[Bus Driver Man]

At JFK, the miss will usually include a clearance limit of 2000' or maybe 3000'. You routinely hear Airbus aircraft busting the clearance limit. Draw your own conclusions.
That's not the Airbus' fault, but the pilot's fault.


And cosmo kramer, just like Silvio Pettirossi said, you can go to TOGA to activate the GA mode and then just go to CLB thrust for a more pax and pilot friendly go-around.
Some of the A380s have a soft go-around mode installed, which will give you a 2000fpm climb if you put the thrust levers to FLEX/MCT after having selected TOGA first.
I'm sure that the A350 will have it as well. And it would be nice if Airbus can provide this feature in new A320s and A330s.

[DirectCF]

bonjour people

[Winnerhofer]

Airbus go around:
Don’t confuse between A/THR and T/L.
During approach, h A/THR being supposed ON, Thrust Levers ( T/L) are in the « FLX « detent.
FMA ( Flight mode annunciator ) is showing on the left ( thrust mode ) SPEED
In case of go-around and considering Thrust:
Just need to push forward the thrust levers in the TOGA detent, passing through the MCT detent.
Then observe FMA :
The thrust mode annunciator is showing MAN TOGA, then and only at that point autopilot and or FD ( flight director) are permitting the aircraft to be in the SRS mode and to maintain a speed as V2+10 or greater.
Don’t touch to the thrust levers before FMA is going in THRUST CLIMB flashing in white.
Only at that time retract the thrust levers in the FLX detent passing again trough de MCT detent.
That’s all
Without A/P in the mean time pull back the stick until the aircraft is reaching a pitch of 15°, and follow the FD bars.

[cosmo kramer]

... and after all that time of checking and button pushing: bust your missed approach altitude and overspeed your flaps. That's a standard Airbus missed approach, right?

[cosmo kramer]

Report: Air France A388 at New York on Oct 11th 2010, oversped flaps during go-around (http://avherald.com/h?article=4679f17a)

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Embraer beats the pair of them!

[Winnerhofer]

By T.S.
Not really sure why you'd ever be flying with the A/T not armed (this is different than A/T off).
The only real reason the A/T can be disarmed is in the event of a malfunctioning autothrottle, it's similar to the flight control computer disconnect.
If you do shut an A/T off then you'll get an EICAS message...the airplane isn't normally supposed to be flown that way.

[Natstrackalpha]

Surely you mean CLB everytime you say FLX . . ?


FLX also tallies with MCT just to back myself up.


Also, I`ll let you figure out why but to go from FLX to MCT, unless you go from flex to TOGA and then back to MCT, is absurd, and you would never be approaching in Flx, unless EO. Mainly due to the fact that Flx and MCT are the same place in space and time and indeed location.


(A minor error, I guess) (maybe its a language thing)

[minstermineman]

Whats the 'bar' like shadow immediately above and below the aircraft at various points in that Facebook clip ?

[Capn Bloggs]

Embraer beats the pair of them!
Same 717 (and I assume MD-11). One button press, then modulated G/A thrust for altitude left to go to the Missed Approach altitude and auto speed control so no overspeed of flaps.

I can't believe the maker of over 7000 jets could still be making something so complicated.

[Capn Bloggs]

Whats the 'bar' like shadow immediately above and below the aircraft at various points in that Facebook clip ?
A con, that's what it is. A very well done flight sim trip.