Stapleford PPL training

[londonguy]

Hello everyone


I have finally decided to pursue my life long dream of learning to fly.


As I am based in East London, I am considering to start training at Stapleford Commercial and Private Pilot Flight Training, Flying Lessons, Gift Experiences - Stapleford Flight Centre, London, UK (http://www.flysfc.com/)


It is only a 20m drive from home which makes it very convenient for an intensive training schedule. All the other schools are at least 60-90min away.


Has anyone on the forum had any positive/megative experience training with them? Any recommendations for instructors?


Thank you

[Steevo25]

I did my PPL at Stapleford just over a year ago (also did some cross conversions to other aircraft types). My own aircraft is now homed at Stapleford.

On the whole, the training was excellent but I suppose that depends on which instructor you get. I had a very dedicated instructor that was prepared to put himself out. Most of the instructors I have been taught by down there were all very good and really wanted to see you pass. Generally, I only had 1 instructor for the whole of my PPL and I would throughly recommend him.

On the downside, at the very start of my PPL I had problems with scheduling lessons. I paid an amount upfront (most people would advise not to do this but I considered Stapleford a good risk so took the chance to get the 10% discount). But I had great difficulty in getting lessons booked as they were very much over subscribed at that time. It was especially difficult when lessons were cancelled due to weather as there was then a huge backlog of people trying to book lessons and initially sometimes I had to wait 3 weeks to get a lesson even though I was prepared to be very flexible. This resulted in long pauses and different instructors at the very beginning.

Eventually, after a few words from me, I managed to get regular lessons on 2 days every week with just 2 instructors. Then my main instructor found an extra slot so I was then having 2 lessons a week with the same instructor who took me to the end.

I never had a lesson cancelled due to maintenance or aircraft availability and the only cancellations I ever had was if my instructor was sick (happened twice throughout all my training) or the weather which happened numerous times.

Both the training and facilities I found outstanding and almost everyone down there very friendly. They have a mixture of experienced and very new instructors down there. My instructor was a new instructor and I found him extremely good as he did everything by the book and didn't cut corners in anything.

If I was doing my PPL again, I would have no issues at all using Stapleford.

[YODI]

Where in E London are you ?

[londonguy]

Hi Yodi


I am based in Canary Wharf


Regards,

[londonguy]

Steevo25


Many thanks for the recommendation. I did my first hr of training today and it all went great.

[rossbaku]

Hello,

Has anyone stayed on site at Stapleford during their training? I'm based in Dubai so have elected to stay in the student accommodation there.

Starting my PPL on Feb 17th and on to bigger and better things from then on in!

RossBaku

[CX152]

I did my PPL at EGSG. Can't fault their instructors. All very professional.
Saturdays & Sundays are really busy though, getting booked in can be tricky.
You can go from zero hours to a full CPL IR Multi with them.
Plus the have a Firefly G-BYOB so you can have some fun doing aeros.

Only down side for me was the non flying staff & general company attitude. Despite spending thousands of £s with them over the years I never felt like a valued customer. Reception staff have always been (at least since I started flying in 2001) incredibly rude & offish.
I eventually had enough of their attitude & went elsewhere.

Have experienced flying schools/clubs at Andrewsfield & Southend and had a much more enjoyable experience.

[Spitfirewingdown]

Hi there, interesting comments re non-flying staff. I've witnessed the same issues over the last 6 years. For some bizarre reason several of the reception staff think they're doing you some kind of favour by dragging their sorry ass to work, and don't seem to understand that students and members are in fact paying customers! I've seen the way some of them talk inappropriately to customers and other members of staff. It's embarrassing and extremely unprofessional...I've often asked myself, "Did she really say that? Did that really happen?". It's Probably deep rooted through the organisation unfortunately which is almost impossible to address unless it is sold at some point to an outfit with business acumen. In my experience the instructors are good, and my theory is that's the only reason why the flight centre has kept it's head above the water. The question to ask yourself is whether you mind forking out tens of thousands of pounds worth of training and handing that cash over to a rude and obnoxious member of staff after each flight. Certainly takes the edge off what is meant to be a pleasant experience...

[Ph1l]

I was very happy with Stapleford for my PPL, but that was really down to the instructor that I had and he isn't there anymore. I did fly with a few other instructors though and they were all very good. The senior guys there are very good too and approachable, but i do agree with the comments on the non flying staff being up their own ass.

Another place I would recommend is Earls Colne, but again that is down to a very good instructor Nigel Wilson, who I did my taildragger and complex with and have since done my renewals with.

Every instructor can teach you something, go along do a flight or 2 and see how you get on, it really is a personal preference.

[A and C]

SFC is a good place to train, the fact that the office staff have an attitude problem will not effect the quality of the flight training is what you have to focus on.

The aircraft are very well worn and I would not want to fly something that looked quite that rough but and this is a BIG BUT, the engineering standards of the bits of the aircraft that are critical to flight safety are all up to standard and airworthy, they just look appalling !

[Adam amriche]

Hi there I take lessons there once every two weeks but they are all trial I want to start my PPL but don't know how to apply
Should I do my medical before or after I start and when we drive in what do I say to the receptionist because in my opinion going up to the receptionist and saying "I would like to start my PPL" seems exotic:) so to save me from embarrassment I would like some advice on starting
I already now my instructor because she was my instructor for my 5 total lessons at EGSG so once again I would welcome any advice
Many thanks
Kind regards Adam.

[Raab]

Adam,

Just talk to your instructor about starting your PPL rather than continuing trial lessons! Everyone had to do it at some point so don't be worried. Then he/she will book you in some lessons at reception and then off you go from there! Easy!

And in regards to the medical, you won't need that till about 15 hours of training with your PPL and when you have completed your law exam. Though no harm in getting it before then as it will last you a while.

Raab

[cavortingcheetah]

Disregard the receptionists because that is all that they are. The attitude described is not unique to SFC. It's pretty common in flight schools generally. When people are investigating learning to fly everything is rather new and daunting for them. Strong men become diffident in demeanor and shuffle their feet in embarrassment as they ask questions about something that to them resembles the dark arts.
There's a certain type of woman who takes advantage of this lack of security in others; they're really bullies masquerading as secretaries. Pay them no mind, be scrupulously polite to them, repaying their acrid insolence with nothing but charm and composure. That in itself will be sufficient recompense for your wounded feelings for women, or should one say people in order to generalize and be politically correct on a broader spectrum, of this sort become truly shriveled inside when nice young men refuse to become perturbed and treat them with a dignity which they do not deserve.
So then, walk through the door, make a small show of checking the weather briefing sheets at the beginning of the passageway on the right. Then proceed to the front desk when there is a suitable lull and simply announce that you've booked yourself a medical and so now you'd like to put together a flight training schedule and could you please speak to the head of PPL training in order to sort this out. A PPL is an expensive exercise and you are the customer. You're absolutely entitled to be treated with respect and toleration and you should not accept impertinence or offhanded treatment from those whose salaries you are paying.
You should do your medical first of all, before you start training. There's no sense whatsoever in putting off a perfectly straightforward examination. Any possibly problems would be as well to be discovered at the beginning of your training.
It was my experience that the standards of ground and air training at Stapleford were excellent. Aircraft maintenance was also good. The aircraft I flew were old and tatty but they didn't smell as some old interiors do and they flew nicely once trimmed out, so no structural distortions. I'd certainly use them again.
It's very useful having a decent clubhouse too and the one at Stapleford is particularly good, serving decent cheap food in congenial surroundings. The old buzzard you might see in there from time to time is in his nineties and has trained more people than you or I will ever have hours.

[proudprivate]

Disregard the receptionists because that is all that they are. The attitude described is not unique to SFC. It's pretty common in flight schools generally.

I'm sorry but I disagree. I went straight to Southend after just one SFC reception experience and I didn't need a lesson in female behavioural psychology or an acting class to make that decision. Never regretted it.

Just now, I spent a week at a flying school in the US, where male and female receptionists alike treated me as a valued customer, pointed out discount opportunities, and were diligent with appointments and schedules.

By contrast, old (but usually well maintained) aircraft ARE pretty common in flight schools generally. It is not a bad idea to go over the logs with your instructor at a relatively early stage and make notes in your POH external preflight checklist about everything you suspect is an anomaly (and ask questions about everything you don't understand). That way you are sure to fly an airworthy airplane. Also, it gives you a grasp on how quickly the maintenance shop reacts to items you flag to them.

[cavortingcheetah]

All right then and better and even better, although perhaps not, we shall see. I'll completely accept that the attitude we were talking about is nowadays not the common one in flight schools. My experience has been drawn upon rather older flying establishments. That leads me to the conclusion that certain flight schools today still have the sort of receptionists that old schools had where the customer was a species of vermin and the flight instructors were not much more than rat poison.

[Adam amriche]

Many many thanks for the advice
I don't mind about the condition because I flew there at least 5 times and only once the door opend mid flight but it was fun
For me I need trial lessons to get used to to the enviroment I am only 14 because I don't want to just jump into the PPL just like that I thought having some experience first would be beneficial
So in a nutshell I shoul do my medical approximately 15 hours into training and ask my instructor to get me some lessons... But in that case how would we pay and what paper work to fill out... My instructor said despite my young age I managed to fly the plane well but like I said I don't want to jump into it so quickly that's why I take trials and I don't know if you can have regular lessons which isn't PPL nor trial but within a few months I would like to start my PPL
Once again many thanks for the advice.

[cockney steve]

Adam, you are still growing!...your body is likely tochange appreciably in the next couple of years!- that includes your eyesight, The fact is, a medical before you are physically mature, will be worthless by the time you actually need it for administrative purposes. the only plus-side i see, is if you have a latent problem which the exam picks up.

IIRC, you cannot hold a UK PPL under the age of 16, but that does not stop you training!
I know a farmer's son, booked his Tractor-driving test for his 15 th birthday (youngest legal age)...With about 7 years experience of driving everything from an excavator to a land-Rover, he passed! ;)

I make the assumption that money is not a problem?...NEVER pay up front, any more than you can afford to lose!...even well-established flight-training organisations go bust with monotonous regularity.
I would suggest that, as you are unable to actually sit your PPL until you're 16 , you will have time to kill when you have completed your formal training ....to keep you up to speed, you could continue with "lessons"...that is to say, although flying solo (No pax allowed with an unqualified pilot not accompanied by an instructor) You would be under the instructor's control and also paying the higher "instructional" rate of hire.

Buy the textbooks, read them , learn!....some stuff, like the physics of flight, weather, navigation, will tie-in with schoolwork.

Get a logbook! (or make one!) All your "trial lessons" provided they are properly entered and signed-off, can count towards the hours required to qualify to sit the General Skills test. (the "practical" )

Now, consider learning on a 3-axis microlight...often a modern one is a slightly lower-powered, larger-winged version of a "proper" aeroplane.

much lower costs and some hours will count towards converting to a "proper" PPL....you have a lot to learn, but a lot of time to learn it in.....lucky person to have the opportunity!.

[Adam amriche]

Thanks steve

I will keep your advice in mind I already have a logbook and I log all my flights and will do so in upcoming flight ( next one in 3 weeks can't wait :) )
But the instructor said that its unusual to log flights in the logbook when doing trials because apperantly I will have to go through the excersize again when I start my PPL and in Victoria there is a pilot shop which sells books and so on I usually book my trials in with the same instructor and she always ask me what we did in the previous lesson for instance she said next time we will take a look at the refuelling and and steep turns like you said it will tie in with school work your right! I chose triple science as a gcse and my physics has Been improving. I will continue flying because I really enjoy it the fact is after my PPL which I would like to get before 17 I would then go on to do a atpl because being an airline pilot is my dream job. Also I would like to get as much experience as possible before I go to oaa so that life will be easier because I know oxford is hard. Even on my first ever flight flying a real piper pa-28-161 (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YVKhbJvq4FY) my instructor said that I flew the plane well but don't rush your medical or PPL so just like what you said .

I can go on for hours so thanks Steve and thanks everyone else who gave me advice I will be taking this further so many thanks.

[cavortingcheetah]

Surely you can simply log the 'trial' lessons in a newly purchased logbook as dual instruction Sequences 1-13? You might not be getting the sequential lesson patter from the pilot/instructor but you are flying dual with a person qualified to teach you how to fly yourself. Make the man work for a living and get him to patter you properly, treating each flight as a lesson. There's only one reason why the instructor should take a casual attitude and treat the flight as 'just' a trial and that's a bad one.

[cockney steve]

Make the man work for a living and get him to patter you properly,

PAY ATTENTION ,AT THE BACK!
"He" is a SHE....this lad really does seem to be Commercial Pilot material :p:}

[Adam amriche]

No at that time, the first time I flew it was a male at EGLM but its different now at stapleford sorry for the confusion it was my fault. I don't mind going through it again because I like flying anyhow, but I hope your right that I won't have to repeat what we done in the ppl
Kind regards Adam.

[cavortingcheetah]

Does that explain a great deal?

[Scoobster]

Adam,

I have just finished my PPL out of Stapleford and can give you an insight into the School and some of the advice that was given to me by my Instructor. SFC was the second training provider and I had transferred to after doing the first 6 hours out of The Pilot Centre in Denham - who by the way are nothing short of Excellent. But that doesn't help you!

I live in East London and therefore the closest, most established school around is SFC. They have lots of Cessna's dotting around and plenty of Warrior's also. The aircraft themselves did have me a little worried at times but nothing major and from a "maintenance" perspective all of the features critical to flight safety are maintained. In my time, I experienced a door popping open during the "take off roll" but we continued the climb out because it was safe to do so and simply closed the door!

Once into the circuit during "Touch & Go's".. I experienced a Flap Retraction Failure - 30 degrees and noticed it before my Instructor who promptly took control.

You will quickly find your favourite aircraft and one which doesn't have a loose door hinge, or a crappy radio.. but the main thing is the aircraft are well maintained but look like they have been made from scrap metal!

I chose to "Pay as I fly" and paid by Credit Card to give me extra protection and so to speak until "I trusted the School"... Remember YOU are the Customer! I don't expect the School to go bust suddenly but you can never be too careful!

My Instructor was the one of the Most Senior Instructor's employed by SFC and also teaches CPL therefore you can "back seat". As a PPL you have nothing to measure your performance against... so sitting in the backseat of a CPL and seeing them mess up a Rate 1 turn or identify the town of Tunbridge Wells as Ashford did wonders for my confidence!

In other words it will help to build up your awareness and confidence and also make friends with the CPL students.

STICK TO ONE INSTRUCTOR ONLY OR AT A PUSH 2 INSTRUCTORS.

Around 35 hours in my Instructor started getting busy with CPL students so I shifted to another Instructor to "finish me off" so to speak.. Happy in the comfort and knowing that the second instructor was also trained by my Instructor as an FI.
§
SFC Instructor's will always give priority to CPL students so you will find your slot gets bumped or cancelled and most things are done by text. For example, you are booked in for a 12pm Slot and you receive a text in the morning asking you to come in at 10am or 1pm.

Dr Peter Orton is onsite on Sunday at SFC .. the office next to Gerran Aviation Supplies...so pop in and see him and say hello. He is an excellent AME and has helped me with a couple of challenges I faced with the CAA.

The clubhouse is nice and can be used to sit around and get friendly with your Instructor... Buy them a Coffee and have a chat on a bad weather day to answer any questions!

DO THE PRE-WORK AT HOME. MENTALLY FLY THE EXERCISE.

Also be prepared to get Bollocked. This may come as your instructor "Nagging" at you but the good instructors are the one's you will say "I am only nagging because I want you to do well"..

Happy to answer any other specific questions.

Scoobster

[Adam amriche]

Thank you very much
I just booked a 30 minute flight for the 28th of October and we got into a conversation where she said that because I am still too young i don't need a medical until I am 16 but I can still start my ppl I currently fly G-BFFW and because half term is coming:cool: I decided to fly during the week but yeah I will see Dr orton but I won't need to be tested until 16 I am going to stick to one instructor because she in my opinion is a good instructor who also went to EGSG and studied there so she will probably know stapleford well and she said she will be happy to teach the ppl. For me the very first time the door opend G-BTGW it gave me goosebumps but in the cockpit there is not enough space to wave your arms and get scared so I told my instructor to take over control until I closed door I do have a few questions because for my 15th birthday I would really like to start my ppl so I would like to be up to date with everything i need.

1. How often would you recommend I should fly (obviously I can only fly at the weekends because I am still at school but I would like to fly as much as possible)

2.is there any uniform because I don't mind wearing uniforms like I see people with a stapleford jacket that I would like to get my hands on, so far I made a shirt with the stapleford logo and I fly in that but as the cold weather is upon us I need to know what I should wear.

3.what I need to take on board the plane such as maps, kneeboards etc

4.am I aloud to make a video on a camera to keep for memory

And if there is anything else you feel you need to tell me I would welcome that very much

Once again many thanks for the advice and congrats on you ppl :ok:

Also my favourite aircraft is g-BFFW like you said it does not have any weird radio sounds nor does it have the door opening every minute I flew the c152 a total 4 times now and the warrior once.:cool:
At first flying the cessna was real hard as the control surfaces were quite hard to move with the yoke at 2,000 feet but on the second time I flew the c152 I started getting used to it:)

[Scoobster]

Yes G-BFFW is probably one of the better ones and I think (from memory) G-BTGX, G-BHCT and G-OPAM..

I did my trial flight in a PA-28.. but finished the PPL on a C-152. Most cost effective!

I am also near to Leyton.. So give me a shout if you have any other questions..

Scoobster

[Adam amriche]

Because I flew with the same instructor more than once and she always flies g-BFFW I did fly BTGW but like I said not a good experience
So far I only have those questions but I might have more later on so thank you very much when I booked my flight for the 28th the receptionist Said there was another person at my age who started training and now is a commercial airline pilot. So I have high hopes.
Ps. I went to another flight school for one flight in west london but from leyton lea bridge road it take almost 2 hours to get there so did some researching and found that sfc was only 15 minutes away.

[Scoobster]

1. How often would you recommend I should fly (obviously I can only fly at the weekends because I am still at school but I would like to fly as much as possible)

I personally flew 3 times per week and sometimes 4.. Tuesday, Wed, Thurs and a Saturday - The circuit is really busy on the Weekends and we have helicopter traffic. Unfortunately at this time of the year you will lose a lot of days due to Bad Weather and 25 knot Winds - but you wont need to worry about that until you are on Navigation.

What people generally do is they book in 2 slots on the same day.. For example, 10am and 2pm.. if this is an option, check with your instructor.. So you could do this on Saturday and Sunday.

Take it slow and build up depending on how you feel. My instructor said to me that the first 25 hours are the hardest and once you have mastered the basic controls the next challenge will be navigation!

2.is there any uniform because I don't mind wearing uniforms like I see people with a stapleford jacket that I would like to get my hands on, so far I made a shirt with the stapleford logo and I fly in that but as the cold weather is upon us I need to know what I should wear.

The CPL Students are normally expected to be in Uniform. I would NOT worry about a "Uniform" for PPL and would always prioritise comfort and warmth as your first priority.. I used to rock up in Jogging Bottoms, Long Sleeve T-Shirt, Jeans, Jumper etc - COMFORT should be your priority with no restrictions to flying the airplane.

Some of the heaters in the Plane are a bit hit and miss so I wouldn't want you to freeze when there is a 35 knot wind and Gusty conditions!

3.what I need to take on board the plane such as maps, kneeboards etc

Don't worry about buying any equipment until your Instructor tells you that you are ready for Navigation. You will need the following:

1. Latest Edition Map - They update every 6 months.
2. Flight/Knee Board - (I use the A4 Pooleys FB-7)
3. Set of Permanent Marker Pens - Red, Blue, Black, Green
4. Ruler, Protractor, Diversion Ruler
5. CRP-1 or CRP-5 (Ebay)
4. Own Headset (If you don't already have one)
5. Flight Bag (or any suitable bag, if you don't already have one)
6. VFR Flight Pad (The photocopied VFR sheets given by SFC are crap!)

7. Pooleys VFR Flight Guide
(Strictly speaking not necessary until you have your PPL, as your instructor will give you a photocopy for your landaway at Lydd, Earls Cone etc that has the aerodrome approach plates)

Easiest thing to do is walk into Gerry's.. and ask for everything for Navigation. Pricey.. but convenient... You may be able to save some money if you source Pens from Staples/Asda, headset from Ebay, have a look on UKGA.COM.

4.am I aloud to make a video on a camera to keep for memory

Check with your Instructor. A video camera is probably the least of your priorities right now... but yes it would be nice from a learning perspective also I suppose..

Scoobster

[Adam amriche]

Thank you
I didn't know you can book more than one flight on the same day that's great because I was wondering the same thing few days ago. Only in a few weeks during half term I am able to fly during the week but I generally fly on Sundays but if insist in flying on Saturday than I can probably try I remember one Sunday morning when I was flying at 9:30 there was a great deal of traffic so your right. Since the stapleford jackets are for staff I am probably going to get a nato cotton jumper I bought my logbook from gerry's I saw they have a lot of good things and also there is a pilot shop in victoria.

Also which headset would you reccomend.

Kind regards Adam

[Scoobster]

The Pilot Shop in Victoria might be a bit out of the way, its a bit of a walk from the Station... What might be an idea is if you order online?

There are plenty of Pilot Supplies.. Pooleys Flying and Navigational Products and Accessories (http://www.pooleys.com), afeonline.com (http://www.afeonline.com) and Sporty's Pilot Shop.

For the purposes of PPL.. I just bought a beginner Pooleys Headset from Ebay for about £50.. You could spend £250 on a David Clark H10 13.4 but if I were you I would much rather spend the difference of £200 on some more flying time!

Save the expensive headsets for later!

Gerry is an old timer.. so generally very friendly.. If you can get to Elstree with family or on your own there (by Car) there is a Pilot Shop on Elstree Aerodrome - a Pooleys Shop.

Scoobster

[Adam amriche]

Yea I know gerry's in fact were going there in a few days to buy some supplies and we might also checkout elstree

P.s this might be silly question but those teddy bears at reception that's on display can you buy them or win them because it would be a good souvenir and do stapleford have any merchandise at Gerry's or something?

Kind regards
Adam

[Buttino]

Also try Pilot Shop & Pilot Supplies from The Pilot Shop | Aviation Supplies, GPS, Charts and more! (http://www.thepilotshop.co.uk)

[Scoobster]

teddy bears at reception that's on display can you buy them or win them because it would be a good souvenir and do stapleford have any merchandise at Gerry's or something

Ask the question to receiption or Gerry's.

A quick google search reveals:

Charter flights, Learn to fly, flying lessons, flying experience - SFC Be flown to or fly to, Passenger or pilot, it's your choice (http://www.flyingpresents.co.uk/catalogue-details.php?DepartmentID=20)

The teddy is £8.74.

Scoobster

[Adam amriche]

Thanks
I just went down there to get myself a jumper.
As a student pilot are you aloud to where bars on your epaulette and if so hiw many and what colour because now my jumper looks a bit plain I might get a plain wing to go on it too.

[piperarcher]

As a student pilot are you aloud to where bars on your epaulette and if so hiw many and what colour because now my jumper looks a bit plain I might get a plain wing to go on it too.

I wasnt sure if this was a serious question.

No PPL should wear epaulattes, except in India or some other place where any kind of transit as a pilot will attract unwanted attention not dressed in the correct attire. The UK, France and Stapleford will happily let you take off and land anywhere without them. In all seriousness you would probably be laughed at unless you're looking like an instructor. It's best to imagine wearing epaulettes just in your head ;-) Wings / club logos etc, thats all fine, just not epaulettes.

[Adam amriche]

No it was a serious question because when I look at my jumper it's really plain well at least I won't be laughed at now
Thank you

Wait club logos ? What do you mean because that would be great too!

[Scoobster]

Adam,

I assure you YOU SHOULD NOT be wearing epaulette's on your jumper.. No matter how plain.

1) Keep warm
2) Fly the plane
3) Unless your a fashionista - I wouldn't worry how "plain" you are looking!

Focus on the PPL first and foremost.. Anything else is a Bonus.

All the best.
Scoobster

[cavortingcheetah]

I liked the winged dragon Smaug in The Hobbit. He's a thoroughly evil great worm whose lust for gold is possibly even greater than that of the trolls whose gold bars he would covet even before he'd gobbled them up.

[Scoobster]

More into "Airwolf" myself.. Logo is horrid though!

[Adam amriche]

Yea your right.
I was just checking the specs of the c152 and I was wondering if you are aloud to fly in light rain and what is the minimum of base cloud to be aloud to fly since today's weather wasn't very good and since my next lesson is two weeks into the future I don't think the weather will improve much:)

[Scoobster]

The official line from the Instructors at SFC is.. if you can see through the rain and see the horizon and the surface and it is in patches.. then you can fly through or route around the "light rain".

Minimum Cloud base - there isn't one.. it is depending on what exercise you are doing.. so for general handling i would say 1800 feet - stalling 3000 feet etc.

Check with your FI.

Scoobs.

[Adam amriche]

Many thanks for you response
I was wondering especially after today and even now the rain is just pouring and when I went there earlier today there were no planes flying but I did see instructors and others walking around their plane as if they were doing their external checks but in clacton the weather was similar and I saw a few planes takeoff so I didn't know what was happening
So thanks for your response I appreciate your help

Kind regards Adam

[cavortingcheetah]

Perhaps, as in some schools, that's how they check for metal fatigue? They wander around the aircraft until they see water pouring through towards the ground from the underside of the wing which will in logical turn indicate to them where the holes are on the upper surface of the wing. In Africa we do this to check for the lethal Piperus Cesnexis, a really evil metal eating bug which is much favoured by the convicts in the chain gangs for it will easily chomp its merry way through the padlock system on ankle gyves.

[Adam amriche]

Now I understand what they did because it seemed they just wanted to get soaked for the fun of it.learn things everyday
Thank you for response
Adam

[piperarcher]

Light rain is always a tricky one. I have an IMC Rating or IR(R) as it is called now, and light rain is fine if as described earlier. If you can see through it, or you can go around it, then you have options. What I would personally consider is the weather around me and associated with it.

For example does the forecast show light rain and low visibility, or does it have a PROB TSRA and or CB's somewhere in the area. Does one of the nice websites / apps show lightning strikes or other serious activity.

The other thing is that landing in rain is harder as you have no windscreen wipers, and only a quick flick of the throttle might clear the water off your screen. It might require you look more out of the side of the window to judge your height to flare as the rain could distort the vision. And of course no one really wants to get soaked doing pre-checks or tying the plane down. So, you can fly in rain, but there are some additional things to think about.

[hegemon88]

Minimum Cloud base - there isn't one.. it is depending on what exercise you are doing.. so for general handling i would say 1800 feet - stalling 3000 feet etc.

Ah, have we trained at Stapleford and never read the Flying Order Book? What do you mean by there isn't one? :=



/h88

[Adam amriche]

Thanks, your advice has been helpful but hopefully I won't be in a situation where I will have to fly in rain and my instructor is very experienced. However one of you said that there are no wipers, and the windscreen would be blocked from the precipitation what would happen of you tried coming in a cross wind formation and maybe one side would slightly clear but if the rain was severe how would you find yourself to the runway since cessna's are not equipped with the capability of using a glide slope or localizer.

Adam

[cavortingcheetah]

If you were in a Cessna 150/152 Aerobat you'd fly the approach inverted. That's the same as being upside down. You'd then execute a snap roll at fifty foot above the ground flicking any residual rain drops from the windscreen and land. This is a little advanced technique and would usually only be demonstrated by the instructor just before you went solo for the first time, in case you got caught out by a squall line while doing your first flight on your own.

[Jetblu]

:eek:

Fifty feet is far too low to be performing snap rolls on final approach to disperse the residual rain drops.

May I suggest a quick loop before turning base. Much safer at 1000ft. :)

..........and DO NOT even attempt this manoeuvre unless you have purchased a
pair of 4 gold epaulette's. The aircraft will first need to detect that you are a true sky god.

[Scoobster]

Ah, have we trained at Stapleford and never read the Flying Order Book? What do you mean by there isn't one?

Guilty to a degree!

I was given friendly advice to sign it and told to read it after.. In my defence I read the important parts of it..

Officially as per the "Book"... I believe it is

1200' - Circuits.
3000+ - Stalls etc
2000+ - Navigation

So I shall rephrase...

"The minimum height/altitude may be dependent upon the exercise being flown as long as it meets the Rules of the Air..

If it is General Handling [which I suspect the OP is on around Hanningfield] then I would suspect it will be above 1800 feet + for his purposes... or as the Instructor feels appropriate!

Correct me if I am wrong?

Still only a humble new PPL and learning! :E

Scoobster

[Adam amriche]

Yea 80% of the flight in and out of EGSG is flown at 1800ft however very rarely we fly at around 2500ft and when we enter the circuit it is 1200ft but how do you know if you are in the circuit do you follow the ground such as roads, landmarks etc

Kind regards
Adam

[Piper.Classique]

Jetblu? I would appreciate your advice on this one, too. I have bought my épaulettes but only three bars for the moment. Will the cub understand, do you think?

[cockney steve]

Adam, I know this is all very exciting, you feel both proud and important, but do not get carried away with it and try "dressing up".
The most important thing to consider(and you should already know, if you have studied the forums enough-use the search function for newbie advice- DO NOT WEAR MAN-MADE TEXTILES.
Even a Poly-Cotton shirt can melt and stick to your skin.....read about high-vis jackets and you'll know that not only will they melt onto you, but they are a static-generator....AFAIK. there has never been a refuelling fire caused by one, but the possibility is there....that's why the aircraft is bonded to ground for refuelling....the fuel flowing and splashing can cause static.....no, I've never seen any grounding in petrol-stations, either, but I know road-vehicle tyres are conductive!:8

Pure cotton and real wool will both smoulder...they both absorb and dissipate sweat better than synthetics.
Jeans (Cotton) are fine but get stiff and heavy in a drizzly walk-out / round...cotton trousers are better.
NO! don't even consider a flying-suit! do not try to "look the part" you will just look a total pratt.
I think it was on this forum, Genghis the Engineer, or another respected Member, advised new students to buy an ordinary clipboard from a supermarket, the same with set-square, ruler,pens etc. you can get perfectly adequate gear at a massive saving to the stuff sold "specially for Pilots"...don't get suckered and conned. there are lots who consider flying is for the rich and spendthrift types, so they do their best to grab as muchof that cash as they are able.

You should be able to fly evenings when the days lengthen again, School finishes ~3.30? 15 minutes to Airfield(you said) book for 4.30!
it should be doable!.

[cavortingcheetah]

Flying as the preserve of the rich and the spendthrifts?
Not since the days of BOAC and Hamble!

[Jetblu]

@Piper Classique My advice would be is to go and ask your AME for a more
detailed response.

BTW well done on the 3 bar progression. :ok:

[Piper.Classique]

Ah, thank you Jetblu. Yes, I probably should do that. I do wonder why I bang my head on the strut so often. I suspect it is only when I am asked for the toll at the stone bridge that it gets serious.
The cub does not approve of the three bars. The radio was hissing and sputtering all the time I was flying. Would it be okay to turn it off, do you think? It would be a pity, now that we have finished painting the corner markers for the circuit. Now we can call at each letter, A to D, instead of those silly downwind and final calls.

[Adam amriche]

I really wish I could do that but unfortunately when I finish at 3.05 it takes me 15 minutes to get home and then if I left at that time, well I would be stuck in traffic for a very long time:)

That's why I usually fly in the mornings when sfc opens at 9.00, no traffic and also it's much nicer to fly in the morning especially for me because I wake up every week day at 7.00 am:ugh: so I am used to waking up early especially when I am going to fly. Also it's nice to see the sun rising and less turbulence so it's more easier to fly but I like it when there is turbulence just makes the flight mkre fun;)

Kind regards
Adam

[hegemon88]

Yea 80% of the flight in and out of EGSG is flown at 1800ft however very rarely we fly at around 2500ft and when we enter the circuit it is 1200ft

Well, 80% of some flights... I normally go direct Billericay and climb 3300 as soon as I get there, even if going to south coast.


but how do you know if you are in the circuit do you follow the ground such as roads, landmarks etc

On a weekend at Stapleford you may tell you're in the circuit by not being told off on the radio.

More seriously, yes, there are landmarks; your instructor will point them out for you. On 22 you climb tracking the runway, then at 300ft you track 200°, then at 800ft you turn towards the white water tower at Havering. When you have a patch of trees at your 9 o'clock, you turn downwind (and call downwind). You overfly the woods, M25 and the pylons. On your left you see the A113 road. When abeam a funny house half-black and half-white, you turn base. Where to turn final should be relatively obvious.

On 04 your turning points are: 1000ft on climbout, then "somewhere near but this side of" the M25/M11 junction, then abeam a roundabout south of Abridge and again the final turn as and when. Just don't clip the London Ambulance Service mast.

All that goes out of the window on a sunny Sunday when there are 7 aircraft in the circuit and 3 descending on deadside and everybody extends downwind or makes S-turns on final.

Fly safe,



/h88

[cavortingcheetah]

That's why, even for a casual circuit, it's a very good idea to have a Z flight plan filed and duck into EGMC for a refreshing pot of crab salad.

[Scoobster]

Just don't clip the London Ambulance Service mast.

That mast on final for 04 is for the London Ambulance Service? Didn't know that.. "I still hear the words.. You need to be 700ft at the mast.. hollered by a number of instructors"..

Also I must be sleeping because I haven't seen the "White Water Tower at Havering" - Might google earth it..

Incidently, anyone know the name of the Mast in Kent, just past Brands Hatch...?? 1305 AMSL.

Scoobster

[hegemon88]

I'm sure you'll see the tower next time you take off from 22L, it's not massive but it's very white. Quite far ahead as well.

Not sure if the mast in Kent has a name. I don't normally register seeing it in flight (probably as I escape from under the 2500+ bit of LTMA to fly higher) but when driving on the M20 towards the Continent, the red light on top I see every time.

I wonder how steep the instrument approaches would have been if Stapleford had them - with the mast on one side and the pylons on the other.


/h88

[Jetblu]

The unpublished procedures work very well. I have used both when needed.

The white tower at Havering is a very useful landmark. Steer 330 from this landmark and Stapleford will be camouflaged on the nose. Alternatively, dial in 115.60 on Nav 1 ;)

[Buttino]

This mast? Wrotham transmitting station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrotham_transmitting_station)

[hegemon88]

Precisely.

[Scoobster]

This mast? Wrotham transmitting station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's the one! Spent a lot of time in Kent doing Navigation and pottered past that mast often!

Thanks.

Scoobs

[Adam amriche]

Question: since I am 14 and I am starting my ppl in a few months what would be the syllabus ie the order of things that I will be taught for example ground school, navigation etc

Many thanks
Adam

[Jetblu]

I hadn't realised that you were that young.

I see that your problem is going to be when you get to solo stage and still only being 15. Remember that your written exams also have a relatively short shelf life.

Generally, exams are taken through the syllabus when subjects become much clearer. Obviously, the first exam to concentrate on would be air law.

[cavortingcheetah]

What you should be doing now is chasing after girls. Leave the occupational therapy stuff until you're one hundred and eighty nine months old and then go like smoke.
Anything else is likely to involve some quite serious random wastage.
Schoolboy pilots helicopter solo - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6117216/Schoolboy-pilots-helicopter-solo.html)

[hegemon88]

He'll be much better off chasing after girls with a PPL in his pocket.


/h88

[cavortingcheetah]

All the world loves a poor pilot?

[Adam amriche]

Thanks for the reply's but what I was looking for was something like what oaa does where they tell you the order of things like ground school and they separate what you do by weeks I know you need 45 hours on flying but does that include ground school and the first things I would do when I first start keeping in mind that I already flew 6 times.

Kind regards
Adam

[Piper.Classique]

Adam, might I suggest you try reading the textbooks reccomended by your instructor. Try your public library first before you buy them.
What you are looking for is called a syllabus.

[Mach Jump]

Adam, I think it's great that any 14yo is interested in learning to fly, and I can say that it is easily the most engaging and fascinating thing I did with my life. (You can hear the 'but' comming, I'm sure.)

I'm a little dismayed that you have done six flying lessons and you don't already know these things. This is not your fault. You need to have a serious chat with your Instructor about what is involved in learning to fly, and what books you should be reading to go with it. There are several series of books associated with flight training, and Vol. 1 of any of these is the one you need right now. This contains the syllabus and all the flying exercises. I reccomend the AFE series.

As has already been mentioned, the most frustrating problem you will have, is that you will be ready to fly solo way before you are old enough. (You have to be 16 to fly solo, and 17 to apply for a Licence.) This will involve either an excrutiating delay in your training at the worst possible time, or it will be suggested that the order of the syllabus doesn't really matter, and that you can continue with the rest of the exercises, and do all the solo flights at the end instead. This disrupts the logic and flow of the process, and is very confusing.

I know that this isn't what you want to hear, but I would strongly reccomend that you postpone any formal training until you are 16.


MJ:ok:

[cockney steve]

What MJ says is very good advice, meanwhile, you have the internet at your disposal. Why not do a bit of research on Paragliding, Microlighting (both flexwing and 3-axis), Gliding.....
There are many ways of getting airborne...at your age, there was no way I could dream of anything more than a "trip round the bay" in an elderly 4-seat taildragger Auster.- But I was a keen aeromodeller and could read all the books and latest magazines for free at the Public Library (It was warmer than home, in the winter, as well!) I learned a lot about the theory and practice of flight from models.
You may well find that some disciplines have lower age-limits for gaining a licence. To follow this path will give you a much better understanding and make the PPL training far easier, far more enjoyable and make you a better, safer pilot.

(It would also look damned good on your C.V. to a prospective employer.)

[Adam amriche]

Thanks to all I will keep this in mind, so now I am on my way to the library to get a card I already have vol 1 from trevor thom but I don't know if it is still good today since it was published around 20 years ago.

The next time I am flying is this Tuesday 28 oct is there anything I need to tell my instructor

Many thanks
Adam

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Adam,

Forgive me if I am repeating something from earlier in this thread; I haven't been following this thread too closely so I may be repeating someone else's comment.

As a young person, have you considered joining the Air Training Corps? I believe there is quite a bit of free flying to be had with them in both powered aircraft and gliders; (gliding courses and 'flying scholarships').

You asked whether the 45 hour requirement includes ground school. No it does not. And the 45 hours is only a legal minimum training you must receive to reach the standard to pass the skill test and cross country. Most people take more like 70 hours of flying to reach PPL standard.

Also, why not start off on weight-shift and/or three axis microlights, which are much cheaper to hire and I believe the BMAA training requirements may be less demanding than the PPL; (I'm not speaking from personal knowledge on this: anybody here know about this?).

You could also join a civilian gliding club.

Good luck!

BP.

[Adam amriche]

Thanks for your reply
I would consider micro gliding but the thing is dont know any flight schools that do that within the area but definitely worth a research I always considerd joining the air training corps even the days before I joined stapleford but a friend of mine said that they hardly do any flying and you need to cut your hair very short so that sort of freaked me out but maybe he was talking about something else but I will look into what you said so thanks.

Kind regards
Adam

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Adam,

I've never heard of micro-gliding! Microlights are all powered aircraft.

Weight-shift microlighting is not done from ordinary flying clubs. There are separate clubs for that purpose generally operating from unlicensed fields and pasture; (although the microlighters do fly into aerodromes for a visit quite routinely).

Some flying clubs do have a certain amount of three axis micro-light flying, but mostly this too is done from the separate microlighting clubs.

You can find the whereabouts of all the micro clubs from the BMAA (British Microlight Aircraft Association). Look 'em up on the web.

If you want to have a look at a typical three axis microlight, take a look at the Ikarus or the Eurostar online. That will give you an idea of what sort of aircraft we are talking about.

You can find out about gliding clubs from the BGA (British Gliding Association).

Regards,

BP.

[Adam amriche]

Sorry that's what I meant when I wrote microgliding I just typed it in wrong
I researched some microlight flight schools but they are a bit far still EGSG is much closer. And also it's more easier to get there from my location but when I go this Tuesday I will ask wether they have any microlight aircraft for training

Kind regards
Adam

[Adam amriche]

Well I went there today and they don't have microlight aircraft only pa-28 and c152's is there anything else I should try doing?

Kind regards
Adam

[Meldrew]

Hi Adam, from your posts it would seem that the financial side of all this "experience flying" that you are doing is not a problem. If so, then that is an excellent situation to be in.
As others have suggested, if by now you have had about half a dozen flights, then your instructor should really be taking you further along the learning curve, especially as your ambition is a PPL and then on to a CPL. The problem remains that at your current age, you are not going to be able to take advantage of the skills that the syllabus will give you. By all means enjoy the fact that you are in the air, but for me, In your situation, I would wait a while longer, I am sure that SFC are not going to discourage you spending money with them, but from some of the questions that you have been asking on this forum, the knowlege that should be coming from your flights, is not being imparted to you.
Best wishes and good luck to you anyway.
Meldrew.

[Adam amriche]

Hi Meldrew
Well unfortunately financially we are not that stable to fly if we were I would fly every week ;) however I only fly twice a month because my dad is setting how much to pay for the flights so that we don't go bankrupt.
I am postponing my ppl until I am around 15 but for now like you said I just love flying so I just do these trials also in a way I still learn things like today when I flew we did a glide as if the engine was cut and what the ideal speed is for gliding the further distance but it isn't the ppl yet
Many thanks for your response
Kind regards
Adam

[smarthawke]

I heard that very, very soon there will be a very smart addition to the SFC fleet:

Tecnam P2008-JC (http://www.tecnamuk.com/index.php/8-aircraft/5-p2008-jc)

G-JSFC (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=JSFC)

[Piper.Classique]

Adam, why not learn to fly a glider first, you can start now and be a better pilot when you move to power. Take a look at the British Gliding Association to find a club, many of them have holiday courses.

[Prop swinger]

Probably because he lives in London & Stapleford is much, much closer & more accessible than the nearest gliding clubs.

[Adam amriche]

Hi
I did research some on glider flight school but prop swinger is right stapleford is really really close and also I am not really good with the joystick I prefer the yoke it will be a whole another thing to get used too however because its half term I have more time so I will do some more research on gliders.
Many thanks for your advice
Kind regards
Adam

[hegemon88]

I heard that very, very soon there will be a very smart addition to the SFC fleet:

Tecnam P2008-JC

G-JSFC

It's already there. The guys landed from Italy while I was at the airfield on Saturday. Very nice Garmin instrumentation, and a stick, Adam... They have options for 4 more and will now test this first one to decide.


/h88

[Adam amriche]

Well it does look very nice but it looks similar to the cessna's are they being replaced by these or is it just an addition I don't mind anyway at least it has a yoke:)

[hegemon88]

No, it has a stick. That's what I meant to say but had a brain fart, see above. Sorry!


/h88

[Adam amriche]

:ooh: I don't like it now, do you think it's going to replace the cessna 152 and 172
Many thanks
Adam

[hegemon88]

That's the plan I believe, i.e. to replace the 152s. -YX and -MH recently deregistered and -EC dumped on visitors parking without the engine since summer. It's called progress.


/h88

[9 lives]

Adam, the mark of a truly enthusiastic candidate pilot will be the obvious desire to try anything that flies. Yes, you may have to learn a new skill or technique, but that is the point!

Don't decline a type based upon your perception of how you fly it, some pretty sharp Engineers and Test Pilots already have that part worked out....

[Adam amriche]

I guess I can get used to the stick...

Or maybe by the time I get my license and leave that's when they bring it in;)
I have a question: yesterday I flew G-BNJC but when we were around 3,000ft when we had hands off the yoke me and my instructor realised what the plane started slowly banking to the right and then eventually increasing its rate of bank so I had to quickly turn the plane for wings level does anyone know why that was so so that next time i go I can say to my instructor why it did what it did so that I can seem smart;)... Just kidding but I really would like to know why
Many thanks
Adam

[cockney steve]

Well, I just wiped some of the dust off my Crystal Ball.....I see a pilot and co-pilot of different weights.....I see an old airframe, I see a difference in tension or rigging,between aileron actuating mechanisms, I see a slight assymetry between right and left (just a twisted wheel-spat, maybe? )

In short, there is no definitive answer to your question......Have you been paying attention at your Physics lessons?...Very early on, one is taught "for every action there is an............"
Now then,you have over 100 horsepower turning the propellor......what might that do to the prime-mover and it's mountings?

Even if you have not reached that stage yet, I assume you are still issued with text-books like I, and my children were? There's nothing stopping you reading it all. It's called initiative!
I admire your keen ness and enthusiasm, but don't get lazy, think things through and then research to prove or discard your conclusions.
This sort of self-discipline will make you a better,more educated person, a better pilot and a more successful person in your working life.

[9 lives]

I guess I can get used to the stick...

I did - high motivation. Decades ago, on a crisp winter day, a fellow said to me, the Cessna yoke tricycle pilot through and through, "the Cub was just running, so it's warm, if you want to take it for a spin, go ahead". So there's a J-3 Cub on skis sitting there, and a large frozen lake ahead of it.

That day, I learned how to hand prop ('cause it had no starter), I figured out how to fly with a stick, I figured out how to fly a taildragger on skis (I had only an hour of taildragger time), and most importantly, I learned that not all carburettors have accelerator pumps, so if you jam the throttle, it's going to quit, and you'll have to get out and hand prop it again. They were all laughing at me when I taxiied back to shore an hour later - but I learned a number of things, and got used to the stick.

Now I own a plane with each arrangement - One tricycle, yoke, fixed prop, fixed wheels, push type throttle on the panel. The other, taildragger, stick, CS prop, retractable, overhead throttle, and T tail. Oh, and it also floats.

Fly as many different planes as you can.....

[Piper.Classique]

Probably because he lives in London & Stapleford is much, much closer & more accessible than the nearest gliding clubs.

Sigh..
I did mention holiday course, did I not? He is fourteen years old. Instead of faffing around doing umpteen trial lessons and learning not much at fairly great expense, he could actually put the money his parents are providing to good use and fly solo much sooner, and gain good stick and rudder skills.
Just because Stapleford is close does not make it invariably the best option. Save up the cash, go for a week at a time, and a achieve a result. Then fly power when he is old enough to get a licence.

[Adam amriche]

Hi all.
Many thanks for the responses.
My instructor said that yesterday's event on G-BNJC was unusual it doesn't normally happen when we got out of the plane I noted that the rudder tab was shifted to the right only slightly and my instructor said she will speak to the engineers.
In the 6 total times I flew, I flew 5 c152's G-BFFW,G-BTGW and G-BNJC
and I flew the pa-28-161 once (G-CEGU)
I am still researching those holiday courses but still did not find anything
So in the meantime I will fly at EGSG because as many of you might agree flying is just so awesome and I wish I could do it every second.
I am willing to fly planes with a joystick but I am not a big fan of it :)
If there is any more advice I would appreciate it.
Many thanks
Adam

[Piper.Classique]

You aren't looking very hard then. Try typing

Gliding course

In Google.

How hard can that be?
Because yes, flying is awesome, but those of us who have to earn the money to pay for it have to get the best value for our money.

[Adam amriche]

Found one in Cotswold

[Piper.Classique]

More than that. Lasham is good, but there are several come up on the first page.

[9 lives]

Adam, your following Piper Classique's advice with great care and seriousness will reward you. You can't imagine how experienced and worthwhile that poster's advice is to you, and other new fliers. You are so luck that Piper Classique is taking the time to post to you....

Though you sound like you're being given a nice head start by your parent's contribution to your flying, ultimately, you have to make it on your own. Learning to greatly value and follow mentoring from posters like Piper Classique will serve you well.

Piper Classique is not offering you a menu from which to choose, but instead a crack in the door, with a bit of a view to what you're looking for - you have to force the door open, and move toward what you are being shown, or you will always be on the "didn't get through" side of that door. Learn to really struggle to gain the advancement you want. Your youth is the time to refine this valuable skill!

[Adam amriche]

Hello all
Lasham is a little too far but cotswold is pretty close so i will convince my parents too allow me to fly the glider however I recall having that conversation before and they said just keep flying powered aircraft but I will ask them again.:)
Many thanks
Adam

[Adam amriche]

I also have keen question
When at 3,000ft they release you do you have to stay close to the perimeter of the airport and do you have a certain gliding speed.
Kind regards
Adam

[Scoobster]

I heard that very, very soon there will be a very smart addition to the SFC fleet:

Tecnam P2008-JC

Saw the engineers being trained on the Technam on Tuesday. Looks smart indeed and INTACT. Probably wont stay like that for very long...

Scoobster

[Adam amriche]

Hi there
I am please to say that I just applied for a gliding cadet at bookers gliding club
So thanks
Kind regards
Adam

[Piper.Classique]

That's great Adam. I hope you get lots of flying and have a good time there.

[Superpilot]

Adam, I hope you have a super duper Flight Sim gig at home complete with yoke and throttle quadrant running on at least a dual SLI? Will save both you and your dad a fortune!

Flight Sims go a long way towards teaching one how all the various flight parameters are related (speed, pitch, VS, alt, temperature, pressure). There will be a selection on here who will cringe at what I'm telling you...by telling you Flight Sim teaches bad habits. Yes there are some undesired habits one may develop from over indulging in Flight Sim but nothing that can't be undone. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. Practise makes perfect and this is a vital tool, so invest by spending the cost of at least 2 lessons into suitable hardware, if you haven't already!

[Adam amriche]

Hi there
Thanks for your response
Yes I do have a flightsim and I am a bit embaraced to say this but my instructor did noticed I observe the instruments a bit too much during flight. Which came from a lot of flight simulator I have played. Well now unfortunately it's the time of exams and my flight simulator has been switched of for the past few weeks and I hope in that time I can get out of the habit on observing the instruments although I can't wait until the holidays when I can go back to flight sim but I will try not to observe the instruments so much this time.:) I already know how to do an ils landing aswell as visual landings but I think i will get suitable hardware.

Thanks piper classique I still did not get a response from them but I hope they will accept my application.

Kind regards

Adam