Autoland with better than Cat 1 weather

[kungfu panda]

I'm interested in knowing peoples view's on this subject. Some operators of 747's require an Autoland in the event of engine failure. Other's recommend Autolands when the visibility is below 3000m. Some pilots do Autolands at the end of long trips.

In most of the cases mentioned the ILS will not be protected. The question is; is it reasonable to make an Autoland in the above conditions knowing the signal is not protected?

[Lord Spandex Masher]

As long as you monitor properly and you're ready to take over (which you should be on any autoland) then there's no problem.

We do standard landings to upgrade to CAT III post maintenance with no ILS protection.

[737er]

Hand fly it baby. Keep your skills.

[kungfu panda]

737er- You are correct about maintaining flying skills, however, there are some approaches where the safest course of action could be considered to be an Autoland. It is my view that as professional Pilots we maintain our hand flying skills to the highest possible standard whilst making the best possible decisions with regard to how a landing will be made. Don't let your ego fly the plane.

[de facto]

We do standard landings to upgrade to CAT III post maintenance with no ILS protection.

Do you do this in lower vis such as 550 RVR also or does your airline require a certain visibility for such unprotected autoland?
A properly trained pilot could and should be able to take over an autoland deviation close to the ground but lets face it,those who do unprotected autoland for no well defined reasons may not be those of the required standard.

Chinese airlines tell their FO that if the captain is incapacitated he is to perform an autoland,(nevermind if ils is cat 1 only or not)and that was even before getting any sensible autoland training..that would make the dead wake up:E

[Lord Spandex Masher]

We require 5K vis and 500' ceiling.

[Denti]

We do allow CAT I+ autolands. It is required if crews are fatigued, however in that case i would always insist on protected areas and so do most other pilots which can require a PAN call to get them. CAT I+ autoland is the only way an FO can do an autoland in the real plane as low vis autolands have to be done by the CPT. Of course the usual caveat to be ready to take over at any time applies. One thing in the 737 is not really good though, auto-rollout can not be canceled by overpowering the rudder, if the same happens as to singapore in munich better be ready to press that autopilot disconnect button very very fast.

[kungfu panda]

Excellent, thanks guys, this is just the discussion I wanted. It does seem that different airlines and different nationalities have different ideas on this.

We all know that we have to be ready to take over but whether we should do it in the first place, for reasons of additional safety e.g. in the case of fatigue or engine failure or incapacitation, does seem to be debatable.

I believe Cathay Pacific encourage Autolands with the visibility below 3000m, maybe somebody could confirm this.

[de facto]

We require 5K vis and 500' ceiling.

Thanks,does your airline provide you with an explanation behind this weather restriction?

[ahramin]

What is CAT 1+?

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Thanks,does your airline provide you with an explanation behind this weather restriction?

Having said what I said I checked the updated Part A this evening at work and that restriction has disappeared. Looks like it's just better than CAT I weather now.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Having said what I said I checked the updated Part A this evening at work and that restriction has disappeared. Looks like it's just better than CAT I weather now.

Check your flying manual, I reckon you'll find the restriction detailed there in the Supplementary Procedures;);)

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Found it! I'd looked there too but obviously missed it. Cheers.