Fly-Ins - Low FLy-Bys/ Aerobatics

[Hairyplane]

Not wishing to be a party pooper, the 500ft rule prevails.

A fly-In is just that. Land, park up and share your Whizzer with others.

DO a low fly by, formation fly by etc. below 500ft and you could end up in some really smelly poo.

THe CAA attend a large number of these events in mufti.

Can you imagine their concern if someone blasts down the runway at 200ft in something big and heavy and pulls an aileron roll. It happened. Lots of low fly by's and steep pull ups by others.

THe public are there to be protected. A FLy-In is not an air display. If the organisers want to arrange an air display then that is their prerogative. THe CAA will help in any way they can.

My concern is that prosecutions will result from some of the flying we saw at the weekend. All very impressive, all highly illegal.

Blow the dust off your Air Law and have a read.

Keep it safe, keep it legal.

If you want to dispaly your aircraft, read CAP 403, get a Display Authorisation and do it right.

[poetpilot]

(caveat) not knowing the location or event........

...sometimes pilots will have a DA allowing them to do displays though.

Then its down to the event managers as to whether they've informed the CAA of what pilots & aircraft will be officially displaying, and whether the aforesaid managers have checked the pilots DAs beforehand.

...but I presume that this was not the case?

[Hairyplane]

Hi Poetpilot!

THe event was a Fly-In - not an air display.

The CAA were there - invariably keen aviators themselves now faced with some tough decisions as opposed to 'a nice day out on the firm'.

My money goes on prosecutions - some of the flying was just disgraceful.

One guy in a large machine with big round engine cranked the thing over to the right really low over the crowd (circuits were to the left) and climbed steeply away waggling his wings. It looked really slow to me....

THere were numerous impromptu displays including low-level aerobatics, formations and steep pull-ups/ wing-overs.

I am sure that the innocent Gen Pub was highly impressed at this added dimension at the weekend - expecting only to see arrivals, departures and a static park.

However, I don't think the CAA will be too impressed.

Watch this thread - I think some pilots will be getting phone calls this week.

Let me give you some idea what the Magistrates will say -

'Take out your wallet and repeat after me - 'help yourself'.

C'mon guys - do it safe, do it legal, do it right. If you want to display your aircraft - get a DA. Even then, you can only use your DA at a properly structured Air Display within the Regs.

[paulo]

Kemble?

If you do a search on aerobatics on the NTSB site, most accidents appear to be under the heading of 'Watch This!'. :(

[Zlin526]

My money's on Kemble too...

Having a CAA Display Authorisation does not entitle anybody to break the law! All it means is that the pilot has proved himself to be capable of performing a safe display sequence. He is still required to have an Article 70 Permission in force for any flying display open to the public, end of story....

Having witnessed some of these 'Ace of the Base' flypasts, all i can say is, that if an accident does occur, and your insurance underwriter finds out you were flying outside the law, then your shiny private fighter may not be covered by the insurance. As we all know, Insurance people are notorious for wriggling out of paying up.......

And incidents like these can only prick up the ears of the boys & girls from the Belgrano, who may well be looking a lot closer next time........

Lecture over. Sorry to be a party pooper but it will affect all pilots if it goes pear-shaped on the day!

[Negative 'G']

Oh come on live life a little, if we where all soooo perfect would'nt it be a boring world, the main attraction of flying at a small strip for me is to be away from the stick wielding,finger pointing jumped up hypocrits that seem to reside inside most clubhouses these days just waiting to pounce at the least little error !

Ok I agree that overflying the public is not really on, neither is forbidding somebody with xx'xxxhrs flying experience the chance to show their aircraft off whilst enjoying themselves at such an informal "Fly-in" type event just because they have'nt got a DA, I for one will not be aquiring such a license just to do the odd low pass or run & break, remember many of these pilots at weekend are ex-mil and will have reactions that only you could dream off...............and as for the aircraft involved, well I'll rest my case............... !

Before anybody points the finger at me (Which I'm sure will happen on here), remember one thing,the Radio transmitions never Lie !

"G-ABCD Turning Finals for Low Approach & Go Around"

And you know how slow these Vintage A/C climb !

Neg G

[Stampe]

Well our hirsute aviator makes a good point and I for one avoid carefully the temptation to carry out flybys etc.at events nowadays.We do live in humourless times but sadly previous tragic incidents have produced regulations designed to provide the public with as near to 100% safety as possible and that,s the way of the world and what the public and media demand nowadays.Best not tangle with the CAA,s ghastly and inept legal department especially on as clear cut and easily provable case as that discussed.Interestingly the ATIS on departure at Kemble was advising a mix of full Air traffic and information service which made the status of a lose formation takeoff legally difficult therefore best to let your buddy depart the grip of gravity before commencing your own take off roll!!.:cool:

[Chilli Monster]

Hopefully the Kemble staffs 'playing politics' on Saturday which got the ATC staff reduced from 2 to 1 is now going to well and truly bite them in the arse! ;)

I do hope there were no 'land afters' and multiple landing occupancies on the Sunday when it was an information service - that's an automatic breach of Rule 17. Nothing worse than a bunch of wannabees who think they know what they're doing!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Ah, Chilli! That explains why the RT on Sunday, when I flew in, was not up to last year's (Wroughton) standard. I missed your dulcet tones and professional standards. A rather stroppy Scottish guy was on who was just a PAIN!

And I saw a big round-engined beast do his low level aileron roll on arrival - and I held my breath. The manouver went OK, but as he finished it I turned to my mate, who was also a tad grey-looking (and an aeros pilot like me), and said "I didn't think he had the speed to do that". "Neither did I", he said. "I was expecting it to end in tears".

Maybe the guy is an ace, knows his machine's capabilities inside out, and was 100 percent safe. But it didn't look it.

SSD

[Stampe]

Still guys in spite of the gripes a great event and all those lovely aeroplanes and people, one of the best events I,ve attended for years.Especially lovely to see all those marvellous Miles aircraft, a marque thats finally getting the recognition its products deserve. In many ways far more advanced and desirable than most DH products.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Yes, a superb event and a tribute to the organisers. I wonder where they ordered their weather from (which was good last year, too).

As you say Stampe, lovely aeroplanes. I particularly coveted Roger Mills' Miles Hawk Speed Six - and the Spitfire! And you may even be right about DH aeroplanes- except for the Chippy, of course ;~))

SSD

[The Mad Russian]

Low level fly-bys, beat ups…. Call them what you will…. I guess most of us who fly high performance or otherwise interesting aircraft have been there at sometime or another!!

However times have changed… another serious accident at an ‘airshow’ or ‘fly-in’ this year (the press and the public would perceive them both as being the same thing, no doubt!) Will probably end or at the very least heavily restrict air displays in the UK for the foreseeable future! For those of us who love to see these aircraft displayed by properly authorised pilots with all the required safe guards taken… this would be a tragic result!

If you want to be involved in this type of flying then there is a system for individual pilots to be authorised for display flying. This authorisation will specify what you can do and your height limits i.e. fly-past, aerobatic (very few hold ‘unlimited’ level) formation etc. This DA has to be renewed by test annually. Even DA holders can not carry out impromptu displays, the relevant permissions or exemptions (Article 70, Rule 5, 17 etc) must have been granted for that venue…. Otherwise you are quite simply breaking the law and liable to prosecution!!

As far as ‘negative g’s comments go about ‘ex-military’ personnel…. I have personally sat next to many ‘ex-military’ pilots in my professional world and some are far from aces! Others are exceptional! There are good and bad from all backgrounds… this applies not only to flying commercial airliners but also to civilian display flying! If you think that being an ‘ex-military’ pilot with thousands of hours is going to save you whilst carrying out unpracticed- impromptu low level manoeuvers…. I’d would suggest your not going to last too much longer!!

Incidentally ‘most’ of the fatal accidents at airshows in the UK recently have involved ‘ex-military’ pilots! Most of the ‘unlimited’ aerobatic display pilots (some with many hundreds of public displays to their credit) currently flying in the UK are from a civilian background…. Food for thought?? There really is no place for bigoted attitudes when it comes to display flying!! As I say there are ‘good and bad’ from all backgrounds!

[Zlin526]

Well said that man, obviously not as mad as he says!

[LowNSlow]

It was sensible flying only on the Saturday. I did arrive lateish though and may have missed any exciting moments.

SSD, I thought yon Jockanese chap was doing a decent enough job. He even maintained his patience with the clots who were calling up saying rubbish like "I'm 100 miles away but can I come to your fly-in please, I've listened to the ATIS and everything". This despite ATIS telling them NOT to call until downwind or crosswind depending on arrival direction.