Radio failure

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

Hi guys.

Ok, so I've looked EVERYWHERE for a proper answer to this (including the official ANO stuff) and not found a clear, consistent answer.

What do I do when I have radio failure up here in Orkney? The nearest radar is in Shetland. Say I'm out on a local flight and I'm giving position reps to Kirkwall every 15 mins or so, and all of a sudden my radio goes dud? I can't enter back into Kirkwall ATZ without permission and how would I know where other commercial traffic is?

Squawk 7600 ident, and fly over Kirkwall at 2000ft look for light signals? What if there are none?

Hope this hasn't been posted before. I checked and couldn't see anything.

Cheers!

[Dave Wilson]

Off the top of my head I think it's squawk 7600 and flash your landing light at the tower. I had a complete electrical failure earlier on this year. My first thought was to squawk 7600...which being as it was a complete failure wouldn't have been much use...:). Some fiddling with the master switch got everything back on line although it's a bit of a surprise when you try and talk to your oppo in the other seat and the com doesn't work either. Shouting at each other was the solution.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Flying old aeroplanes with dodgy electrics out of a Big Airport, I always carried a portable transceiver (with headset adapter - old aeroplanes are noisy!).

[3 Point]

You say you have looked for a "proper" answer but the fact is that the rules don't cover every possible situation and you are expected to rely on airmanship and training.

Bottom line is that, as the aircraft commander, you take what steps you consider necessary to ensure the safety of your aircraft. I'd certainly say Squawk 7600 (or even 7700 if weather is bad and you feel you are in urgent need of help). Either will get their attention (if they see you) and then maintain VMC and fly either to the overhead or to the runway and land. Keep a good lookout and, if you see other traffic keep away. Can't think of much else.

I fly an old aeroplane with just one radio and I always carry a hand-held with a jump lead to plug my headset into that. Might be worth considering the same thing?!?

Happy Christmas!!

3 Point

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Cambridge publishes that it doesn't accept non-radio traffic. However there is a local rule (I'm told, but haven't seen written down anywhere) that a based aircraft returning from a local flight with a radio failure can just follow normal radio failure procedures, ie 7600 if possible, fly along runway at 600' waggling wings and looking at the tower for a light. (If I remember that correctly from decades ago.)

A controller once told me that he did actually know which cupboard to look in for the lights.

[Whopity]

I've looked EVERYWHERE for a proper answer to this (including the official ANO stuff Aeronautical information is contained in the UK AIP not the ANO. Try ENR 1.1 para 3.4 Radiotelephony, Radio Failure and Loss of Communication Procedures.

Then you could try CAP413 Chapter 2 Communication Failure
You should also be familiar with the Kirkwall data (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=85&Itemid=134.html) in the Aerodrome specific page of the AIP?

[piperboy84]

Dont know the rules either but here is what I would do:

Mobile. 118 118, "Kirkwall airport or tower please, aye and put me right thru at your robber rates thanks". "Hi Kirkwall Tower G-xxxx here with knackered radio 5 miles to the SW be with ya in 5 minutes"

Simples !

Edit: On the back side of my home made laminated checklist transposed from the POH that hangs on the yoke clamp I got all the Scottish frequencies along with the telephone ATIS, Met office weather number and tower telephone numbers for all the fields in the region I fly

[dublinpilot]

The official answer is in ENR 1.1 of the AIP.

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-AA14DDBC43AA2D3BE1E6AC019BB7B5BC/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/AIP/ENR/EG_ENR_1_1_en_2013-12-12.pdf

Not sure how long that link will work for.

The essence is:
A VFR flight experiencing communication failure shall:
When VMC can be maintained, the pilot should set transponder on Mode A, Code 7600 with Mode C and land at the nearest
suitable aerodrome. Pilots should take account of visual landing aids and keep watch for instructions as may be issued by visual
signals from the ground. The pilot should report arrival to the appropriate ATC unit as soon as possible. When VMC cannot be
maintained, the pilot should adopt the procedures for IMC detailed below.

That leaves a lot open to the pilot to decide. What is a suitable aerodrome? It will obviously change quite considerably depending on your aircraft, fuel level, weather, any other operational emergencies.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd suggest talk to Kirkwall tower before you next fly and just have the conversation - "just in case I ever have a radio failure out there, could we agree a procedure I can use to get back in?". Shouldn't be hard to agree something that makes everybody comfortable.

G

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

Good suggestions everyone. I think I will give the ATCO's a ring! And thanks for that quote dublinpilot, it's very vague stuff isn't it??

And piperboy, I wish it were that easy! haha why don't you just keep the numbers in your phone? I'd also think that talking to someone through your phone with all the noise would be near impossible! haha

(also those hand-held transceivers are like £300!!) hellish

[piperboy84]

And piperboy, I wish it were that easy! haha why don't you just keep the numbers in your phone? I'd also think that talking to someone through your phone with all the noise would be near impossible! haha

Noise, what noise? the Iphone 5 works very well thru my PS Engineering :audio select panels (http://www.ps-engineering.com/pma8000b.shtml) intercom, and if i did not have it connected slipping the phone between your lug and the headset works just fine !

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

(also those hand-held transceivers are like £300!!) hellish

Take a look at the 'handhelds' thread. Vertex Pilot 111 (an excellent unit I have myself) is under £200. You can also pick them up cheaply second hand on eBay.

[gasax]

I've had to use the mobile option a coupe of times - returning to strip which is inside Class D.

The mobile works pretty well, just have to reduce the power to the minimum to maintain height and you do not need a headset adaptor!

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

I guess it's all very well calling the tower, but like somebody said, not all ATC numbers are published and are you supposed to have every single ATC telephone number available for your route? Apparently, also, mobiles don't work so well when airborne?

[dont overfil]

not all ATC numbers are published
As Whopity points out they are all in the AIP.

If you can contact any ATC unit they will be happy to pass a message.

Ghengis's suggestion will put your mind at rest.

D.O.

[Maoraigh1]

I've used a cheap Nokia in flight - I couldn't hear unless I put it under my headset, but the guy phoning me heard what I said. With an earphone it would have worked O.K. I've all the likely Scottish Airfield numbers in my phones memory.
I carry a handheld and a headset adapter - I once had to use it without the headset adapter, and I had difficulty hearing, but was heard O.K. Noise was a problem even when throttled back. With the adapter it's as good as the fixed radio.
If you're not on radar, 7*00 would be pointless, but you probably are on several even at low level over Orkney.
The ultimate solution is to land at a strip, keeping a good look-out. L*******??

[Flyingmac]

Would you be flying a Tomahawk by any chance?

[TheFirstDohrnPilot]

Yeah, I am flyingmac! How'd you guess??

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Mobile. 118 118, "Kirkwall airport or tower please, aye and put me right thru at your robber rates thanks". "Hi Kirkwall Tower G-xxxx here with knackered radio 5 miles to the SW be with ya in 5 minutes">>

I'm just trying to imagine how, as an ATCO, I would respond. Probably put the phone down and say something like: "Some kind of fruit cake" to a colleague.

Best advice, already given, is to talk to ATC - on the ground!

[3 Point]

Additional thought on squawking. It doesn't matter if you are on radar or not, squawk anyway because you will then appear as a TCAS target on an airliner's display. A significant safety benefit when you are not on radar and nor talking to the controller because of the radio failure!

Squawk and make "blind" radio transmissions until you are on the ground and clear of the runway.

Happy Christmas

3 Point

[mad_jock]

Well personally I would just land at landholm and give the tower a ring on the phone then when they say right go for it fly through and land and go to the hanger.

Forget pissing about with transponders etc apart from keep your mode C turned on incase someone is coming in for a cheeky visual from the south. Fly to landholm at 700-850ft agl and you will be sorted.

And as everyone knows all position reports in Orkney must be done relative to twatt.

And HD getting a landing clearance by phone is not unheard of up north. "When you turn finals I will ring twice and thats your landing clearance then taxi back to the hanger" all while you hear eastenders music in the background. Nearest known traffic in the air is on approach in ABZ 200 miles away.

And if "whats ya wx loon" "****e mate" "aye but is it do able" "I said ****e not minging, hurry up I want ma newspaper with ma breakfast" works I suspect piper's way of doing it will work as well.

[Flyingmac]

Would you be flying a Tomahawk by any chance?






Yeah, I am flyingmac! How'd you guess??


Season's Greetings from Bagby International.:ok:

[Dave Wilson]

Bagby any good? Not been there. Just looked at the web thing and it says something along the lines of 'local traffic may land downwind' which sounds a bit scary. Do you have two circuits going on at once?

[Flyingmac]

We have a sloping runway. We tend to land uphill if the tailwind is 10kts or less. The slope quickly devours the excess groundspeed.

Likewise, it's common for aircraft to take off downhill if the tailwind is light.

We still get visitors who struggle to get their heads round this and insist on landing or taking off into wind regardless. I've seen them 4 up and full fuel take an uphill departure because it gives them a three or four knot h/wind.

It's often entertaining to watch.:)

[Dave Wilson]

Copied. Do you have fly ins and stuff? I tend to fly on Wednesdays but can do a weekend if it's for something special. Is the caff any good?