View Full Version : A380 flapless landing Auckland 22DEC
Sqwark2000
22nd Dec 2013, 08:24
G'day
EK406 did a flapless landing at AKL this afternoon after they declared they were not able to be extended. The chap on the radio said they would have a high approach speed and may require full length of 23L to roll out.
Just wondering what sort of Vref a A380 with 527pob might have for a flapless landing?
Anyone have that sort of info handy?
Cheers
S2k
donpizmeov
22nd Dec 2013, 08:33
165 to 170ish depending of weight.
Gate_15L
22nd Dec 2013, 08:42
165 to 170ish depending of weight.
Fairly impressive for a aircraft of that size, considering the NG has a fairly similar sort of target speed for a Trailing Edge Flap Up landing..
Pulled it off by A10 to boot.. with no hint of a brake fire....:)
underfire
22nd Dec 2013, 08:52
What is even more impressive is the typical FAS crossing the threshold at about 120kts...
Piltdown Man
22nd Dec 2013, 09:12
What is even more impressive is the typical FAS crossing the threshold at about 120kts...
Why? This is merely the result of good aerodynamics, wing design and modern manufacturing techniques.
PM
Why? This is merely the result of good aerodynamics, wing design and modern manufacturing techniques.
20 acres of wing:ok:
Capt Fathom
22nd Dec 2013, 09:46
Would be unusual to be totally flap less wouldn't it?
There are flaps and slats and leading edge devices everywhere on those things.
What failure would take out all of them?
underfire
22nd Dec 2013, 10:07
PM,
Would have to agree! :ok:
The engineering hit the sweet spot with this ac...
EDit: Vref is 20kts slower than a 777
Kubalson
22nd Dec 2013, 11:32
Link from Flightradar24:
Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! (http://fr24.com/2013-12-22/00:50/12x/UAE406/26833d8)
nitpicker330
22nd Dec 2013, 11:58
Who said he lost both Slats AND Flaps? :ok:
probably right nitpicker, flaps/slats separate so would normally not lose both same as earlier buses.
ThreeThreeMike
22nd Dec 2013, 17:02
Pardon my ignorance, I am not a transport category pilot and this is my first post here.
What issues might there be with deployment of just the slats and no flaps? Any unusual pitch attitude or other things to be considered?
Capn Bloggs
22nd Dec 2013, 18:38
The engineering hit the sweet spot with this ac...
Pity the aesthetics designers didn't! :}
tdracer
22nd Dec 2013, 18:57
A380 wing was designed for a (future) stretch and is hence oversized for the -800 model.
Capt Claret
22nd Dec 2013, 20:34
What issues might there be with deployment of just the slats and no flaps? Any unusual pitch attitude or other things to be considered?
No significant negative issues on a 717. For example, at MLW: flaps & slats up Vref is 197, slats only Vref is 154, and slats + flap 40 Vref is 137.
Prince Niccolo M
23rd Dec 2013, 04:29
If Clarrie and his mates could fly without the autopilot and flight director, I'm sure that they would notice that the pitch attitudes down finals would be quite different between a clean wing, slats only and normal landing configuration...
If I'm wrong, I'm sure he'll tell me and quote the pitch attitudes at Vref for each configuration quoted! :E
donpizmeov
23rd Dec 2013, 04:34
33M,
The approach speed is increased to Vref plus 30ish to keep the nose a bit lower for approach and landing to improve tail strike margain for landing. So the attitude would be around 7 degrees nose up instead of the normal 2.5 degrees nose up on finals. Only a little flare would be needed.
Brake to vacate won't work, so a normal autobrake setting would be used.
The don
Capt Claret
23rd Dec 2013, 05:36
Gee thanks Prince, I'd not have known about a different pitch attitude but for this thread!
Wizofoz
23rd Dec 2013, 06:39
EDit: Vref is 20kts slower than a 777
Than a 300ER, but then it has a MTOW 100 tonnes and a MLW 50 tonnes heavier then the original -200.
How much heavier would the later A380 models have been if the aircraft hadn't been a colossal manufacturing failure?
27/09
23rd Dec 2013, 06:49
How much heavier would the later A380 models have been if the aircraft hadn't been a colossal manufacturing failure? OUCH!!!!! thems harsh words. :E
donpizmeov
23rd Dec 2013, 07:58
A bit emotional there Wiz. Have you just seen the EK 380 new destinations for next year?
A landing 380, which is some 150t heavier than the landing 300ER, flying some 20kts slower isn't a bad effort. A min clean speed below 250kts when at 575T isn't too bad an effort either.
At least you will be able to fold your wings on the 777x when they arrive. That's something modernish, and I could not see this ever causing any problems.
Wiz is the wing on the 300ER really the same one that is on the light weight 772? Or are you telling porkies?
The Don
tdracer
23rd Dec 2013, 17:29
Wiz is the wing on the 300ER really the same one that is on the light weight 772
A little hesitant to get in the middle of this, but...
The wing is aerodynamically common between the 777-200, 200ER, and -300 (there are naturally structural differences - basically thicker gauge materials). The 777-300ER/200LR wing does have slightly more area due to the addition of the 'straked wingtips' but is otherwise aerodynamically common.
Wizofoz
23rd Dec 2013, 18:18
Wiz is the wing on the 300ER really the same one that is on the light weight 772? Or are you telling porkies?
They went for the raked wing tip instead of winglets, but the actual additional area is minimal, so, no, no porkies here, Don.
And I know the Aircraft makes money for EK, and hope like hell it will continue to do so when we have 120 of the things, but it will never make Euro 1 for Airbus, so whatever profits it makes for us, we can thank the EU taxpayer.
Do YOU think a stretched version will ever fly??