First radio failure

[ffnord]

After weeks of cursing the weather I managed to get a flight in from Netherthorpe to Peterborough Conington this weekend in preparation for my QXC. Played dodge the cloud on the way there with an acceptable landing and all the fun of paying £10 to use the loo and get back in the air :)

On the way back I resumed cloud dodging and all was well until my radio conked out over Newark (around half way) so did the rest of the flight squawking 7600 and flying at 1800ft to stay out of Doncaster's way. Got back and did an overhead join with much looking around for other traffic and got down safely.

I'm glad my first equipment failure happened with an instructor in the plane, not sure I would have been as calm on my own though the procedures from the training came straight to mind so at least that has sunk in.

[2high2fastagain]

Sounds like it all ended happily in the end. If you are on your own and things go wrong, then I can only offer the wise words my instructor offered many moons ago 'Panic Slowly'. Works every time (even when the retractable undercarriage wouldn't)

I had a radio failure earlier this year. I was pretty sure the whole unit was trashed, but continued to broadcast my intentions blind as I was trained. It turned out only my receive was broken and everyone along the way heard my calls, even if I stepped on a few people's calls along the way.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Always remember.... the radio is NOT a primary flight control, nor an aerodynamic aid to flight. Any aeroplane flys just as well without one as with one.

My spies tell me that not a lot of instructors today know that. ;)

[mixture]

My spies tell me that not a lot of instructors today know that.

Don't instructors teach Aviate, Navigate, Communicate these days ?

[ffnord]

Don't instructors teach Aviate, Navigate, Communicate these days ?
All of mine have done, and indeed that was one of the first things he said when it happened. I have to say I cannot fault the instruction given at Sheffield Aeroclub one bit.

[loggie1983]

I had a similar event not so long ago.

I was on my 3rd solo flight, all was going well; was circuit bashing until ATC requested i'd depart the circuit for some heavy traffic inbound/outbound and other Heli movements. Anyway, all was fine on my rejoin, clearance to continue, 1 ahead, notify ATC of final but no response. After a quick check i was not transmitting (the little icon was not showing) failed and failed again, about to climb and change transponder when my final attempt worked, clearance confirmed all within good time, landed and returned to my dispersal. All this lasted about 20-30 seconds if that.

Good learning for me since i had only completed around 16 hours total; good confidence boost when things don't go quite exactly as planned. (first time out the circuit on my own too!)

[Arclite01]

ffnord

Worry when the transponder setting is 7700

:}

Well coped with by the sounds of things

Arc

[airpolice]

So.... there I was, passing 1,500 feet climbing away from a big International Airport, on the third leg of my QXC when it all went tits up during the handover to the adjacent even bigger International Airport as I was about to transit their airspace.

I acknowledged the new freq and squawk, changed freq and when I pressed the transmit button, it fell apart!

I quickly reached for the other stick and transmitted by using that button, but the absence of sidetone suggested I wasn't going out.

I didn't fancy going back, (unannounced) to the airfield that I had just departed, and as I had been cleared to enter the control zone I continued en route while trying to fly the aircraft, keep a good lookout and plug my headset in to the other side of the aircraft. During this process I heard the zone controller telling me he was getting carrier only but if it was me, then I should continue to transit the zone as cleared.

Once plugged in, I was able to explain I'd had an equipment failure but it was resolved. I flew the last 100 miles by pressing the button on the right hand stick to talk to ATC.

Up until that point, I had thought that either Tx Switch activated both mikes.

Two days later I find out that at least two other club members, one an instructor, were aware that the Tx switch was "iffy" but hadn't snagged it.

Every day's a schoolday.

[guyleedsutd]

Was this radio failure yesterday around 1 o clock

[Pace]

We had a radio failure flying IFR into Cardiff in a Citation. All fine with Approach until changed to TWR and on the ILS.
Then Nothing no landing clearance so quickly back to approach! Still nothing.
One last time to TWR for a landing clearance! Nothing.
missed approach 7600 and into the hold.
Fiddled with everything :E Nothing! Then tries London Info. Bingo loud and clear ! explained our predicament and got a procedural clearance and landing clearance :ok:
as one poster said stay calm and a radio is not a flying problem but a communication problem

Pace

[mary meagher]

Nice one, Pace!

my trouble is I can never remember numbers, and in fact did transmit 7700 over Aboyne once....ATC sensibly assumed that a PA18 was NOT being hijacked, and phoned Deeside to sort things out later.

Later on, in Texas, talking to Houston enroute, having departed from a small airfield and filed a flight plan by phone, had a few minutes of radio not working, while IMC. Gave a real significance to all that training ...to FLY THE PLAN! which I did while pushing this and that and traced it down to the headset not being properly plugged in.

Houston hadn't noticed ....

[mad_jock]

Just so we all know what we are talking about.

7500 is highjack
7600 is coms failure
7700 is emergency
7800 is transponder broken.

[mary meagher]

thanks for that, Mad Jock. Told you I can't remember numbers..

But now the bad guys will know if you are secretly transmitting a hijack alarm......if they read PPRuNe, that is.

[Fionn101]

a handy way I learned to remember the numbers
75 = 7500

75 - Man Alive
76 - In a Fix
77 - On the way to Heaven

I hope this remains useless background info for you all ,
but just to note Wikipedia gives the squawk codes for all the bad guys to see.

[Andy_P]

I saw this thread early today, and it just helped me remember the transponder codes. I actually put some thought into it before I opened the thread. Opened the thread again at night and I remembered the codes. Nailed it. You guys just helped a noob again! :ok:

[gemma10]

Am I being dim here or what. If the transponder is broken, what is the purpose of entering 7800. :rolleyes:

[worrab]

If the transponder is broken, what is the purpose of entering 7800
Didn't you cover this one for your RT exam?

[Andy_P]

Am I being dim here or what. If the transponder is broken, what is the purpose of entering 7800.

Didn't you cover this one for your RT exam?

As a noob here, I can only assume that you set it to 7800 if you cant confirm its working?? At a guess, no confirmation from an ATC? Time for me to do some more reading I guess!

[Fostex]

I remember reading about a controller giving some RAF chaps a squawk with 8 in it. Took them a good ten mins to get back to the controller saying 'ha ha'!

[mad_jock]

Now fostex don't spoil the fun, it will make them go and look at the books.

which is the whole point of the statement. Its very effective actually at teaching the codes and also transponder theory.

Public humiliation is a very effective teaching tool if done in a humorous way.

[airpolice]

8 codes

Not as funny as it was before we had transponderfs with all ten digits available to press.

[Andy_P]

Now fostex don't spoil the fun, it will make them go and look at the books.

which is the whole point of the statement. Its very effective actually at teaching the codes and also transponder theory.

Public humiliation is a very effective teaching tool if done in a humorous way.

Ok, you almost got me I think. My books make no suggestion of 7800, just 1200,7600 and 7700 plus whatever ATC tells you. Some google detective work leads me to believe that if you can enter 7800, then perhaps you may have an issue!!

So how do I ask with out potentially spoiling it? 7777?

[mad_jock]

true but they do fall for it most of the time.

I have only ever had 1 FO who after reading the rest off from memory when given the 7800 just said "bog off you piss taking porridge wog"

I really enjoyed flying with him for two weeks. It stimulated me into thinking theory and basic principles again.

Andy go and search for transponder theory. Honest If I just tell you straight you will have forgotten it within a week. If you go and look it up you will think "piss taking porridge wog" and remember it for life.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I loved the 78 reference.


I used to teach 69, was used if one was going down................


flasher-mac already on..... glf

[Andy_P]

true but they do fall for it most of the time.

I have only ever had 1 FO who after reading the rest off from memory when given the 7800 just said "bog off you piss taking porridge wog"

I really enjoyed flying with him for two weeks. It stimulated me into thinking theory and basic principles again.

Keep that attitude, cause it just prompted me to learn something new. A lot of this stuff is not mentioned in the theory books, so a little prod from some with experience helps to broaden knowledge.

I am a naturally curious person, so I would probably learn this stuff on my own at some point, but I get a buzz from figuring it out when prompted!

[mad_jock]

Cracking Gulf, going to use that one when we are reviewing emergency descents.

Andy its really is the best way to teach someone, prod them in the right direction then if they still don't get it or have miss understood only then sit down and teach it. And the feeling of success having found it out for themselves is an added bonus, it also stimulates them to learn more because they enjoy that feeling and also the praise from the instructor for getting it right.

[Crash one]

I read the 7800 bit & then let the dog out, thinking "how the hell do you get 8 on it?". Haggis yaffling git! You got me there for a bit! I don't have one so I'm trying to remember it. Must keep up.

[gemma10]

Seems like I must keep up as well. Embarrased. :\

[mad_jock]

I hope you took it in the humour manner that it was intended Gemma.

Anyway if you have a shot at finding out yourself then if you have any questions you can PM me and I will help out.

[Pace]

6900 is the do not disturb code :E

[Pace]

6900 is the do not disturb code :E

[mad_jock]

Its Ok pace readability 5, no need to say again.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Humour aside for a moment, I've noted a few threads here and on the Flyer forum about RT failures - each time the pilot, usually relatively inexperienced, has clearly been fairly unnerved by the experience, and did not seem to have been totally clear about whether they'd done the right thing or not.

Okay, I'm an old fart who did his first solo non-radio anyhow. However, I still fly non-radio from time to time, and was taught adequately in my opinion how to deal with these (non) events.


So when did that change? Have we really got a generation of FIs now who just aren't teaching their students how to cope in the air without a voice at the end of the line - or who are passing out the message that RT helps aeroplanes fly?

After all, the number of threads we're seeing clearly shows (what I think that hairy ar*ed olduns like myself and the deranged Caledonian knew already) that radios do fail from time to time, so nobody should really be that surprised by it.

G

[AberdeenAngus]

Wait a few years then see what happens when the GPS packs in :E

[gemma10]

It was a good Gotcha. Taken light heartedly-I will go and stand in the corner! Or sit in the cockpit and twiddle with the knobs.

[mad_jock]

So when did that change? Have we really got a generation of FIs now who just aren't teaching their students how to cope in the air without a voice at the end of the line - or who are passing out the message that RT helps aeroplanes fly?

About sums it up.

The FI's will poo themselves never mind the student.

And as GPS becomes more prevalent in training aircraft as AA states there will be more and more who have never flown without the GPS being the sole navigation means for all intent and purposes.

I think the days of those of us that turn the sod off while in class G are numbered.

The look of horror when doing a check ride for SEP my actions for an Alternator failure were to turn the master switch off and continue to enjoy the flight and then when returning to land turn it back on were rather amusing from a 400 hour FI. In the end his only valid point was we wouldn't have time to fix it before the next lesson. But he was rather confused and somewhat hurt when I told him he was talking pish about an alternator failure being worthy of a mayday on a day VFR flight in class G.

[Genghis the Engineer]

But he was rather confused and somewhat hurt when I told him he was talking pish about an alternator failure being worthy of a mayday on a day VFR flight in class G.

You should have heard Scottish the day I had an alternator failure inbound to EGPK and told them that I was turning the transponder off and might lose the radio if the battery gave out.

I'm sure that controllers are supposed to be calming down worried pilots, not the reverse.

G

[mad_jock]

Don't know why I have been cleared to land via mobile at PIK refuelled and then departed again none radio after a hand swing. By the time I got up north there was still enough juice after shutting down to start the old girl.

I might add I was using Scottish info and PIK approach only. I think PIK I was interrupting the archers so if I was happy they were happy.

Hand swinging is another procedure that the majority of FI's will poo themselves when they hear it mentioned. I used to go for days when the starter was broken until the next 50 hour check was due.

[Piper.Classique]

Had our radio go TU in Poland a while back, just before we gave in to the airspace dragons and got a transponder.
The return journey to France was a bit of a zig zag but one managed, with a certain amount of PPR by phone. Including the arrival at Nancy Essey in thousand foot overcast rain, with the warm front arriving ahead of schedule. We had carrier wave and intermittent receive and the controller was, unasked, and very helpfully, gettting us to transmit for QDM.
As it happened we were on track, but it was a good thought!
So were the runway lights and parking next to the entrance. :ok:
Twere more than a bit damp. The cub spent two weeks in a heated hangar waiting for the next VFR wx at a weekend (non radio through the military zones)
No charge.

Handswinging...... six months of that while we waited for a new starter motor. With shower of sparks mags.......

This FI don't poo herself with a radio failure :E

[Steve6443]

a handy way I learned to remember the numbers
75 = 7500

75 - Man Alive
76 - In a Fix
77 - On the way to Heaven

I learnt a similar thing:

75: Man with a knife

76: hear nix (german for nothing)

77: trouble in heaven

[High-Flyer2]

I was taught

75: Taken alive

76: Can't get a fix

77: Going to heaven

78: Pearly gate :ok:


HF2

[mary meagher]

Its nearly my bedtime, but don't want to sign off without one more yarn, though I rather think I have mentioned this episode before....

Regarding radio failure. Used to happen a lot in my Supercub. But radio yak is a pain anyhow. When flying X-country without an engine, I usually turn the radio off just to enjoy the peace and quiet.

Coming back from my first X-channel flight in my dear old Supercub, the radio was unreliable despite attention from various experts on the continent. So before departing Le Mans for Le Touquet, I thought it wise to telephone the tower at Le Touquet.

Very sorry to trouble you, but I am intending to arrive at your airport about 10 am, my radio will transmit but not receive.

Not to worry, said the charming ATC, just give us a call when you are near and we will give you ze green light!

How splendidly traditional is that! As instructed, I radioed inbound and as I turned base onto final, ATC stepped out on her balcony, and flashed three greens!.

Back to basics in every sense.

[wrecker]

Back To Basics
Bring back Bradshawing and IFR ( I follow roads)

[mad_jock]

lets face it those of on here that are more than comfy with the radio tits up, the transponder tits up, the alternator tits up, the starter motor tits up.

Are in an ever getting smaller minority.

Give me an engine that provides power and window to look out of and I happy as a happy thing in class G. But I know that is so so outside the comfy zone for so many pilots now.

We more than likely have several people reading this thread nashing teeth and saying to themselves irresponsible arseholes should have their licenses taken off them.

[piperboy84]

We more than likely have several people reading this thread nashing teeth and saying to themselves irresponsible arseholes should have their licenses taken off them.

Hope not, if I am just faffing around locally I sometimes don't bother with the headsets, I like to listen to the engine and any other noises just to hear how things are doing.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

lets face it those of on here that are more than comfy with the radio tits up, the transponder tits up, the alternator tits up, the starter motor tits up
The radio and transponder (and navaids come to that) wouldn't bother me (in VMC) (except that I'd be mildly irritated that I wasn't getting what I was paying the rental for). An alternator failure would probably make me return home. A starter motor failure would prompt the response "you must be joking, find me another one".

[mad_jock]

piper utter rubbish that comes out of certain CFI's is unbelievable.

Would like to say its a southern English thing but we have our own ones up North as well.

The utter rubbish that comes out of a PPL examiner way up north is unbelievable. He has crashed planes through wires has allsorts of club rules and all the rest which he frequently ignores himself. But people see him as a god of aviation.

Rest of us see him as a fat idiot that needs to go up three sizes of flight suits. I think the record of one of my students was 45 mins out of 2 hours on a test him showing them how it should be done. The idiot even tried to MOR me for sending an expired SEP PPL out solo using normal rules doing solo circuits and refused to do a test because of illegal flight activity.

It took his wife and the head of policy at the CAA to make him do the test.

[RatherBeFlying]

Had parked for a week taking a course. Returned to field in the late afternoon, paid the fuel bill, then proceeded to do preflight. Undid the caps to check and only fumes visible. Went pack to office, VISA slip promptly torn up, but the fuel truck had just broken down; so had to do short flight to get gas in the dark.

Could not get second radio to work, even with the volume all the way up:confused: The first radio was working; so called the destination tower.

After landing while getting gassed up, examined second radio more closely. The power switch was independent of the volume and not lit:mad: That was my first night flight in that particular aircraft.

Sadly a few weeks later another pilot wrote it off after a PIO collapsed the nose strut.

[A and C]

I at lease once in a PPL course fail the radio on the student, ATC is briefed to expect the non radio arrival and I get to listen to the goings on as the radio magically only fails for the student.

It is a real confidence building excersise for the student to see the system on light signals kick into action and to see that a VFR radio failure is NOT a crisis.

However other pilots in the CCT sometimes seem to be able to make a non- radio aircraft into their own crisis, it's very abusing to listen to when your student is blissfully following the proper course of action totaly unaware of the crisis others are making of the situation.

[Pace]

A and C

But if your on an instrument approach with a cloud base of 300 feet and an RVR of 700 meters you aint going to see NO lights :{ sorry you will not see landing clearance lights

Pace

[A and C]

I an not going to be training a PPL with a 300 ft cloud base and 700m RVR and see little point in discussing the drills to be used for LVP on a private flying forum.

What is needed on this part of the forum is good advice for the average private pilot.

[Pace]

A&C

Apologies! Just me being silly :ok:

Pace