RDU-bound plane plummets in mid-air

[AmericanFlyer]

RDU-bound plane plummets in mid-air | abc11.com (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9324572)

[NG_Kaptain]

And they leveled of at 25,000' narrowly missing,take your pick, (school,hospital,church,orphanage).

[bobstay]

"Flight 3426 experienced a maintenance alert as they were on descent into RDU. The Captain declared an emergency and descended the aircraft to 25,000 feet where the alert was resolved."

"ABC11 has learned that the maintenance alert went off due to irregular cabin pressure"

"He said, we're going down. And everyone is looking around like, is this a joke? Is he serious? And then you felt the nosedive"

While technically he was speaking the truth, it sounds like the captain could have chosen his words a little more carefully.

[oceancrosser]

"Maintenance alert", "going down". Seems like both the captain and the communications "specialist" are both inept at, well communicating. :ugh:

[flarepilot]

many years ago, one of our pilots made the same call, but just to the flight attendants saying they had trouble and were going down.


it too was a minor pressurization issue.


and the flight attendants briefed for a crash landing.

both were right, both were wrong.

and it was written (by me), if you have to say this sort of thing say: WE WILL BE MAKING A RAPID DESCENT TO DEAL WITH A MINOR PRESSURIZATION ISSUE. EVERYTHING WILL BE ok IN JUST A MOMENT.

[MichaelKPIT]

I was a deadheading crew member a few years back on a flight from PIT to BUF. Winter, snow, horrible conditions. We were held at PIT for while but eventually took off, and about half way there the pilot comes on the pa, with these exact words: "Conditions in Buffalo are still below our minimums, but we're going to shoot the approach and see what happens." I knew what he meant, but the operating cabin crew had the devil's own job trying to tell the psgrs that we weren't going to be on the news that night!

[Herod]

I once was operating a flight to Belfast Aldergrove airport. The weather was below minima, so I advised the pax that we would be landing at Belfast Harbour instead. Panic down the back when someone assumed I meant we were ditching in the harbour.

[flyboyike]

What's the max altitude limitation for single-pack operations on a 737?

[RAT 5]

NG. If you depart on single pack then FL250. If the pack fails in flight it's your call. If you're above FL250 you can decide to stay there and monitor cabin pressure. If you are climbing from below FL 250 your fuel load might have some input into your decision where to level off.

[underfire]

no reports of O2 masks deploying...

so cabin pressure must not have been an issue...

[pattern_is_full]

When talking to ATC, concise "pilotese" is a virtue.

When talking to the cabin: slow down, take your time, avoid jargon, think about what your words will convey, and speak "human."

(if the situation is so dire that you don't have time, then aviate and navigate - and save the communication for when you do (hopefully) have the time to do it right.)

;)

[underfire]

In an email to Stroud obtained by CNN, Southwest said the pilot “inadvertently activated the PA system.”

[BOAC]

What's the max altitude limitation for single-pack operations on a 737? - for Jurassic&Classic, 370, for NG 410.

[Airbubba]

In an email to Stroud obtained by CNN, Southwest said the pilot “inadvertently activated the PA system.”

As we know, the first thing you do with loss of pressurization is get your O2 masks on. You have to flip a couple of switches to make the mic in the mask do what you want in many planes. And it varies with the carrier, the country and O2 mask manufacturer from what I've seen. I found out here on PPRuNe years ago that CAA certified planes have a locking transmit button on the yoke, FAA planes generally do not.

Hard to tell with third hand info and a non-pilot journalist but perhaps the captain was meaning to talk on the interphone to the FO and hit the PA button instead. At least he didn't give extended commentary on WN cabin crew demographics over VHF this time. ;)

I was a deadheading crew member a few years back on a flight from PIT to BUF. Winter, snow, horrible conditions. We were held at PIT for while but eventually took off, and about half way there the pilot comes on the pa, with these exact words: "Conditions in Buffalo are still below our minimums, but we're going to shoot the approach and see what happens." I knew what he meant, but the operating cabin crew had the devil's own job trying to tell the psgrs that we weren't going to be on the news that night!

Years ago a future Fed Ex B-777 captain was landing an EMB-110 at night with a gusty crosswind on an icy runway at KPKB (Parkersburg, West Virginia). The tower had inbound lightplane traffic for a cross runway and asked the Bandeirante crew on short final if they could turn off short of the runway intersection after landing. The FO picked up the wrong mic and announced to the terrified pax 'Tower, we're not going to make it!'

[Desert185]

No SLF, no hosties, no worries. :ok:

[flyboyike]

NG. If you depart on single pack then FL250. If the pack fails in flight it's your call. If you're above FL250 you can decide to stay there and monitor cabin pressure. If you are climbing from below FL 250 your fuel load might have some input into your decision where to level off.


I suspected as much.

[Airbubba]

NG. If you depart on single pack then FL250. If the pack fails in flight it's your call. If you're above FL250 you can decide to stay there and monitor cabin pressure. If you are climbing from below FL 250 your fuel load might have some input into your decision where to level off.

no reports of O2 masks deploying...

so cabin pressure must not have been an issue...

I believe in every pressurized plane I've flown you get a cabin altitude warning before the masks drop. If you get lower quickly you might be able to get the cabin to stabilize on less than full pack output.

Also, I've heard of a crew doing an expedited descent to FL250 with loss of a pack only to find out that's it's an MEL limitation, not an enroute procedure.

Having said that, extended operation at high altitude with a single pack in a twin is a judgment call. If you go low and have to divert for fuel, you were wrong. If you stay high and the other pack fails and you make the papers, wrong again. Unless, in either case the feds say great job, that's what we like to see. :ok:

[ManaAdaSystem]

Also, I've heard of a crew doing an expedited descent to FL250 with loss of a pack only to find out that's it's an MEL limitation, not an enroute procedure

QRH memory items are there for a reason. QRH knowledge poor, general systems knowledge poor.

[GroundProxGuy]

Flight Track Log ? SWA3426 ? 12-Nov-2013 ? KTPA - KRDU ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA3426/history/20131112/2130Z/KTPA/KRDU/tracklog)

According to this data (1 minute sample rate) they peaked at 9,900 ft/min in the dive. At the reported 504 kt groundspeed, that would be an 11 degree descent angle.

[Capot]

When talking to the cabin: slow down, take your time, avoid jargon, think about what your words will convey, and speak "human."Just like the Irish pilot of the Beverley said via the PA to the 50 or so Army personnel cooped up in the boom, acutely aware of the fact that we had already had 2 attempts to take off at Bahrain on a hot day,

"OK then, this is our last try. We'll get off if its the last thing we do."

The Beverley boom could be quite a smelly place.

[direct ortac]

I agree what is said at this critical moment is very important. It would also be a good idea to brief the PAX during the safety demo that besides the masks deploying if the cabin depressurizes, the aircraft needs to get to a lower altitude quickly and this will be a steep descent and may cause alarm but it quite normal.

I was on an airline within the past 18 months that did mention a descent if cabin pressure failed but didn't go any further. I can't remember which airline it was. So some are already doing a partial brief but all could go further and save a lot of angst if it happens.