View Full Version : Twins over London
I know the issue of single-engined light aircraft over London has been done to death on here, but I just had a question with regards to twins.
It's often been said on here that twins are exempt from the glide clear rule, hence you could legally accept a clearance in a Seneca in the City class D over central London, but where is this actually specified?
The rules just say that you must be able to glide free in the event of 'a power unit failure', and that helicopters are exempt. Is it made explicit somewhere that it's ok if you have two engines?
To be clear, I'm just a pedant who is interested in the legality of it (clearly illegal in a single) - I'm not wanting to start a discussion on whether it's a good idea to sightsee over central London in a light aircraft!
ShyTorque
8th Nov 2013, 16:03
Quite a lot of airliners into LCY and LHR are "only" twin engined....
Yes but they are there for the purposes of taking off or landing, which is also an exemption is it not?
ShyTorque
8th Nov 2013, 16:53
The relevant words are here:
(d) The land clear rule
An aircraft flying over a congested area of a city, town or settlement shall not fly below such height as would permit the aircraft to land clear of the congested area in the event of a power unit failure.
By definition, if your twin can maintain altitude with one engine failed, you comply with the rule.
a few years ago I was directed up the river by Thames Radar as they had IFR traffic. This was low level in a Seneca I went all the way up to Tower Bridge. Over the top of parliament was amazing as you could look down the chimney stacks and into the streets below.
Not sure about now and whether you would get a sight seeing clearance up there :E
Pace
portsharbourflyer
9th Nov 2013, 15:17
Seneca 1, the best roc I ever got on one of those simulated assymetric was 200 ftpm and that was just me and the instructor on board, with four up with one engine out I can't imagine you could achieve level flight. So engine out with a seneca 1 would surely still meant a dip in the Thames.
SENECA ONE ?? Are there any still about :ugh: I shut a Seneca 4 down leaving the UK coast and flew it all the way to france restarted and landed in France! Not a clever thing to do back then but hey ho :E Very few twins will not fly level on one at grosse weight
pace
portsharbourflyer
9th Nov 2013, 18:22
That was early 2007 last time I flew a Seneca 1. So not sure if there are any still remaining.
Sir Niall Dementia
10th Nov 2013, 10:45
Most weekends you will find a Seneca flying sightseeing pax over central London from Stapleford, I used to fly a Seneca 1 and a Cougar (neither great on one engine) over the city for traffic reports, these days, like ShyTorque I go to Battersea regularly in twin rotary, and on a beautiful day I find it difficult to believe I'm being paid, (on a grotty night its' a different matter!)
Sometimes you will hear a Rapide flying the same route as the Seneca, and they are truly poor on one!
SND
Sometimes you will hear a Rapide flying the same route
Yes the Rapide is one of the few where the second engine is to choose your landing site even in the cruise :uhoh: But there are not many light twins which will not quite happily fly level at gross all day on one :ok:
Pace
SpannerInTheWerks
10th Nov 2013, 18:20
G-FBPL at BPL was operated by FlyBpl until recently.