Welcome at Flying Clubs

[J.A.F.O.]

The recent vetting thread mentioned the welcome that people often get at flying schools and clubs; gliding clubs and parachuting centres.

Given the fact that we're all in this because we love aviation and clubs and schools are often heard complaining about lack of members; why don't people get a better welcome?

Why does morose, surly or disinterested sum up the first impression many places give?

I've visited dozens of airfields, sometimes by road, mainly by air, and I can count the warm welcomes that I've received on one hand.

Yes, I know that it might be my miserable face turning up that caused everyone to turn sour but let's pretend it's not that; just for arguments sake.

[Blues&twos]

Similar experience about ten years ago when my family and I were looking for a sailing club to join. At some of the places no-one even spoke to us when we wandered into the clubhouse for info. Similarly when I was giving gliding a first try out.
I found it very odd....these people are supposed to be "enthusiasts" !

[BAe 146-100]

It seems to be a UK thing, in the USA its almost completely the opposite I have found, possibly because flying is more accessible over there.

It seems to be worst at smaller airfields, where they still have that mentality that they don't really like 'visitors', they just like their own circle. Thankfully I have never experienced it personally, but I have seen it go on first hand to other people.

Its not just flying though, this type of thing goes on at golf clubs, tennis clubs and all other 'rich' associated pastimes. It is strange, but unfortunately I don't think that sort of attitude is going to change, particularly in GA.

[sapperkenno]

Sherburn I feel is crap in that respect, and quite a number of times it feels like you're putting the staff out when you go up to the flight desk.
Stark contrast to the times I spent at Thruxton and Old Sarum while based down that way with the Army. Much more friendly atmosphere down south I found, and that's coming from a Leeds lad, born and raised.

[Winhern]

Are there two Sherburns?

Maybe I've been lucky, but on the two occassions I've flown in the girls at the desk have been very polite and helpful. :)

Maybe they just recognise a fellow Yorkshireman ;)

[adambsmith]

Sherburn were great when I turned up unannounced after being cancelled (weather) for the xth time at Leeds.

When my Mum and Dad turned up for a visit, again they were well looked after.

[T10]

Any Aeros branch will be welcoming and helpful (no I don't work for them).
The following are also nice friendly places or so I have found.
Wellesbourne
Bidford
Liecester
Wickenby

Regards
T10

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've noticed at our farmstrip in Hampshire, we get occasional gliders come in, usually from Lasham. When they do, if I'm around I usually stroll over with a greeting of "welcome, kettle's on, anything I can do to help" - the first thing I see on the glider pilot's face is relief. I'll keep doing the same, but for as long as relief is their first response - there's a problem out there.

My experience is probably 60% indifference, 10% grumpiness, 30% a friendly welcome. It could be better.

G

[Ebbie 2003]

Not so good here either, according to some

Barbados light aircraft club - YouTube

maybe not too friendly, but, this is a bit of a caricature/exaggeration, although someone seems to have put a lot of effort into documenting their experience of the brush off.

A good example of mess with the younger members of society and they'll "Internet yo' ass"?

[fireflybob]

Apart from the odd notable exception there is a complete lack of marketing of general aviation in the UK.

Unfriendly welcomes at aerodromes is a symptom of this malaise.

[maxred]

Apart from the odd notable exception there is a complete lack of marketing of general aviation in the UK.

And the committees that run these 'clubs' are the very ones who moan that the business is unsustainable, why do we have a dwindling amount of members, the aircraft are flying wrecks, GA is too expensive, the younger generation are not interested, we could go on and on.

Manners and courtesy cost nothing, and yet, with the notable exceptions, many clubs lack a hint of the very thing that would engender and facilitate more people to come along.

Yes, it is a very odd set up.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Guys,

I can't speak about other countries, but I still can't imagine people being treated in other countries of the English speaking world as they are here.

I definitely think it must be a UK thing and affects many spare-time, activity clubs, not just those engaged in costly activities like flying.

It does make a difference if the place you visit has a reception desk. If it has, then the receptionists will usually ask you to sit down while they find someone to come and talk to you, which they then do quite promptly.

If there is no reception desk, however, then you can be left standing there looking like a spare part, while people mill around you going about their individual concerns, but ignoring your presence completely.

This can be partly due to a misplaced form of politeness; (i.e. not wishing to poke their noses in where it may not be wanted), but is more usually just plain unconcern.

Occasionally, you will be confronted with outright rudeness. I always remember going to have a look at a (then) new gliding club near Kidlington in the late sixties. I asked to see the CFI and was then confronted with a ferocious character who had all the charm of an Alsatian in a scrap metal yard who 'welcomed' me with the statement that he wanted 'genuine club members', not 'customers'. He didn't explain how the two differed. It was clear from his demeanour, however, that even before having spoken to me he had decided I was definitely a 'customer' and must be sent away with a flea in my ear.

In 2005, I joined a flying club at a certain aerodrome not a million miles from Woking. I attended one of their committee meetings to be interviewed and for my membership application to be vetted and I was welcomed into the club with the comment that they were 'so pleased to have another lady member'.

A few weeks later I went to their summer barbeque. I was a little late arriving and the barbeque was already in progress. All the existing members, (none of whom I knew,) were standing around in groups talking. I sat down and waited for someone at least to ask who I was and what I was doing there or else for payment of my barbeque entrance money. Not a soul came near. After half an hour I got up and left. I left the club shortly afterwards.

I have long believed that if a number of Brits were forced to share a lifeboat, the first thing they would do would be for half of the occupants of the boat to start a club with the express purpose of denying membership to the other half. That's what we're like.

Regards,

Broomstick.

[Capetonian]

It's a bit like the old tale about the different nationalities that were stranded on a desert island and apart from the Brits they all formed their own various communities. A year later when someone asked the Brits why they weren't talking to each other, the answer was : "Oh we're still waiting for someone to introduce us."

[Dan_Brown]

The class system and it's public school graduates have a lot to answer for. It all filters down from there.

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Some time in late 1991 my GF at the time and I decided it would nice to learn to fly together. I bought the news stand GA magazines and looked up the flight training, adverts for which filled up a good proportion of the magazine. We went down to Shoreham airport and were lured in by a welcoming sign outside one of the flying club / schools. As posters above have described, once through the door we were completely ignored. It is a socially alien environment, so new folks need some sort of welcome. After being ignored for a few minutes we left. £6K of training income (at 1991 prices) walked out of the door. I’ve no doubt the club complained bitterly, among themselves, about the lack of new people joining.

Sadly it’s not just a UK problem. There’s an article in Flying Magazine, reprinted in the More BAX Seat collection describing exactly the same problem in the ‘States.

It doesn’t need the busy Instructor or Top Brass at a flight school to talk to potential customers. A pre-solo student pilot will probably be one of the most enthusiastic people you will find in the building. They may get a bit ‘off message’ but they will probably be honest about their experience. If that experience is good then all is well. If not, perhaps the school needs to look inside before looking outside.

As well as flight schools we can do something about it ourselves. I’ll risk the wrath of the assembled company by attaching a link to a rant of mine that AOPA UK printed in the April 2013 issue (page 58) of the magazine.

GA Magazine - April 2013 (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3dSIewAbvXPcXVXNjNFUkRfQ2s/edit?usp=sharing)

[piperboy84]

GTE
the first thing I see on the glider pilot's face is relief. I'll keep doing the same, but for as long as relief is their first response - there's a problem out there

Hit the nail on the head, i've seen the same thing at the farm strip here, upon visitors arrival I sometimes run over on the quad to check out their machine and chat about their days flying etc, upon pulling up and prior to extending a welcome I can tell by their expression the are expecting the "Get orf my land" routine. Shame really, but on the flip side it makes you put the extra effort into being a tad more polite to make them feel welcome (even for the smart arses :O)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

This can be partly due to a misplaced form of politeness; (i.e. not wishing to poke their noses in where it may not be wanted), but is more usually just plain unconcern.
Stange people standing around looking lost are often someone else's passengers, the someone else being in the loo / doing the paperwork / getting the aircraft refuelled / whatever.
A few weeks later I went to their summer barbeque. I was a little late arriving and the barbeque was already in progress. All the existing members, (none of whom I knew,) were standing around in groups talking. I sat down and waited for someone at least to ask who I was and what I was doing there or else for payment of my barbeque entrance money. Not a soul came near. After half an hour I got up and left.
Any chance that the club members there were socially dysfunctional aeroplane geeks who were simply frightened of a real live woman?

[Helen49]

Nothing to do with the class system, I've walked into pubs in very 'ordinary' locations where the regulars have looked at me as though I had just stepped off Mars and been in upmarket pubs where the welcome has been quite the opposite.

I think it's more to do with the selfish society in which we live, where so many [not all, thankfully] think only of themselves?
H49

[localflighteast]

not just Britain, same here as well.
I've never experienced rudeness but casual indifference seems to be the order of the day.

my compulsive need to be early means I've sat for a fair few hours in our reception area and again I wouldn't call it rudeness but I'm astounded as to how paying customers are treated. Especially those on "intro. flights". You should be treating them like fricken royalty so that they'll come back.

[ShyTorque]

I attended the AGM of a flying club not long back. Most of the discussion revolved around a proposal to deny social members a full vote at future AGMs, a vote was to be taken. Apparently some flying members were afraid that they might be outvoted by social members, regarding the running of the club - even though the former outnumber the latter by about 4 to 1!

I pondered where all these concerned flying members actually were on that evening - only about 50 people in all were in attendance.... out of some 300 or so.

I've been a member of said club since the late 1980s. Initially I was a full flying member but for the last few years I've stopped flying from there and taken a social membership instead. I'm still a regular customer of the restaurant and try to support all the social events, if nothing else for a bit of loyalty. As I pointed out to one flying member, who said he didn't recognise many people - the social members patronise the restaurant so it remains profitable (and available to all) whereas the flying members turn up, and fly off elsewhere and eat at someone else's airfield restaurant.

Since becoming a social member I had always previously abstained from voting at any AGM, but of course this time I made sure I cast my vote. Thankfully common sense prevailed and the proposal was defeated.

It's possibly the "antisocial" flying club member who prefers not to give visitors much of a welcome because they simply see any visitors walking in as a negative thing.

[m.Berger]

Maybe it is what you are like? I have never experienced this and have always been made welcome. If I'm around when the CFI has a trial flight to do, he will often leave me with the customer while he goes off to fuel up and do the paperwork. Sure I'm an evangelist for flying but I'm friendly and welcoming. People need their excitement charging up and to be told that they are going to have a great time, meet a host of nice people and get a lot of help and support but there is a perception which I share that you don't drift into flying, you really have to want to do it and therefore you will, come Hell or high water. You won't be easily scared off.
(On my first club night at HMFC, The chairwoman came up to me, welcomed me in and offered to buy me a drink. They haven't got rid of me yet.!)

[The Fenland Flyer]

I've always been made very welcome at other airfields, some of the friendliest have been Cromer, Boston, Sibson, Fishburn, Sandy, Priory Farm, Skegness, Husbands Bosworth, Damyn's Hall and North Coates.

Visitors to our club at Chatteris are always made very welcome and are given at least one free cup of tea :)

[Nervous SLF]

This attitude also applied to a motorcycle club that I used to belong to in the UK. As time went on I gradually made progress
up the ladder and did more stuff for the club so that after a few years I was almost treated like one of the founding members.
To cut the story short I went back 10 years after emigrating and a couple of the old guard were still there!! They didn't seem
to want to remember me even though I tried to get them talking by saying "do you remember etc". I also dropped it in the
conversation that I was only on a visit back to the UK - hoping in a way that that might help start them off but no indifference ruled.
After about 2 hours I just left quietly.

Have you also noted that even forums seem to have their own cliques and it takes a while for newbies to be talked to?

[maxred]

How perceptive. Shirley not this one..........:hmm:

[abgd]

Ah well, at least it's more welcoming than the radio control scene...

[maxred]

Ah well, at least it's more welcoming than the radio control sceneThe only scene I ever found remotely welcoming was 'The Female Mud Wrestling Society'
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs_PnemZszA)

[TCU]

BroomstickPilot

If the folks in Royston Vasey ever need to set up a flying club, the place you describe near Woking would be a perfect model for them

[Lone_Ranger]

Its a real Shame, I've lost count of the number of places in Britain I've walked into...tried my best to engage and got that look that says... "are you nuts, I've never seen you before in my life, what are you doing talking to me"

I am British born and bred, but I have never got, what the big problem is with being nice to a newcomer

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
I echo a lot of the sentiments. Saying that, Irish clubs do tend to be very welcoming and our Fly-Ins tend to be very good fun, although you do tend to get the occasional snobbery. I have encountered the Classic versus Homebuilt attitude, the anyone but microlights attitude and the helis versus the rest attitude. As it happens, some of our flight schools have only a passing acquaintance with customer care, as is practised by even the most basic of shops.I also have to echo localflighteast's remark about arriving early and seeing people being ignored. More than once, I've seen money leave the premises as potential customers are ignored or fobbed off.
I'd have to use the old schoolteacher's line: could do better.

regards
TDD

[flarepilot]

many years ago in FLYING magazine, an article about this subject was written with a very experienced flying writer pretending to be a newbie...he went up on demo rides etc and he felt he was treated badly...the occasional nice place was always rewarded by the truth.

I think the writer's name was bach or was it collins can't recall for sure.


it made an impression on me and I always treated people quite well when I was instructing...taking them on a walk to the instructor bench and talking planes. Made them feel important and welcome to the world of the sky.

[Captain Smithy]

Like any other clubs, Flying Clubs can have a range of personalities, some positive and others not so. Some are welcoming and friendly whilst others can be a bit cliquey, elitist and snobby. Instructors at most places tend to be good and easy to get on with, it's other members that can be a bit strange at times. Some people just aren't that sociable, that's more or less it. And some are just plain selfish...

Smithy

[Flyingmac]

Do you fly a flex or fixed wing, helicopter, powered parachute or kite?

Are you simply an enthusiast who likes to hang out and maybe have a bacon butty?

Do you need some fuel (Jet A1 or Avgas) at a sensible price and don't want to be charged a landing fee for the privilege?

Are you just curious about what goes on at the airfield?

Would you like some VERY cheap aircraft hire? EV-97, C172, PA28.

If you can answer Yes to any of the above.........

A VERY WARM WELCOME TO BAGBY.:):):)

We're a bit soggy at the moment so best to ring first. :rolleyes: (Helicopters fine).

[fireflybob]

Maybe we need a flying club/school welcome sketch along these lines:-

Room with a View?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I have the great fortune when flying rotary to be paid to go to a lot of small airfields.

The pleasure of seeing Sleap, Dunkeswell, Gamston, Wickenby, Shobdon, Compton Abbas, Kemble, Barton and many others on the day's flight brief compared to the pain of Heathrow, Gatwick Luton Manchester Intl' or the very worst Southampton makes it very worth while.

I meet great people, see different aircraft, and make plans to fly my own aircraft in when I get a chance.

There are the grot ones though. I once spent a day parked at a gliding club roughly near N51, 42.47 W002 07.83 where a thoroughly objectionable character spent a morning sniffing revoltingly and telling me how commercial aviation didn't care about GA and would see all of GA disappear, this after I'd paid the landing fee in cash. As I left I pointed out that he hadn't bothered to find out anything about me once he had started his tirade and that I am a BGA instructor as well as owning my own light aeroplane. We should have been going there once a week for the last four years which would have added up to around £ 10, 000 in landing fees to the gliding club, but because of him (and he was appallingly rude to my passengers as well) we go elsewhere and get treated as part of the furniture which is just how we like it.

SND

[much2much]

well i guess it varies from day to day,up north ,Sherburn i found friendly,Neterthorpe almost hostile and i used to love the place,a chap flying a Pawnee at the local gliding club down south ,asked "What are you from?" in a very hostile manner and an other at the same place offered me a brew in the club house,my"mates" at the local microlight club were most unfriendly to a visitor from up north who came in and expressed a intrest, greeting his enthusiasum with "of course we are not flying is not the wind a clue"i did point out had he been from Orkeney it was a mere zepher ,light and vareable, but really a reflection of British society as a whole, flying clubs in France and Aus i find most welcoming as i do sailing clubs. the latter here been really annal, o well ilove you all ,there loss.but it does little to promote GA

[Dave Wilson]

As already pointed out, you get the whole gamut of society and personality types at any type of club. I like to think our club is very welcoming but then we don't see many visitors. The ones we do get are smothered in niceness because we are so grateful to see them.

I've met some really obnoxious people in flying and I've met some great people but I can't for the life of me understand why people who obviously don't enjoy their flying or the people they meet when flying do it. What do they get out of it?


I have no interest at all in motor racing so I guess the thing to do is join a motor racing club, buy a racing car and then bitch and moan about racing cars and their drivers all day.

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Hi flarepilot,


I think the writer's name was bach or was it collins can't recall for sure.

I think you'll find it was Gordon Baxter (AKA Bax). The article was repeated in the More BAX Seat collection. Sadly nothing seems to have changed.

[Barcli]

Henstridge ....... Now dont get me started........:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[m.Berger]

Know what you mean.

[hoodie]

Henstridge is considerably friendlier over at the hangars than it is at the "clubhouse".

Such a shame.

[MagicWizard]

Yeah I agree. I helped out at a flying school once, and what a con it was too.

The deal was you scrub dishes for 8 hours a day. After four shifts you get half an hour flying lesson. Absolute rip off. I left after a day when I spoke to someone and asked how many lessons they had had. They said two. Yet they had been their two months already with one shift a weekend. It's just a way to lure you in to catch the flying bug, then you pay for lessons to get your licence quicker.

As a young person going there, the least I can say is that it was appealing.

As I drove up the driveway, it was full of pot holes. I drove past a rusty hangar and eventually parked up in the uneven car park. In pride of place in the grass parking area was a plane similar to a Beech King Air (can't remember exactly what it was) but it looked like it was from the 1960's. All of the planes were tatty and there wasn't a newish plane in sight.

I walked in the cafe and told them I was here to enquire about the volunteer scheme. The lady at the bar then said OK and said "I'll get you a drink and if you would like to sit their and wait for someone to come out". Great I thought, told her a drink I would like, then she asked me to pay!!! The way she said it made it sound like it was 'on the house' as I was a potential volunteer.

Then she potters over and asks me why I am here again. I tell her I am here for the volunteering scheme and she says she thought I was here for an interview for a job vacancy they had.

The then ushers me into the members room to speak to the manager about it. Met the manager who was colder than the ice in my drink, and told her I had emailed before hand. Told her my name and she said 'Oh I don't remember you'. Uhm thanks.

She explained the rip off scheme and I thought i'd give it a go anyway.

Was terrible. No one really welcomed me, and after the first day I was only allowed to text the kitchen manager to say whether I'd like to continue or not!!!

The only guys who made me feel welcome were the pilots, who were probably about 10 years or so older than me. The cafe was also full of old people.

I can say on behalf of the young population of the UK, a flying school is NOT where you want to spend your free time. You'd feel more at home in a care home watching people waiting to die.

Obviously this is just my experience, but GA doesn't fit in with the high profile pilot image that is thrust upon you as a child. If it was a bit cheaper and not so risky, i'd set up a flight school tomorrow purely for the younger population and get GA back on the radar of young people today!

[maxred]

And quite frankly that post states it all.:ugh:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Son of a friend used to spend a lot of his spare time around our flying club helping out, cadging flights, making tea.

Used to - he's busy now. He joined the RAF at 18 and last year at 21 or 22 flew a Tornado in the Queen's birthday flightpast.

But that was a real club wih no commercial interests. There aren't many of those nowadays.

G

[Frontal]

I know exactly what you mean about Henstridge, downright unfriendly!!

[Heston]

It is wrong, short-sighted and poor marketing/customer care for any business to treat potential customers in an off-hand way...

but...

the folk hanging around at flying clubs and schools don't necessarily have a vested interest in being welcoming (apart from common decency, which is in short supply these days) and 90% of folk who turn up at a GA airfield un-announced are spotters, tyre kickers and general Walter Mitty characters.



GA doesn't fit in with the high profile pilot image that is thrust upon you
as a child


That is indeed true - but the mistake is confusing your local club on a farm strip or crumbling WWII airfield with that image in the first place.

[rossmck]

As someone who's new to this game and spent a bit of time visiting various local - as I'm lucky to have a few in the area - flying clubs (some more commercial than others) I can say that I've experienced both sides of this and it was a big factor in my final decision in where to train, cost being a close second ;)

The warmest welcome and friendliest environment was without question Xrayalpha's Strathaven airfield. It's a small local grass strip, and if it weren't for the fact that I'd like to go on to get a Night and IMC Rating, and fly aircraft with 4 seats, that would have been the (very easy) decision made - unfortunately they only offer Microlight training (although the C42 is pretty close to a 'real' plane) and anyway it's not really suitable for a PA28 ...

The next best was one of multiple clubs/training schools based at a smaller local airport - the instructor was great, friendly and ultimately if not for the considerably lower cost at a closer (and ironically bigger) airport which is also pretty friendly, I'd have been there without question.

That said there was a couple which echo the experiences others have mentioned in this thread very much the air (no pun intended) of a 'private' club or society with no real interest in taking new members, the oft-promoted 'trial/experience flights' which seem to be the bread and butter of many of these organisations seemed more like a chore to some rather than something they enjoyed doing or in any way encouraging people to want to fly.

Lastly, there's the cost, I accept that flying is not a cheap business - and indeed fuel is probably more expensive in the UK than anywhere else... however there are huge price disparities across the country. A friend of mine trained at a small airfield down south where hiring a PA28 Cherokee is about £99, or £129 with an instructor. I live north of the border and am paying 40% more to train in the same aircraft - and the cheaper one is in better condition, but 240 miles away - so not really practical for training!

Mention even the 'lower' of these prices to people who don't have an interest in aviation or even to those who fly but in the US and watch their reaction..

The aforementioned friend now owns his own a/c, and got support and advice in doing that from others at the airfield... I know people who've made the same suggestion up here to be met with "oh, you don't ever want to own a plane, too much hassle" ... well that it may be, but still - why not encourage people who actually WANT to fly more often, potentially start a new sharing group or similar - surely having more people actively involved in GA is a good thing ?

Unfortunately I have neither the skill, confidence nor patience to become an instructor - otherwise I'd be tempted to try and form yet another club and try to do it differently...

The strange thing is, despite the somewhat frosty welcome at most places, particularly the first I went to, it never deterred me from wanting to get back up there!

[cockney steve]

That is indeed true - but the mistake is confusing your local club on a farm strip or crumbling WWII airfield with that image in the first place.

Well said, sir!:ok: At 13 years old, I worked 8.30 am to midnight, 7 days a week YES! REALLY! during the school holidays.....pay, back then , £10 a week probably equivalent to around £10 a day nowadays....Oh, and I got 1/2 hour for lunch and 2/- (10P ) lunch money.

today, they want it all, want it now and think it's their right.
Basic economics make GA in this country expensive and smaller, undevelopeds airfields, a financial nightmare.

how the hell a few landing fees and a bit of hangar-rental can sustain even the capital cost and maintenance and rates on a hangar , makes me wonder why anyone bothers providing those facilities.

In the past, most social clubs made substantial bar and catering profits which propped up the finances....those days are gone! drink-drive legislation killed it.


Higher membership fees, to rebuild the finances, lead to charges of elitism.

I dunno what the answer is, WRT "volunteering"...it is simply bartering your unskilled labour for the instructor's time, expertise and aircraft.

You could always get a "pot -washer's" job at a local restaurant/fast food outlet and save your wage to pay for instruction like the majority of students.


wanting the penny and the toffee come to mind.

[maxred]

Higher membership fees, to rebuild the finances, lead to charges of elitism.
The difficulty is that, and the politicians cant tell you this, is that it is all bust, broken, and no strategy to fix. Truth is, it is unfixable. So..

Lack of money, lack of 'profit', certainly makes Jack a dull boy. Running business, especially in aviation, can become a total drudge, with no clear way out. Unless you lock the door. As I stated earlier, manners and a smile cost nothing, but as you highlight, not everybody can manage this.

It is a really difficult situation. But being grumpy, rude, unwelcoming, has only one final outcome. The doors will shut, of that there can be no doubt.There are a lot of other issues, fuel at 2.20 a ltr, security, business rates, water rates, gas/electric and the list goes on, but through all of that, clubs must offer a sanctuary for those wanting and willing, and that comes with an intial smile, and Can I help You?

[Dave Wilson]

Having said all of that you sometimes forget as a pilot that others don't fly. I was at my club last year and our cleaner was in, lovely lady who comes in once a week to tidy up the mess left by a load of blokes. I casually mentioned 'When was the last time anybody took you up'? She said no one ever had so I told her to stop right away what she was doing and took her flying for an hour. She was absolutely made up and I was quite made up with how made up she was! It's easy to forget what a unique experience it is to people. I'm sure the other guys at the club hadn't left her out through meaness, they just probably never thought to ask; indeed I wouldn't have asked myself other than we were making idle conversation.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Seething have a very good system, they are a charity and to become a member you have to volunteer to do all sorts of odd jobs. It knocks the elitism bit on the head when the bloke cleaning the bogs also owns the smartest aircraft there.


SND