QF 9 Loads hemorrhaging

[A380-800R]

The QF 9 is leaving Melbourne with an average of 300 spare seats in economy some days well over that and is less then half full in business and 1st. Is the beginning of the end for this service?

[Dark Knight]

Where does QF9 operate to & from?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Let Google be your friend....as they say...

Qantas (QF) #9 Flight Tracker ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA9)

ML - Sandpit - Land of Lots and Lots of nice Steam Trains...

:p

[Monoccular]

In fairness, there are two legs. MEL DXB & DXB LHR.

which is hemorrhaging?

Both presumably code shared with EK.

[dizzylizzy]

Why don't you worry about your own role as CSM and stop drawing dramatic conclusions from AHB like the rest of that awful base.

[C441]

A friend of mine, a very successful businessman in a non-aviation field, recently asked me what I considered a very good question.

He said if he had started a partnership with someone else in his field, the last thing he would do is move his prime business into his partner's market. Instead he would look to use the partnership to expand, with the joint resources of his partner, into new markets.

His question? Why then does Qantas solely operate to Europe via Emirates Dubai hub, when the Qantas/Emirates partnership already has that market well and truly covered? Why not use their joint resources to expand Australia to various European ports via other markets?

The question arose as he can no longer fly on a Qantas aircraft from Brisbane to Europe; something he used to do almost once/month in 1st Class where available.

The equality of the Qantas/Emirates partnership also rated a mention.:rolleyes:

[Jackneville]

ah, the 'amazing' transformation continues............

[V-Jet]

Why don't you worry about your own role as CSM and stop drawing dramatic conclusions from AHB like the rest of that awful base.

I haven't done the 9 for a while, but I have no reason to doubt the load drop. It doesn't matter what job people have, it doesn't take a lot of grey matter to understand that Qantas would be managed better by a box of fish than the current pile of 'leaders' who seem to look upon Qantas as Michael Williamson saw the HSU.

[Romulus]

The QF 9 is leaving Melbourne with an average of 300 spare seats in economy some days well over that and is less then half full in business and 1st. Is the beginning of the end for this service?

Thanks for the tip!

Nice easy upgrades in there now!!

[PoppaJo]

BITRE statistics telling a different story

Flew the route with the said carrier last week full across all cabins.

[lc_461]

To be fair it is now the quiet season... loads ex Australia will likely stay down until mid November when Uni breaks up, school finishes etc etc.
How does that figure compare with other carriers?? SQ/CX/TG etc?

[man on the ground]

well I must have picked a bad day in september, cause the bloody thing was chockers! :bored: No upgrades in sight

Same with the 10 coming back.

[PoppaJo]

EY doing well out of Melbourne, this route they achieve their highest load factor across their network and out of all international carriers to/from Australia.

[moa999]

As some others have posted here, also the opposite experience.

Trying to redeem Business awards recently on QF1/2 or QF5/6 gives almost no availability....

Managed to get availability on BA15/16 via SIN

(was using a Qantas oneworld award in which EK is not an option)

[Berealgetreal]

Hmmm gee lets see who would I choose between EK and QF? Tough choice that one!

[Bumpfoh]

Been this way for a couple of weeks now with the odd more full day here and there.
Coming back it's full as a state school, quiet season as has been suggested.

[mtrench]

QF for sure.. all the business class emirates trips i have done have been nothing short of miserable with over worked under appreciated crew.

[73to91]

Help is on the way :ugh:

A rare opportunity has arisen for a highly motivated and talented individual to join the Qantas International Scheduling Team as a Scheduling Analyst. The role is responsible for driving and supporting the schedule development and network planning process through robust analysis of commercial and operational considerations. The International Scheduling Team manages the profitable delivery of the strategy for Qantas’ international operations and it is the key planning department in the airline.

Your accountabilities include developing international network scenarios, communicating with key stakeholders throughout the Qantas and creating presentations that clearly explain each proposal. You will cover all operational and commercial sign-off activities for international schedule proposals, and assist in the schedule publication (implementation process). In addition, you are responsible for the ongoing monitoring of Qantas international capacity in line with forecast demand and market conditions. To ensure we have the ‘right aircraft on the right route’ you will develop and recommend adjustments to the Qantas international network, including timing and capacity, to maximise profitability and/or minimise cost.

Advertised position:
SEEK - Route Strategy Analyst Job in Sydney (http://www.seek.com.au/job/25455224)

And another;
SEEK - International Scheduling Analyst Job in Sydney (http://www.seek.com.au/job/25455226)

[hotnhigh]

recommend adjustments to the Qantas international network, including timing and capacity, to maximise profitability and/or minimise cost

Isn't it easier to say shrinking to grow?

Interesting the job description doesn't mention the word growth.
Another win for HR!

[RequestPidgeons]

..................

[Berealgetreal]

Yeah I've found the QF flight attendants: welcoming, engaged, young and attractive.

[dizzylizzy]

Doesn't mention the word growth? Wtf? It has been made VERY clear that there will be NO growth in QI until 2016 and beyond.

[Captain Gidday]

There has been no growth in QF International since about 1978.

[ferris]

I mentioned this a few months back, but didn't get much traction.

My recent experience continues to show very low loads on the MEL-DXB-MEL, legs (last one was 35%). However, the DXB-LHR-DXB legs are chockers. That would indicate Qf ARE picking up quite a lot of pax from EK. Whether this is economically viable.....?

[moa999]

There has been no growth in QF International since about 1978.

On what basis?
Number of segments flown
Number of aircraft
Number of routes/ destinations
Number of pax carried
Available pax kilometres.

I suspect some of those have gone down, but others have increased.

[moa999]

My recent experience continues to show very low loads on the MEL-DXB-MEL, legs (last one was 35%). However, the DXB-LHR-DXB legs are chockers. That would indicate Qf ARE picking up quite a lot of pax from EK. Whether this is economically viable.....?

Assume it must be connecting traffic.
I certainly wouldn't otherwise be flying a route that departs at 0100 DXB and arrives before 0500 LHR

[hotnhigh]

MOA....
From qantas data book.
Qantas International pax

2003 Pax 9111000 Load factor 77.5
2009 7243000 81.3
2013 5765000 81.6

Qantas Domestic

2003 17700000 LF 79.8
2009 16379000 79.2
2013 16813000 77.6

Reference the qantas annual report, the short and long term incentive plans for senior executive doesn't require increasing passenger numbers.

[moa999]

2003 is very different to 1978....
given the growth of Jetstar

I believe 2003 also include the then NZ Domestic ops as part of International

[Romulus]

Not specifically on topic but closely aligned.

Had breakfast with a friend who is Ops Manager for a major travel booking company (primarily corporate focussed).

Apparently the QF reps are going berserk trying to drive sales. For this particular outfit who are a top tier QF reseller the share of international work that goes to QF is down to sub 20% of their total. Threats to remove the top tier status have been issued if they don't boost QF sales in both absolute terms and in terms of share of their overall sales made. The company boss doesn't particularly care, QF have cut their terms already and the long term utilisation of fuel surcharges to avoid paying commissions on full ticket charges has eroded any loyalty to QF from the sales force.

Plus customers have choice. Corporates are looking for better cost and value returns from their travel providers just as their customers are looking for better outcomes from them.

Cost is the nominated prime reason, variability of aircraft interior quality another. The A380 delay (and presumably also 787) is hurting here.

The line "Why pay a premium for Qantas when you can fly Emirates or Singapore for significantly less" encapsulates the position of many customers.

[low_earth_orbit]

Following on from comments above on the decline in QF Intl in terms of loads etc
...Here's a graph showing the rise of Jetstar and the decline of QF Intl in terms of numbers of passengers carried by operating segment within the Qantas 'group' (but excluding QantasLink) back to 2004/05. [Numbers from Qantas databook, financial reports etc.]

You can see the decline in QF Intl. QF Domestic is relatively static (despite a growing domestic market) and all Jetstar units show growth albeit from a zero base - helped along by the parent's balance sheet.

Depends where you sit in the Qantas Group as to how you feel about it!.:ugh::)

This is purely a pax number snapshot and doesn't show yield, profitability etc. The incentive plans for managers are probably not interested in pax numbers alone because airlines are a yield play - it's as much about the price that is paid for the ticket as the number of tickets sold - but in simple terms the more passengers you carry the better chance you have of turning a profit.

http://s22.postimg.org/v0eh0l18x/Pax_numbers_by_Operating_Segment.png

http://s22.postimg.org/v0eh0l18x/Pax_numbers_by_Operating_Segment.png

[hotnhigh]

The incentive plans for managers are probably not interested in pax numbers alone because airlines are a yield play
Qantas Slumps as Yields Drop to Decade Low Amid Virgin Fight - Bloomberg (http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-18/qantas-passenger-yield-to-drop-to-decade-low-amid-virgin-fight.html)
The decline would leave yields at the lowest level in records dating back to 2003, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Yep, there on a winner

[Eastwest Loco]

Qantas is its own worst enemy.

As of 01 November they are not paying us leeches on the butt of the industry commissions for bookings made for travel originating outside Australia.

In virtually all cases there are alternate carriers that are. Hence, they can go pound sand up their backside and we will book the alternate.

Romulus - I know the tactics that are used as your Corporate travel friend has experienced. All he has to say is if you pull back overide commission you can get rooted. They are all piss and wind.

We are not major at all but sell a good deal of rat and have sold many millions over the years but I was told as I have closed the shopfront and gone home based (due to Jetset taking nearly a thousand bucks a month in franchise fees and refusing to provide any advertising as in the contract) he made the statement that he doesn't make home calls. Hello?

Maybe I should adopt a new international carrier.

The QF reps are going zerko for good reason. The hierarchy are trying to cover for botched decisions. the via DXB model is fine for those who want to go point into Europe. Be amazed, but not everyone wants to do a break in journey in DXB. They want one stop and Asia as the break point as that is what they are used to. Hence MH TG and CX just for a start are getting a great deal of crossover traffic with full QF frantic flapper points and status credits on MH and CX.

Malaysia Airlines cut commission from other countries several years ago and guess what? They are paying again.

They realised they were being overlooked and reinstated to stem the loss of revenue. SQ is yet to learn, but are losing potentially billions worldwide as they are just not offered.

My 2 bobs worth -we are now Knight Flight and the emails and phones are the same with thanks to the PPRuNers who have been kind enough to book with me.

Best all

EWL

[boocs]

Hats off and good luck to you EWL!! :ok:

b.

[Eastwest Loco]

Thanks boocs

We had to do something or simply shut down. If I did that the Devonport RSL would put on more staff and Mrs Loco would divorce me.

Best regards

EWL

[indamiddle]

All the best EWL with the rebranded business.
As far as loads go on qf9 it probably is only fair if we compare it with emirates 405 loads. Maybe they are having same issues as the qf9

[Freehills]

Latest BITRE market share figures:

Share of passengers carried:
Qantas: 16.6%,-0.5 ppt;
Emirates: 9.1%, +1.0 ppts;
Singapore Airlines: 8.7%, +0.1 ppt;
Virgin Australia: 8.5%, -0.2 ppt;
Air New Zealand: 7.7%, -0.5 ppt;
Jetstar: 7.4%, -1.3 ppt;
Cathay Pacific: 4.6%, -0.3 ppt;
Malaysia Airlines: 4.2%, +0.7 ppt;
AirAsia X: 3.4%, +0.6 ppt;
Thai Airways: 3.3%, -0.2 ppt

So I make that a 1.8% loss for the QF group...

[Buckshot]

Eastwest Loco check your PMs

[BD1959]

EWL: Hence MH TG and CX just for a start are getting a great deal of crossover traffic with full QF frantic flapper points and status credits on MH and CX.

MH: Status Credits, yes, but only in earning classes - and those classes only earn 25-75% of the standard rate where the route competes with the Roo (like QF9), and no cabin bonus in the premium seats. From the outside (SLF) it looks like the Roo is being vindictive over the whole RedQ fiasco, didn't the Roo sponsor MH into OW?

Regards,

BD

[tomcat264]

QF code sharing with EK is on the cards. Give it 5 years & I can see it being all EK

[stiffwing]

5 years Tomcat?
I see it being 105 weeks.....

[BD1959]

QF are already code sharing with EK, just on one day looking at MEL/points-beyond-DXB various sector options include ....

QF8405 = EK405 MEL-SIN-DXB
QF8407 = EK407 MEL-DXB
QF8409 = EK409 MEL-KUL-DXB
QF8011 = EK11 DXB-LGW
QF8355 = EK355 SIN-DXB

If only someone had been smart enough to arrange a Revenue Sharing scheme similar to the BA JSA.

Regards,

BD

[SOPS]

You should see all the code shares out of Dubai every day.

[Bazzamundi]

I don't think you can just ring up and tell people you can shift their freight today as our loads are low, but sorry we couldn't do it last week.

You generally would be locked into contracts to provide X amount of freight capacity a service / week. When full of pax, weights mean there is not too much capacity for freight on the 380 Mel/Dxb direct.

There would be a small market for short term freight, but not enough to justify the 200+ tonnes of fuel for a half empty load.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Why would Qantas want to carry freight on the 9 when the loads are down? I am convinced, that is 100% after recent dealings, that they will do anything to look and be unprofitable.