SAR Bristow Holland to go?

[Hompy]

Any truth in the rumour that the Bristow Jigsaw SAR heli bases in Holland are to close? Who's taking over?

[QSD]

NH90??
Looks like they shift to 5th gear .

[Hompy]

What is a 'safety case' apart from an item of luggage useful for transporting important documents?

[QSD]

http://www.nogepa.nl/Portals/12/nogepa/brief%20SAR.pdf

:confused:

[bigglesbutler]

Using a translation website for those of us not of Dutch descent.
Subject: SAR helicopter dust EXTREMELY URGENT



Dear Ms. Schultz van Haegen,

Please, we ask again your urgent attention to adequate Search and Rescue (SAR)
facilities to guarantee by the Government after 1 January 2014 and thereby the safety of
people in the North Sea, including many offshore workers, unnecessarily.

Needless to say I report that it should comply with the national and international
agreed standard that a SAR helicopter 90 minutes after alerting within the entire
area of responsibility of the Coast Guard must be able to present at least 16 persons
to lift out of the water and then off to put on a safe location (source: note "Maritime
Emergency aid ", maritime and aeronautic emergency aid on the North Sea 2010-2015, Ministry of transport
and Water Management dated december 2010).

From the middle of last year we have been talking to your Ministry on this issue. In our letter of
26 June 2013, we have formally reported that the NOGEPA SAR contract with Bristow at 31 december
2013 will expire and no more (again) again may be extended because of the State in which
the old S61 helicopters after ten years. I log on to this that this contract now
Indeed, in the formal sense has been cancelled.

Over the past decade, all costs for the implementation of this voluntary NOGEPA
Government undertaken (order of size 100 million euro). NOGEPA has offered this
costs are not (partly) on the Government there to stories as long as they themselves will also from 1 January
2014, when our contract will be terminated, proper SAR service is available.

To this end, we have, in collaboration with Mr Van Duyvendijk (President KNRM), peat (Director
Coast Guard), Bauer (Schout at night Defense), constructive discussions with Mr. Jacobs of your
Ministry to come to a rounded business case for the hiring of two medium size SAR
helicopters by the Government from 1 January 2014.

This business case was completed to everyone's satisfaction for more than half a year ago, therefore on a
such time that the Government could start the competitive bidding process in a timely manner. However, to date,
your Ministry working to reach agreement on the internal distribution of costs (estimated at
about 8 million per year) and the process, in our view, serious and unnecessary delay,
Despite multiple direct consultation with stakeholders mentioned ministers repeatedly camp,
Opstelten, Hennis-Plasschaert and yourself.

The possible and very undesirable consequence might be that after January 1, 2014 no adequate SAR
supply cannot be guaranteed by the Government, whereby also the security of our colleagues
offshore is no longer guaranteed. As a result, we would be forced, partly under pressure from the
Inspector General of SodM (State supervision of mines), to our gas production at sea
discontinued.

Obviously, this will have very serious consequences both in terms of the
security of supply, financial as well as employment. That is why we are asking you
as responsible Minister personally to intervene directly and take action to achieve
supply adequate SAR per 1 January 2014.

We have done a number of specific proposals as NOGEPA to Mr J. This includes
the contact we have established between Mr. Jacobs and Bristow, by the implementation of a
Bristow suggested integrated UK/NL SAR solution, which are still per 1 January next year would
can be entered, as possible. This solution is up for grabs, but requires
immediate action.

In our view, we have done everything to your Ministry to enable this problem on a
constructive way to resolve in a timely manner and to everyone's satisfaction. We want to hear from you how you
an adequate SAR service by 1 January 2014 so that we guarantee this goes by november 2013
to our members and their colleagues offshore, their works councils, their shareholders and our
supervisor State supervision of mines can communicate.

[Hompy]

Anybody know how it went, who is doing the SAR next year?

[QSD]

From the dutch Coastguardwebsite:

The NH-90 will be operational for SAR in 2014. In the mean time the SAR task is performed by the Agusta Bell 412 during daylight hours. During dark hours a private helicopter is standby for SAR and stationed on the Maasvlakte. This helicopter is a Eurocopter Dauphin (NHV)

[QSD]

They will probably be yellow.

[sunnywa]

16 persons picked up in a 365. Makes (min) of 18 on board. Like to see that!

[Adroight]

Knowing the yellow ones, they will get them in somehow and make the paperwork fit.

[Hompy]

Looking at the Dutch coastguard website the Bristow helicopter is mentioned at the bottom as a Nogepa SAR helicopter so it looks like they are still doing it. How long is that contract?

[EESDL]

Our Belgian friends will allocate their yellow Puma for the contract so, on paper at least, the capacity requirement is met - then turn up with a 365 and say larger bird went 'tech' on start ;-)

Ignore the above because I am not aware of the 'stop-cap' contract conditions - I was just being facetious.........
.......anyway, surely their FOM will be pre-occupied with past cycling team doping claims.......doh, at it again!

Stop it. This is a serious thread about a reported lack of credible SAR cover.

[Carbon Bootprint]

Posted today on the English version of the NOGEPA website (http://www.nogepa.nl/en-us/nieuws-detail/?newsitemid=166756352):

Today 20/12/2013 NOGEPA signed a contract with North Sea Helicopters Vlaanderen (NHV) for Search and Rescue (SAR) services. The contract entails provision of SAR services from 1/1/2014 and has a minimum duration of 6 months.

NHV will operate from Den Helder Airport with two AS365N (Dauphin) helicopters, supported by additional AS365N helicopters from the Botlek area. The helicopters are equipped with advanced navigation and search and rescue systems. In emergency situations, at least three helicopters can be operational simultaneously, providing the capacity to rescue crews operating in the Dutch continental shelf area.

The current contract with Bristow ends on 1 January 2014. The choice for NHV was made in close consultation with the Dutch Authorities, based on a combination of financial, health and safety and operational performance considerations.

[Banksman]

What a load rubbish health and safety and operational performance as NHV uk? Late and what health and safety rules as they go out of window :ugh:

[S76Heavy]

Money talks, B*ll**** walks...Got to admit the yellow boys do get the contracts. Fulfilling them, there's another chapter..

[Adroight]

Got to admit the yellow boys do get the contracts.

Peanuts and monkeys spring to mind.

[SkyStalker]

Hi Guys,

Have there been many jobs in the past from Den Helder that has required
an immediate of lift of such numbers? Just interested, many thanks.

SkyStalker

[Spanish Waltzer]

Now advertising for SAR pilots and swimmers on their website.

[Vie sans frontieres]

They must have crews and aircraft in place surely. How else can they sign a contract to provide SAR cover worthy of the name on 20th December with the intention of starting on 1st January? They must already have fully-trained crews, experienced in day and night time SAR in all weathers and all environments. Plus they must already have an aircraft capable of letting down safely at night overwater. It must all be in place already.

Can you tell that it's the season of goodwill?:hmm:

[S76Heavy]

VSF you must be joking. They cannot even perform a regular contract out of EHKD, and I have from several sources that their idea of SAR "cover" is not what you and me would expect.

However, it seems that NOGEPA have painted themselves in a corner and have decided that they are good enough; probably hoping for the best while the military are trying to get the NH90 operational for SAR.

This is a very bad move as it lowers the bar for safety. Chances are nothing will happen to show them up, thereby "proving" that they are good enough. So more will be done on the cheap.

Safety is important until it costs money. Cynical, moi? :ugh:

[Vie sans frontieres]

How will EASA permit them to provide SAR cover then?

[212man]

How will EASA permit them to provide SAR cover then?

EASA does not regulate SAR - it is an NAA responsibility (hence the UK CAA has CAP999).

[Vie sans frontieres]

Ok, NAA then. Still, you would think that someone in the continent's safety agency would be interested that for a task as potentially hazardous as SAR in all weathers by day and night which, as we've seen in the last few days can throw up monumental challenges, is going to be provided by someone who won the contract a week and a half before the start date. That's beyond belief. Considering the levels of regulation/red tape etc that civilian operators have to comply with in most fields of aviation, it does seem as though sometimes you're good to go with Search and Rescue if you can stick a hoist on the side of an aircraft. Come on EASA/NAA. Sort it out.

[Adroight]

Seems that NAA are the only people who don't know the way this company operate.

[Greeny9]

Lots of negative noise about NHV! Have any of you actually looked at the company or worked for them?

[kmax]

I know one thing for sure, the belgians working in Rotterdam they can hoist.
Every storm 24/7 for years already they go out to fly for the shipping pilots service.
They rescued 4 victims out a raft during storm in winter 2012.( Baltic Ace) :D

[Sumpor Stylee]

Whilst the outgoing operator attempt to ignore the rules and shoehorn Dutch registered paramedics into UKSAR jobs ahead of UK registered paramedics despite the qualifications not being so easily transferrable..... And they have been told but they clearly know better....:ugh:

[Vie sans frontieres]

K max

Are you the regulator who decided that the Belgians in Rotterdam 'can hoist' and from that and your reference to a rescue, are therefore the genuine SAR article? Please give details of the various configurations of day and night decks and wets that they have satisfied you with. What currency requirements do you set them? Which technique do they employ for a trapped deck at night?

If I've got it wrong and you're not the regulator then please don't make sweeping statements.

[finalchecksplease]

VSF

Just in case you don’t know NHV was started years ago by a group of (ex) Belgium Military SAR pilots & engineers with the help of a businessman so I think you will find they have the “know how” within the company . Also plenty of this SAR unit retirees have found employment with NHV over recent years.

BTW before you ask I don’t or have never worked for NHV, regards,

Finalchecksplease

[Vie sans frontieres]

I've got nothing against NHV although it seems as though some contributors may have. What I don't understand is how a contract can be awarded the week before Xmas to start the week after Xmas to provide SAR cover in the south east corner of one of the busiest seas on the planet. How the hell can the appropriate regulatory authority think that a week and a half is sufficient time to purchase, lease or convert aircraft, recruit and train experienced crews and kit aircraft out with the necessary items to provide the quality of SAR service that the North Sea merits?

[kmax]

Nope,
I have no ambition to convince someone that NHV can hoist.

Is NHV the best possible available option to start next week?:confused:
I do not know.

But if you tell me that they just attach a hoist :=

Can they hoist ?
Fact is they used the hoist since 1997 for shipping service, sar and windmills.
Before 1997 the founders used it during there military career BAF SAR S 61.

[SkyStalker]

Sumpor -
Re: your comments about Dutch Paramedics taking
jobs in UKSAR. Slightly misinformed I feel. While the
company in question may believe they can shoe-horn
Dutch Paramedics in to UKSAR, it would simply be illegal
for them to practise in the UK, unless they have a HCPC
registration. Plus, it is also a DfT requirement
that UK Winchmen to be HCPC registered or in training to be so.

Having converted a Paramedic qual from one European Country
to another, it's not a quick process, and not always possible.

[Hompy]

By 'outgoing operator' and 'company in question' you mean Bristow.... !?

I don't know if you guys talking about transferring international medical qualifications have been to a UK A&E recently, but it can't be too difficult a process!

[meanttobe]

NHV seem to be using oaklandsglobal recruitment to fill positions along with vacancy page on the NHV website.




We are looking for 6 x Rescue Swimmers to be based in Holland working on a 6 month contract. My client are offering a rotation of 1 week on, 2 weeks off.

Candidates must be qualified Rescue Swimmers with Search and Rescue experience. If ...you are interested in this exciting contract can you please confirm the following:-
What is your availability to start?
How many years experience as a Rescue Swimmer for Search and Rescue do you have?
Where are you currently based?

If you know anyone else with the required experience please feel free to pass on my details as we have 6 positions available

I look forward to hearing from you

Kind regards


Kathryn Sainsbury
Director



T: +44 (0)1892 576100
E: [email protected] ([email protected])
W: www.oaklandsglobal.co.uk (http://www.oaklandsglobal.co.uk/)

[Vie sans frontieres]

We are looking for 6 x Rescue Swimmers - to start two days ago.

[Rigging Pin]

Hmm..... 11 days to organise machines, pilots, rear crew, trianing etc...

Are all the operators out of Den Helder still flying with full Pax or are numbers limited?

Has anyone tried a simulated call-out to see if anyone shows up.... :ugh:

RP

[HarryMonk]

With the military almost cancelling the NH90 project for SAR, what is the future of SAR ops from Den Helder....

I thought the long term referred bidder would be announced soon... NHV? CHC&ANWB? Bristow?

Bristow seem to be collecting SAR contract each and everyday so why not this one too

[Rigging Pin]

Pretty quiet since the 5th....

My 2cents....
NHV are probably the cheapest but have they got the right machines for the job (4axis AP, Limited A/I etc.) .... Unlikely

Bristow might be a good choice if they don't price themselves out of the market...

CHC is busy enough without the 'hassle' of providing SAR
ANWB hardly have any experience in this field... Maybe team up with one of the other bidders... Like CHC or maybe Heli Holland if this would be allowed in the first place...

Let's hope the government have got it right this time!:rolleyes::hmm:

[NHV]

Rigging Pin,

Time will tell :rolleyes:

regarding the appropriate helicopters:
"Airbus Helicopters AS365N (4axis) Dauphins are currently used for the search and rescue missions. The Airbus Helicopters EC175 of which NHV ordered 16 will also be used to conduct SAR missions in the future.

experienced SAR pilots, winchmen and divers are already on the payroll :ok:

Search and Rescue (http://nhv.be/Whatwedo/sar.aspx)

[Rigging Pin]

NHV - Do all 365's on contract for SAR at the moment have a 4axis AP or are there just 2 in the fleet at the moment?

With regard to requirements published for the new SAR service I thought it mentioned the AC needs to be able to fly in limited icing conditions? 365 /175 certified?

Don't get me wrong.. I am not trying to make NHV look bad... Just interested to see what they have to offer...

From your previous comment I take it everyone is still in the dark about his tender?

RP

[kmax]

Which helicopter meets all the requirements :confused:
and remains within the hospitals helipads landingweight limits?? :hmm:

[Northernstar]

NHV,

What do you consider experienced winch men and divers? Colleagues of mine as former NHV employees weren't so complimentary in their description. As for winch operators experience, just training an engineer to do it is not exactly the modern way.:ugh:

[NHV]

Check finalcheckplease previous post :ok:

most divers, winchmen are ex French,Dutch navy,BAF 40SQ,RAF.

[nowherespecial]

Rumour around our place is that Bristow won this

[Rigging Pin]

From my side rumours confirm NHV is the preferred bidder.....

KMax - don't know which a/c would be suitable to meet all requirements but I do now some of the previous mentioned types don't live up to the required tender specifications at all.

RP

[nowherespecial]

I believe NHV are not expected to be compliant in their bid but 1st round went to them. Then BHL, then CHC.

[Rigging Pin]

How can anyone win 1st round if you are not compliant? I would have thought the Dutch government would have looked at pricing AND compliancy before they announced their preferred bidder.

I suppose in their eyes NHV is 'compliant' for the running SAR contract so why not for this new one also......

RP

[212man]

How can anyone win 1st round if you are not compliant?

It probably depends on "compliant with what?"

[nowherespecial]

RP and 212, you raise excellent questions.

I would answer by saying 'government procurement'

[kmax]

It looks like the Dutch Coast Guard will continue to work with NHV and there dolphins.
All rumors go that direction, official release is expected soon.

[Rigging Pin]

NHV with 365's... Ofcourse that is the perfect type to meet the tender requirements :ugh:

RP

[kmax]

That is what the Dutch seem to prefer.

[Rigging Pin]

If that is what they prefer, why ask for limited icing clearance and cat A performance etc.
I take it being 30% cheaper then the competition bidding with compliant A/c had nothing to do with this decission :yuk:

RP

[kmax]

yes of course, price is an important element.
Someone has to pay the bill.
In times of recession, people look for affordable possibilities.
This often leads not to most modern equipped aircraft because they can or are not willing pay for it.

[Rigging Pin]

Its fine to use less modern helicopters without the high tech equipment if that is what you asked for.

My point is: It's not right to award a contract to the cheapest bidder if they don't meet the specs laid down in the tender requirements cause the bid is not comparable to other bidders tendering with an aircraft which does meet the specs required....

RP

[nowherespecial]

Non compliant but won it anyway. Bristows must be seething. I was kind of right except I expected more of the Dutch Government. My mistake.

[NHV]

NHV renewed the contract, for full SAR coverage based from Den Helder and Rotterdam, will commence on July 1, 2015 for an initial duration of 5 years with a possible extension of two times 1 year.

[Victorbiz]

Congrats! :ok:

[Phone Wind]

So a company operating helicopters which are non-compliant with a tender process win a contract on the basis of price (and/or politics :yuk:) and everyone thinks this is ok? :confused: If that's the case, why not just say in the tender document that companies tendering may also bid on a price basis with non-compliant helicopters until it's decided whether they want a proper fit-for-purpose, modern SAR service or a 20th century one? It strikes me that there have been some under-the-carpet dealings going on here to make sure that the odds were loaded against other bidders. I have no problem with NHV winning it as I have many friends working for that company, but at least it should be seen to have won it through a transparent process.

Compare this with the UK SAR using state-of-the art SAR aircraft and one wonders why the Netherlands, a country at the forefront of adopting modern technology would want to go for an inferior service (and note, I did not say from an inferior company - I have nothing at all against NHV and I think they've done well to grow as fast as they have in recent years, especially in their bids against bloated corporations like Bristow and CHC in West Africa :ok: ).

[Jet Ranger]

PW,

you think that the EC175 is not a modern technology, or?

JR

[Rigging Pin]

175 might be modern but when will it enter service and be approved for SAR operations? And when will the limited icing clearance be approved... if it will ever get one in the first place.


Oh and don't forget - The aircraft used must meet all the requirements laid down in the tender documents per the start of the contract.....


Unbelievable


RP

[Hompy]

The harsh reality is that if you look closely at any bid process you will find 'non compliance', dirty dealing, prejudice, preconception and, let us not beat around the bush.....unfairness. To think otherwise, in today's business climate, or yesterday's for that matter, is a little naive at best. You don't have to look very far to see a few very big helicopter contracts that will go over budget or have gone over budget and were always going to be 'non compliant'. As long as you know you put your best effort into a bid and didn't just think of it as a side show, there is no more that can be done. I would not be surprised that NHV being a Belgian firm and speaking a similar language to the customer would have given them an advantage over the Canadian or American firms, unless they had created a native speaking bid team. Is that fair? Who knows, but it must play a part. Somebody had to make a decision and we are all human, even the non English speaking ones!

[JulieAndrews]

I hope not to be flying in the Dutch FIR this winter.........

[Rigging Pin]

:=

Kustwachthelikopters voldoen niet aan reddingseisen - nrc.nl (http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/09/26/kustwachthelikopters-voldoen-niet-aan-reddingseisen/)

I think we all knew this from the start :ugh:
But will there be any change? Doubt it....

RP

[heli1]

....and in English?!:8

[Self loading bear]

Torque Stripe,

Thank you, i was half way translating.
You have translated and condensed the second (background) article from the same newspaper not the shorter headline as linked by Rigging pin.

At 2. You have read correctly.
At 3. The 4-axis helicopter would have to be ex-LN-OCO which would be stationed at Den Helder after maintenance see link Den Helder Airport of 10 april 2014.
[URL="http://www.denhelderairport.nl/nieuws/vreemde-vogels/as365n-dauphin-ln-oco"LN-OCO[/URL]

At 5. I remember reading the tender questions and clarifications that it was asked if in the case multiple aircraft were used to reach 16 survivor capacity if they could be spread between Den Helder and Rotterdam. The answer was Yes as long as time over target could be met.
NHV operates the same type to ferry pilots out to ships from Rotterdam. It makes sense to use one aircraft as spare/second for both services.
As long as you can pull it off!

At 6. The article also states that the contract with the supplier of the medic has now been changed. 1 on duty and 2nd on call.
I hope on call in Rotterdam

[minigundiplomat]

So having bid EC175, how long will NHV be allowed to operate Dauphins on contract for, as they are doing currently?

[nowherespecial]

MGD raises a good point. CHC and BRS seem to have bid compliantly (and competitively with each other) and been spanked for it while NHV have bid non compliantly and won.

The rumour I hear is that following a meeting with Dutch ministry officials last year, NHV's bid was precisely 1 EUR under the maximum budget.

Makes you wonder if the Dutch can afford full state sponsored SAR?

[Evil Twin]

"The rumour I hear is that following a meeting with Dutch ministry officials last year, NHV's bid was precisely 1 EUR under the maximum budget."

That's not exactly competetive tendering then is it? The local team get the inside news on the available budget while Johnny foreigner doesn't, fairly blatant nationalism wouldn't you say.

[HeliHenri]

.
Just a small remark before the topic diverts in the dark side, Netherlands and Belgium are two differents countries.
.

[Variable Load]

"The rumour I hear is that following a meeting with Dutch ministry officials last year, NHV's bid was precisely 1 EUR under the maximum budget."

That's not exactly competetive tendering then is it?

Agreed, someone in NHV was given inside information. The whole thing was a farce, as is the 'final' product.

[Variable Load]

Torquestripe, are you able to post a link to the article you are referring to. The newspaper article link above does not make mention of any initial meetings.