IMC Teaching Questions

[noblues]

Hi,

Just a few IMC course questions ...

1) Are we teaching students to add the 50ft altimeter error to published minima? (in addition to the 200ft for IMC).

2) Are students required to demonstrate a precision and non precision approach on test? (The CAA form seems to indicate only one approach).

3) On test at what point is the student required to put the fogels/hood on after takeoff?

4) What height is the bad weather circuit taught, and is this normally tested by breaking off at minima from an approach?

5) In the 'old days' NDB + VOR approaches we used to teach to descend to MDH ASAP from the final approach fix and not follow the published advisory profile. In the airline world we always follow the advisory decent profile to MDH ... which is the preferred method for the IMC rating?

6) Flap settings on say a PA28 to fly an ILS? Fully configured?

7) QNH or QFE?

Many thanks for any info!

[MrAverage]

noblues!

Get ready for many different opinions!

[Ex Oggie]

Didn't they teach you this on your FI/IRI course??? :ugh:

[noblues]

Ex Oggie - I did that 26yrs ago ...

I haven't done a lot of IMC teaching recently so want to know what the current trends are ...

Their are various ways of skinning a cat!

[RTN11]

I'd suggest you discuss these with the school/examiner you're planning to use, but my two cents:

1) Are we teaching students to add the 50ft altimeter error to published minima? (in addition to the 200ft for IMC).
Add 200 + 50 for the test, but in training nothing wrong with going down to proper minima or below with the screens up, just for training.

2) Are students required to demonstrate a precision and non precision approach on test? (The CAA form seems to indicate only one approach).
One approach only, if you sign off an approach in their logbook that you observed to be satisfactory. (unless that's changed, I haven't done an IMC since early this year)

3) On test at what point is the student required to put the fogels/hood on after takeoff?
Usually when comfortable, imagine a typical day when you would genuinely take a single engine into IMC, something like passing 1000' AGL seems reasonable.

4) What height is the bad weather circuit taught, and is this normally tested by breaking off at minima from an approach?
This will vary on local procedures, but 600' seems fairly standard, I've taught some at 400' though.

5) In the 'old days' NDB + VOR approaches we used to teach to descend to MDH ASAP from the final approach fix and not follow the published advisory profile. In the airline world we always follow the advisory decent profile to MDH ... which is the preferred method for the IMC rating?
Follow the procedure airline style, level off at MDA, go around when you hit the missed approach point.

6) Flap settings on say a PA28 to fly an ILS? Fully configured?
Two stages of flap help you keep the speed up, which makes a 3 degree slope easier, and helps fit in with other traffic at a busy training field.

7) QNH or QFE?
Always QNH.

[Cobalt]

Pretty much as above, but with one modification:

Flying the ILS clean in the PA28 makes it easier to intercept the glide slope (no balloon) and, more importantly, reduces the workload on go-around. This makes it simpler and safer, especially for pilots who won't be ultra-current when they will use the rating. Speed control on the ILS clean in a PA28 is not a problem.

Then configure to taste when visual - no runway with an ILS will be too short for a flapless landing, though.

[nick14]

Surely the altimeter correction is variant specific?

What does the POH say?

[Cobalt]

Not many POHs have altimeter corrections. Piper (PAS28(R), PA32R) do not have anything, some (SR22, CO40) have statements in the POH that this is negligible.

I have no idea who invented the 50ft add-on that appears to be used universally in flight Britain. I have been told that there is a certification requirement to include a correction table if the error exceeds 50ft so in the absence of any information you should assume 50ft, but reading the FAR 23 I have not been able to find it.

The cynical me believes that this was invented to make the IR test easier to pass. Ultimately, the flying order book / operations manual / training manual of the school will decide what to use in training, if it is done at an ATO.

Personally, I add exactly zero for my own flying.

[RTN11]

It was many years ago now, that I did my IR, but I'm sure the beech duchess POH had something about a 50' correction.

Personally, I add exactly zero for my own flying.

Obviously that's what we all do, but the OP is asking specifically about test passing, which is of course a different world :}

[Cobalt]

If I had a POH that said 50' correction, I would apply that...

[madlandrover]

AIP AD 1.1 refers, para 2.6.

[nick14]

A bad weather circuit should be flown at circling minima in my opinion which is normally around the figures suggested as that will keep you safely separated from obstacles.

Also airlines haven't used the dive and drive technique for a few years and most examiners now will ask how you want to fly the NPA. CDFA is actually easier when you setup the descent properly. Diving down opens the candidate up to many power changes and increases the threat of busting the minimum heights.

[IrishJason]

Just as above on the ils approach in a piper I (student at the time ) much prefer it clean as less work on go around but I have been through all stages when been though

[noblues]

Thanks for the info chaps .... much appreciated.

In the airlines we were adding 50ft for a long time, but stopped doing that a few years ago.

[Whopity]

The origin of the 50 feet related to aircraft where no PEC was stated in the FM because the calibration had never been completed.

[Cobalt]

How can you tell in which aircraft the calibration was never completed?