FAA to permit electronic devices during all flight phases

[J.L.Seagull]

FAA to permit smartphone and ebook reader usage during takeoff and landing | ExtremeTech (http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/167210-faa-to-permit-smartphone-and-ebook-reader-usage-during-takeoff-and-landing)

[MCDU2]

It's never really been about the devices themselves. It's about getting the end user to look up and pay attention to the safety demo. To see what happens when people ignore the safety demo then go into YouTube and see the "Hudson" evacuation. Count how many life jackets were inflated before the idiot left the cabin for a start. Then count the idiots jumping off a perfectly good floating wing into the icy waters only to get a brainwave and clamber back on.

One minute taken to listen to the safety brief and look around for your nearest exit shouldn't be that hard.

[racedo]

Oh great....................is nowhere safe from idiots wishing to constantly be it touch with other inane idiots on farcebook.......

[ohnutsiforgot]

WE JUST LANDED
WE'RE TAXIING IN
WE'RE AT THE GATE
PEOPLE ARE GETTING THEIR LUGGAGE OUT
I'M COMING UP THE RAMP
I DON'T SEE YOU YET

PLease God make me rich so I can have a Citation-X

[MaxReheat]

Interesting that the good old UK CAA only last week pushed out a(nother) reminder that the use of portable electronic equipment should be switched off during take-off and landing as per the same regs they've had in force for what seems like ages.

Ever responsive to change (:=) I wonder how long it will take the Belgrano to turn around policy?

[Max Angle]

Many years I hope.

[Standby Scum]

It was the inability of the phone tower system to keep track and invoice the "ultra-fast" moving mobile phones that brought about the claims that phones effect aircraft safety etc. The WW2 John Cunningham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cunningham_(RAF_officer)) carrots at night propaganda is still working today.

[Hydromet]

Down her, until now it's been illegal to block mobile phone calls (on the ground), but the law has just been changed to allow a trial of blocking in prisons. This led to a discussion on radio of mobile phones in aircraft. Most people were happy with the ban and would like to see it enforced, but a couple of pilots rang in admitting that they always left theirs on.

I can see it's important for pax to be attentive during the demo, but I'd like to think that the crew is as well.

[Tordan]

So, pre cell phones everybody listened attentively to the safety demonstrations and all evacuations were performed without a hitch and with the greatest expertise? Please, some people will always neglect those briefings just as some will always pay attention. I totally agree that having access to distracting devices is, well, distracting during those demonstrations, but what about books, magazines or just conversations with the fella next to you? Why not put the safety folder on the seat in front of the pax so that they always see it? Subconsciously drilling what to do when the **** hits the fan.

I hate being exposed to constant conversations that sometimes should be done privately just as much as the next one, but that´s how our society looks like now. Earplugs, headphones with audiobook or music usually work for me. At least in airplanes one usually isn´t exposed to flocks of kids with boom boxes. Come to think of it, I think I prefer boom boxes over the current trend of holding up a cell phone and playing music with horrendous speaker quality. :=

[Piltdown Man]

The FAA are to be applauded for moving ahead with this relaxation. I do not have problem with electronic non-transmitting devices nor those that operate quietly. However, my airline says that these things shall turned off whenever the seat belt sign is turned on, so that's my company line and I stick with it. But the reasons for doing so are lost in the mists of time, if they ever existed in the first place. Some say it's to create an environment so you can get a person's full attention, others say it's so the passengers will listen to the (old fashioned and rather pointless) "Safety Briefing."

What the industry really needs is research into the modern person and how we should go about delivering some snippets of quite important information which may save their lives. It is patently clear that we are not doing a good job with real people when you look at clips of recent evacuations - Jet2 @ GLA, the Cactus in the Hudson, BA @ LHR, UTair @ VKO etc... This is not the result of mobile phones, tablets or laptops - just poor and/or irrelevant message delivery and dreadful handling of passengers goods following an incident.

As an industry we can and should do better.

[ExSp33db1rd]

It was almost worth taking a flight just to get some respite from the bl**dy things, now even that safe haven is being taken away from us.

[Interested Passenger]

maybe they find the footage on mobile phones useful when investigating an incident:ok:

[alexbrett]

Something to note from reading the article is they're not relaxing the rules on using any form of radio, i.e. people still won't be allowed to make mobile calls in the air and will need to put phones in flight mode etc, this is just about not having to actually power the devices off during takeoff and landing.

[Jazz Hands]

Count how many life jackets were inflated before the idiot left the cabin for a start


"Idiot"? :ugh:

[oliver2002]

A significant portion of the pax on the ET 767 in the comores inflated their lifevests in the cabin and perished as a result. No electronic devices around then. :ugh:

[Memetic]

While i think this is a step forward there will still be an issue around ensuring Wi-Fi and GSM is switched off on e-readers, tablets and laptops to meet the no transmitting requirement.

For GSM it should possible to put a femto cell or two in the aircraft, force the phones to low power transmission once ground signals are relatively weaker and send them text or cell broadcast messages to tell the owners to switch them to flight mode.

[DozyWannabe]

Oh great....................is nowhere safe from idiots wishing to constantly be it touch with other inane idiots on farcebook.......

RT*A:

Though reading e-books, watching movies, and listening to music or podcasts are deemed safe enough to continue during takeoff and landing, the prohibition on any transmission of signals is expected to stay in place. This means that texting, phonecalls, and even the use of WiFi will remain taboo.

"Aircraft mode" isn't going anywhere yet.

[Ka6crpe]

Most pax already have electronic equipment that runs all the time and isn't switched off during take-off and landing. Does anyone still wear a wrist watch that isn't electronic? How many have watches that are GPS equiped? How do you turn one off?

[EastMids]

Count how many life jackets were inflated before the idiot left the cabin for a start

Idiot? :eek: Well I don't know about US Airways, but I flew five United Airlines flights last week and I listened to the safety brief every time. Without exception in the context of a water landing the recorded brief played on the IFE / PA said "inflate your life jacket just BEFORE exiting the cabin". Maybe more folks listen to the safety brief than you think!

[Ian W]

Idiot? :eek: Well I don't know about US Airways, but I flew five United Airlines flights last week and I listened to the safety brief every time. Without exception in the context of a water landing the recorded brief played on the IFE / PA said "inflate your life jacket just BEFORE exiting the cabin". Maybe more folks listen to the safety brief than you think!

Most of these safety briefings can now be found on YouTube - I haven't been given/heard one that tells pax not to take their bags with them on evacuation.

[racedo]

RT*A:

I did and the plethora of airlines wishing to introduce wifi also draw my ire.

[DozyWannabe]

Fair enough, but the article wasn't about the possible introduction of Wi-Fi. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of people who seem to spend every available moment on their phones and tablets (and this is a dyed-in-the-wool techie talking!).

[HammerHome]

If they do introduce WiFi, then you could mandate that a passenger has to watch a safety video embedded in the sign-in page before being able to progress beyond it.

[drivez]

This is a question that has always eluded me, the safety aspect of devices like e readers and music players in a flight safe mode not being allowed to stay on because of "safety issues" yet we just put the EFB to flight safe mode? Having said that I understand the point that if we make people turn them off its one less distraction, added that people with headphones in could also miss important safety announcements or CC instructions.

Must admit it is very annoying though when someone has their phone on and I can hear the interference over the radio. Even more embarrassing though when it's one of the FD, right after cursing out the person defying the blanket ban. ;)

[J.O.]

Everyone is so focused on possible effects of EM emissions that we seem to be forgetting what is quickly becoming the real elephant in the room when it comes to PEDs on board aircraft.

Camcorder battery causes fire aboard jet flight headed to St. Louis : Stltoday (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001s_K0RyHq3xlcJC_oqk-jpq1U6pOkjo81YqUoijQl8Az_U9SeERcDK_P4LcGRABcPmfCfKW7Y8AP-CekYgM8uE--f5YIPD8P8w-9VDL15_0k2OYPvSNNhBqCb2xh50mMFEQHTlamLcrYoJTwWXlF7bEIonsxEyx yRxacbpsYpCFIhJPgU07FjdYa8asLHXfjjL3SpTQSGtLdsxr31ASxMSD_HuO cAfpIq2NqQV9otb2XQJTr65opxsNDim9CPZiRzYgv0ok_O7fW9CX9a0OL4W_ xNifWSgNUqlR6NJE0mX00=)

The increasing demand for after-market batteries bought on line from questionable sources is a disaster waiting to happen (unless you fly cargo, where it's already happening with frightening frequency).

[Una Due Tfc]

You make a very good point J.O. , I remember reading an incident report in work a year or 2 ago about a passenger 777 of a certain high profile middle east carrier having a fire in the hold shortly after take off in China, caused by a baggage handler dropping a suitcase with a laptop in it.

[PURPLE PITOT]

A friend of mine likes to use his own phone to do a bluetooth search just before push back. Then makes a nice p.a. announcing the names of those who have "forgotten" to switch off:ok:

[Teldorserious]

At issue was their insistence that the devices interfered with avionics. They lied. Repeatedly. Insistested on it. Provided false statistics and evidence.

Why am I not suprised that this moral transgression hasn't been noticed on a forum of airline pilots?

[mixduptransistor]

It's never really been about the devices themselves. It's about getting the end user to look up and pay attention to the safety demo. To see what happens when people ignore the safety demo then go into YouTube and see the "Hudson" evacuation. Count how many life jackets were inflated before the idiot left the cabin for a start. Then count the idiots jumping off a perfectly good floating wing into the icy waters only to get a brainwave and clamber back on.

One minute taken to listen to the safety brief and look around for your nearest exit shouldn't be that hard.

A few things:

1. I've never heard a safety briefing say anything about when or when not to jump into the water
2. I'm glad that the safety rule, since it is more about passengers paying attention/flying objects/any other irrational reason usually cited also applies to books, newspapers, etc.

[SFI145]

It's never really been about the devices themselves. It's about getting the end user to look up and pay attention to the safety demo. To see what happens when people ignore the safety demo then go into YouTube and see the "Hudson" evacuation. Count how many life jackets were inflated before the idiot left the cabin for a start. Then count the idiots jumping off a perfectly good floating wing into the icy waters only to get a brainwave and clamber back on.

One minute taken to listen to the safety brief and look around for your nearest exit shouldn't be that hard.

Yes what happens is that all aboard survived in probably the most successful unplanned ditching of all time.

[cyflyer]

As far as I'm concerned, and something that has been omitted from this discussion, is the anti-social aspect of this matter, the way electronic devices affect others around the user in close quarters enviroment of an airliner. Can you imagine sitting next/behind/infront to someone who won't stop yakking on the telephone throughout the flight ???????? You'd want to rip out of his/her hand and ram it down his/her throat. Imagine more than one person around you doing that, then imagine them doing that during a night flight when you are trying to sleep ! Or the moron thats hogging the toilets because he's busy having a telephone converstion while on the john. Or someone who insists on listening to their own phone provided music aloud without earphones. No, these devises should remain banned if not for the safety aspect, then for this very important social aspect.

[mixduptransistor]

As far as I'm concerned, and something that has been omitted from this discussion, is the anti-social aspect of this matter, the way electronic devices affect others around the user in close quarters enviroment of an airliner. Can you imagine sitting next/behind/infront to someone who won't stop yakking on the telephone throughout the flight ???????? You'd want to rip out of his/her hand and ram it down his/her throat. Imagine more than one person around you doing that, then imagine them doing that during a night flight when you are trying to sleep ! Or the moron thats hogging the toilets because he's busy having a telephone converstion while on the john. Or someone who insists on listening to their own phone provided music aloud without earphones. No, these devises should remain banned if not for the safety aspect, then for this very important social aspect.

I agree, telephony should be restricted. I don't see that as the FAA's place, though, and should be left up to the airlines. The FAA should only restrict things for valid safety reasons. Remember that planes used to have air phones (and I assume a few probably still do?) Maybe they could put a femtocell on the plane and charge a premium for in-flight calls.

And, it's possible to use electronic devices without being a jerk, so blanket "you can't use something that looks like a phone or makes voice calls" ban isn't fair to everyone else, especially since these days anything with internet connectivity can make a voice call.

[M-ONGO]

Can you imagine sitting next/behind/infront to someone who won't stop yakking on the telephone throughout the flight ???????? You'd want to rip out of his/her hand and ram it down his/her throat. Imagine more than one person around you doing that, then imagine them doing that during a night flight when you are trying to sleep !

You very well may be the only Cypriot with an anti phone attitude then. Most of your countrymen carry at least two of them. How many times have you flown on CY and noticed pax using cellphones during taxi?

[ExSp33db1rd]

The Boeing 707 had a flux-gate compass sensor positioned in the fuselage behind the trim of each of the First Class cabin luggage racks ( port and starboard ) - can't remember why now, but they did. ( I think because electric devices affected them, and although placing them far out on the wing was the optimum position, the flexing of the wing in turbulence was also a problem, so they were brought inboard, but away from the flight deck and the electronics bay. )

On the front lip of the rack was an obvious stripe, about 18" long, with the sign - " Place nothing here ".

One day the Captain was having compass problems and asked me to go back into the cabin and check that nothing was near the compass gadgets in the hatracks.

One First Class pax. had placed one of those large, reel to reel, Grundig tape recorders in the exact position that was prohibited, and it transpired that the permanent magnet in the large, built in, loudspeaker was the culprit.

I asked him what part of "Place nothing here" he didn't understand ? and took it away for the rest of the flight.

Life was easier on freighters, I didn't get paid to be nice to morons.

[cyflyer]

You very well may be the only Cypriot with an anti phone attitude then lol, yes M-ONGO, possibly so.

How many times have you flown on CY and noticed pax using cellphones during taxi? I haven't flown CY for many years, but I have no doubt that what you say happens, probably not just on CY though, which is the essence of the ongoing discussion. Along the lines of your observation however, something on a similar scale of stupidity that made an impression on me, last month flying Ryan from Stansted and landing at Paphos, just vacated the runway, I hear the one of the cabin crew over the speakers "please remain in your seats while we are taxying !" I turn around behind me to see a group of about four people (yes, Cypriots), standing in the aisle chatting , phones in hand, attempting to retrieve baggage. Before I could finish thinking to myself "what a bunch of morons", the steward came running up the aisle from the front and screamed at them to get back in their seats.
Incidents like that, telephones, etc, boil down to one thing. Discipline, and the total lack of it with the travelling public. Flying is a disciplined enviroment, or should be, for the sake of safety, the opposite being chaos, which we do not want in an aircraft. If people cannot discipline themselves to abstain from using the telephone, and obeying crew instructions in those few moments of landing and TO, then it is a very sad state of affairs. If CC have to be rude and abrubt to offending passengers then so be it, because thats what many of them deserve.

[ExSp33db1rd]

I turn around behind me to see a group of about four people ..........., standing in the aisle chatting , Wasn't it an AVRO Tudor, landing at Cardiff that crashed when the steward announced that they were landing, so all the pax got up an walked to the rear door to be first off ! They were, in wooden boxes.

Can't blame cellphones for stupidity - same syndrome that has most standing toes to the baggage belt ........ !!!

[Fly3]

I think the greatest danger in this policy is the prospect of countless electronic devises flying around the cabin during a crash landing inflicting untold damage on passengers.

[Aluminium shuffler]

I find it a little disappointing that someone would post incorrect information to support rule breaking.

For what it's worth, I used to routinely see LOC oscillations on an middle-generation of a very common medium twin-jet, as well as hear the "digga-dig" on the radios, which still occurs on the newer generation. I also had a few FMC failures and one auto-pilot malfunction (continued rolling on the first turn and was disconnected at 45deg AOB), all with an accompanying "digga-dig" on the radio. Might be coincidence, but I find that unlikely.

Newer aircraft are certainly shielded, and I haven't observed any malfunctions on them, just the comms interference, but there are still plenty of the older aircraft around, even in Western legacy airlines, and you can't expect pax to differentiate when their devices may or may not cause a problem.

[DozyWannabe]

The increasing demand for after-market batteries bought on line from questionable sources is a disaster waiting to happen (unless you fly cargo, where it's already happening with frightening frequency).

A fair point, but surely that incident suggests that it's better to have such things in the cabin, where such problems can be spotted and put out before the fire spreads; than in the hold where to do so is a much less exact science.

Also, most of the consumer Li-Ion ignition problems have been caused by a combination of after-market batteries (although not always), and mismatched mains chargers. Smaller devices such as e-readers, tablets and smartphones can be charged from USB sockets, which draw a much lower voltage (+5v) and do not require stepdown transformers as with a mains charger.

[Ian W]

I find it a little disappointing that someone would post incorrect information to support rule breaking.

For what it's worth, I used to routinely see LOC oscillations on an middle-generation of a very common medium twin-jet, as well as hear the "digga-dig" on the radios, which still occurs on the newer generation. I also had a few FMC failures and one auto-pilot malfunction (continued rolling on the first turn and was disconnected at 45deg AOB), all with an accompanying "digga-dig" on the radio. Might be coincidence, but I find that unlikely.

Newer aircraft are certainly shielded, and I haven't observed any malfunctions on them, just the comms interference, but there are still plenty of the older aircraft around, even in Western legacy airlines, and you can't expect pax to differentiate when their devices may or may not cause a problem.

I presume that you raised a formal written report on each occurrence of the interference?

Just as with the fatigue/hours issues, one of the problems is that the regulators have is no evidence of any problems. Without that evidence what reason have they to create regulations? Currently, the only claimed reason appears to be interference on some older Honeywell displays when run in a test harness - not in the real aircraft.

If problems are such a regular occurrence _and_ they were reported each time then the regulators have a lot more information to use when creating or justifying regulations.

[Lone_Ranger]

Transmit the safety briefing to the sheeple's phones/tablets, complete with really crap modern pop music and an intoduction by Simon Cowbell?...they might actually watch it then

[Aluminium shuffler]

Ian W,

No, I didn't report it because I was just the FO and accepted that it was the Captains's decision, and also figured that since the LOC deviations would occur every time the COM interference was heard on that older a/c model (a fairly large fleet), that it was already known about. That was backed up by the still existing ban on portable devices being used at critical phases of flight and transmitting devices at any stage. But, with hindsight, it may have been better to report it for the evidence reasons you cite.

My point was, anyway, that mobile phones do cause issues to navigation and perhaps other systems on 80s-90s airframes and still cause comms interference on current production models. And just because I haven't noticed any other ill-effects from phones on the newer aircraft, it doesn't eliminate them; there may be subtler effects in systems that don't have obvious indicators, like aircon temperature controls, fuel level indications, IRS drift rates, FADEC and so on. Who knows?

I remember one skipper who would confiscate the phone of anyone caught using it on board more than once and enter an incorrect PIN three times, handing the phone back at the end of the flight. It's not theft, and it didn't cause any damage, so he figured the offending pax couldn't come back with any complaint...