Trails

[jtype]

It seems that the skies in West Wales have been bombarded with plane trails over the last six months or more. The trails seem to merge and form clouds. Today I noticed at least 7 planes giving off trails at the same time but when I took a quick look to check on planefinder, there was just one plane within 20 miles.
I have noticed that one plane went over at the same tim as the others and there were no trails and this one seemed to be showing on planefinder.
Can anyone tell me what these trails are and why?
Sorry if this is the incorrect section to post such a question.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Contrails are frequently produced by high-flying aircraft. However, particular atmospheric conditions are required for the contrails to form and they sometimes exist only in small vertical segments. E.g. you may see and aircraft trailing at 34,000 ft but one at 32,000 may not. Also, you may go for many days without seeing any contrails and then see lots. You can read about them here: Contrails (http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html)

[jtype]

Thanks for the reply. Another thing I am finding strange is that they form criss cross patterns, which never used to be the case. Is there any way I can check what flights are overhead. I have checked on Plane Finder ? Live Flight Status Tracker (http://www.planefinder.net) but they are not shown, so, can I rule out passenger flights?
Any advice on where I can get more information?
They do not seem the trails I am used to seeing elsewher as they tend to have a whispy spread.

[aviate1138]

Please do not consider Chemtrails as being a possibility. For many decades contrails in various parts of the world produce crossing patterns where flights are made with a heading of around 90º/270º difference at similar times. The spacing comes from the airmass moving
and the frequent flights being at the right height for the condensation trails to form.

HD link Contrails is worth a read.

Another one worth a look at is Contrail Science (http://contrailscience.com)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

jtype Try this: Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! (http://www.flightradar24.com/)

You can choose the area to watch in the top RH corner and also move the map by holding down the left mouse key and dragging it. Flight Radar will show many flights but not all. Military flights as well as some other types of flight may be blocked but most commercial airliners flying the airways system will be displayed.

The routes flown on regular commercial services can vary, particularly those flying over the Atlantic where they will take advantage of upper winds. So one day you may see many flying westbound and next day you may see fewer.

HTH

[jtype]

Thanks, yes, that was one of the sites I used to check and a quick look now is a great example of what I am saying. At present, just 1 within 50 mile radius but look to the sky and it is a lot different.
I appreciate that particular atmospheric conditions are required for the contrails to form, but would conditions have changed so drastically over the last year or two?
Also, I assume such atmospheric conditions change all the time, buy why are the trails there every day and throughout the day. Have the conditions changed so muc they don't actually change anymore?

Someone says "Please do not consider Chemtrails as being a possibility". I will consider everything and anything at the moment as it seems nobody can give me the information I would like.

[aviate1138]

jtype
"I will consider everything and anything at the moment as it seems nobody can give me the information I would like."

Are you certain "conditions have changed so much"?

Living in the Surrey Hills it all seems relatively normal to me.......

[Capetonian]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXIpqdNkxPwu8NXHnvWE0uIccnA_V886T-jUqW2d9nykEiAwhS

I often see contrails and no corresponding flight on FR24 etc. Never worried me, but now I realise I should probably be wearing my tinfoil hat and building a chemtrail proof shelter before the men in white coats come to take me aw ............

[wiggy]

Like others here I have flown over that part of the world many times over the years, no doubt often leaving a trail. Nothing has changed that I know of in the last few years...maybe it's simply the case that you think you spotted something strange and are now spending more time looking at the trails than you were a few years back.

it seems nobody can give me the information I would like.

OK, what information would you like? From what I've can see you've been given plenty good factual objective information.

Capetonian :ok:

[jtype]

It seems some are obsessed with Chemtrails. I had to look up what they were, I just want to know why in the last year or so there is a huge increase in trails, also often crossing and where I could see what is in the air, like flight radar, as if what you say is correct, that site cannot be relied upon for accuracy?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

There are several web sites like Flight Radar which depend in input from ground stations for their information. Many such ground stations are enthusiasts using readily obtainable equipment such as SBS who feed the information over the internet to FR. These simple gadgets receive secondary radar transmissions from aircraft (some aircraft, not all) and, using clever software, plot the positions on a PC screen producing displays not unlike ATC Radar. If the "ground station" happens to pop down to the shops or goes on holiday the coverage of quite a large area can be lost if the SBS is turned off. I have an SBS device with a small aerial on the side of my house near Reading, Berkshire. As I type I can see an Irish airliner at 38,000 ft over Liverpool. If I moved the aerial a little higher I could probably see over west Wales. However, I don't have SBS on all day so I do not contribute to FR or other sites. These sites cannot be relied on for anything like 100% accuracy.

Contrails crossing are not unusual because the airways cross. E.g. traffic heading from Scotland to Spain may well route south over your area as will "crossing" traffic from London to/from the USA. There will inevitably be military traffic which won't be "seen" except on real radar.

It's difficult to know what to suggest to help you further as there are so many variables.

[treadigraph]

Just looking at FR24 with altitude filter set to 30000+ which should include anything contrailing and transmitting the necessary data - a dozen or more aircraft visible across South Wales and a few more over north Wales.

I saw a beautiful contrail curving round over South London on Monday evening - not on FR24 at all, but through the binos it appeared to be be a Global Express, probably an RAF Sentinel.

[wiggy]

It seems some are obsessed with Chemtrails.

Well if you claim people are giving you information you don't like it's not suprising folks think you might have an alternative agenda, I'm glad you haven't.

I just want to know why in the last year or so there is a huge increase in trails, also often crossing

There's certainly been a gradual increase in traffic over the decades, but I'm really not sure it's a "huge increase" in the last year.

Just a few thoughts. Confirmation bias? Is it possible that once you noticed the phenomonem you think you detected you've started taking more of an interest in contrails and you're only just aware how busy it is "up there"? Is the weather better this year (fewer clouds) than in previous years and therefore the trails are more visible? Have you changed jobs/working hours and are "spotting" at peak times?

As for the reliability of the "radar sites", no they don't show everything.

[Hotel Tango]

jtype, don't take any notice of the nonsense people are trying to sell you. The truth is that this increase in contrails is down to increased alien activity in preparation for an invasion of earth. Authorities know about it but don't want to cause a worldwide panic. Agents roam these forums to discredit those who have noticed this increased activity. Do you have a cellar?

[Capetonian]

This may be true. I was disturbed early this morning my a strange humming noise and flashing lights which lit up the room and seemed to come through the walls and ceiling. I got up to make tea and this fellow was sitting on the side of the kitchen sink. Seemed friendly enough but neither of the cars would start this morning and everything in the deepfreeze had defrosted. Very odd.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzW_kodTGtQyBSmqo18186ecx8nG2pRh4bAMxYCav-6XcgR4tx

[Hotel Tango]

How the heck did you get a picture of my wife?!!

[DaveReidUK]

I would agree that this year's fine summer has no doubt resulted in many more sightings of contrails over at least parts of the country. At the risk of stating the obvious, aircraft still contrail above the clouds when it's raining (as it often seems to do in West Wales in normal years) - you just can't see them then.

And the flightpaths that they are following when they cross each other have, in most cases, been there for decades, although of course the numbers of aircraft have been steadily increasing over the years.

So, much though I love a good conspiracy theory, I don't think there's one operating here.

[thing]

Don't know exactly where in west Wales you are but looking at my half mil there are two intersecting airways roughly above Ebbw Vale. Not west Wales I know but at 30 odd thousand feet you would be able to see them from quite a way off on the ground.

[jtype]

thing. Swansea.

[jtype]

Hotel Tango. Nobody trying to sell me anything, purely my own observation which I was seeking information on.

[jtype]

wiggy. If asking information is having a hidden agenda I am guilty.
If asking information to learn, I am guilty.
You be judge and jury if you wish.
There are some who like to learn.

[jtype]

There's certainly been a gradual increase in traffic over the decades, but I'm really not sure it's a "huge increase" in the last year.
Ask people from the area then.

Is the weather better this year (fewer clouds) than in previous years and therefore the trails are more visible?
No, much more cloud an overcast that previous years and certainly not like being shown on national, regional and local weather, yet just a couple of miles away and totally different, at the same time.

Have you changed jobs/working hours and are "spotting" at peak times?
No to job/working. Times vary and on a like for like basis.

As for the reliability of the "radar sites", no they don't show everything.
So that simple statement could be a possibility?
Could be seven up there but nothing showing with 50 miles.

[wiggy]

"Ask people from the area then" .....:bored: and there I was trying to be polite.

You have access here to people who have flown or controlled aircraft over Wales for decades. They have given you honest answers, including the fact that there has not been a massive increase in traffic over the last year, but for some unfathomable reason you don't seem to "like" the answers.

FWIW my own theory (which I am also sure you won't like) is that you have started looking at the sky on a more regular basis than in previous years, perhaps prompted by the "radar sites" and have gone " blimey I've never noticed all that lot up there before". You've convinced yourself and possibly others that something has changed and nothing anybody posts here can now convince you otherwise.

I'll sign off now with a final comment that there's nothing going on up there other than the normal mix of civil and military traffic in normal numbers. I will be overflying your part of the world later today so I'll be sure to wave.....

[jtype]

"Ask people from the area then"
Have and their thoughts are the same as mine. More traffice.

They have given you honest answers
I have not claimed different, but have asked where I can see evidence of what flights are there at any time.

including the fact that there has not been a massive increase in traffic over the last year, but for some unfathomable reason you don't seem to "like" the answers.
Ypu opinion of course. Don't you like people having inquisitive minds and wishing to learn. What is the problem?
Liking the answer does not come into it.

FWIW my own theory (which I am also sure you won't like) is that you have started looking at the sky on a more regular basis than in previous years
Many thanks. I am so glad you have the technology to support that :ugh:

"perhaps prompted by the "radar sites" and have gone "
The viewing a radar site was done, as my posting on here, to seek guidance.

You've convinced yourself and possibly others that something has changed and nothing anybody posts here can now convince you otherwise.
Did you know the world is not flat?

I'll sign off now with a final comment that there's nothing going on up there other than the normal mix of civil and military traffic in normal numbers.
Did not claim and had no reason to believe there was anything "going on".
You do have an obsession about something:rolleyes:

I will be overflying your part of the world later today so I'll be sure to wave.....
Your welcome. Don't expect acknowledgement, as you may be aware, there is very low cloud, so you cannot be seen.

[Capt Kremin]

World Air Traffic has increased by an average of 5% a year since 1970. That's very nearly exponential. Go to Metabunk.org if you want to see this hoax debunked.

[Brainfart]

Can you confirm that when you are looking at the contrails the plane is still visible when you look at the trail? Could it be possible that the trail you are looking at has been there for a while (they tend to linger) and the aircraft is now further than this 50 mile radius you are looking at on flight radar? Seeing 7 contrails does not mean 7 aircraft are within your field of view.

[Noah Zark.]

An aircraft flew over my patch the other evening leaving a beautiful pinkish-orange chemtrail. Is this just a different flavour? (or flavor, depending on where you're reading this! :))

[DaveReidUK]

An aircraft flew over my patch the other evening leaving a beautiful pinkish-orange chemtrail.

No doubt leaving delighted shepherds in its wake.

[pax britanica]

Another favourite puzzle for people is when contrails just disappear -a common site around London when the aircraft is at a marginal contrail level and suddenly enters an area of slightly warmer air and bingo no trail-
I livid in Bermuda for many years and this phenomena was very common- contrail over sea- disappears over island- re appears when over sea again
They are very capricious and complicated things as many here have suggested with a huge number of variables affecting their formation .

Given that government agencies tend to stuff up a lot of things they do the idea that any serious effort at chemical distribution via them is pretty remote- its like the use of poison gas in WW1-oh **** the winds changed and we are gassing our own side.

Pretty to look at tho and I miss them when in parts of the world that are 'off airways or after the volcanic ash problems
PB

[philbky]

I use and contribute to Planeplotter. Having been watching aircraft for 57 years I can say that, even with the after effects of 9/11 and the world economic downturn, the number of flights over UK and Irish airspace has increased during the last 3 years or so and the levels are pretty much equalling the all time high.

West Wales is a happy hunting ground for both RAF AND USAF aircraft which do not show up on FR, some do on Planeplotter. Also there has been a significant increase in direct routings to Atlantic Ocean entry points for traffic out of mainland Europe and a not insignificant number of LHR departures, all which not many years ago would have been tied to airways. As I'm typing there is an example of a very short haul flight from LHR to DUB over Builth Wells at FL320. He will exit the UK on a direct track to DUB over Aberystwyth. He is on FR and, given the weather tonight, will be pulling a contrail. In days gone by he, and the Atlantic bound traffic would have routed either via Brecon and Strumble or via Wallasey. At the same time there are 4 other Aer Lingus flights visible that have followed, or are about to follow, a similar routing. Further south there is a Kerry to Stansted Ryanair flight at FL390 over Haverfordwest.

This year these islands have had much better weather than the previous three summers. From my vantage point on the west coast of Ireland I've sighted far more aircraft trailing this year than for many years previously both on airways and on direct routings. Primarily this is because of the predominance of winds on the Atlantic favouring flights crossing my airspace, the temperature gradients being conducive to contrail formation over a wide range of flight levels and, of course, far more days with reduced or zero cloud cover. Most aircraft have shown up on Planeplotter, far fewer on FR, and there have been times when three or four Delta B767-300s have been sighted at the same time and these do not show up on any plotter. What the OP is observing is nothing more than the average day's use of part of the UK's increasingly crowded airspace.