air new zealand to start ice flights

[waren9]

how good is this? something different for the boys on the 76.

media release from air nz

24 September 2013

Antarctica New Zealand invites Air New Zealand to provide air services to Antarctica

Antarctica New Zealand has invited Air New Zealand to assist with transporting Antarctic scientists between New Zealand and Antarctica on a charter basis.

In line with this Air New Zealand will next month operate a proving flight from Auckland to McMurdo Sound using one of its Boeing 767-300 aircraft.

Antarctica New Zealand and the United States Science Foundation co-operate to transport approximately 2,200 scientists between New Zealand and Antarctica each season.

Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully welcomed the partnership between Antarctica New Zealand and Air New Zealand. “This will fundamentally change our capability on the ice. Unlike the RNZAF 757s which currently fly to Antarctica, the Air New Zealand 767 can make a return trip without refuelling.”

Antarctica New Zealand Board Chairman, Rob Fenwick, says, “Working with Air New Zealand could provide the New Zealand and United States national Antarctic programmes with more operational flexibility.”

The charter schedule, to be confirmed on the completion of a successful proving flight, could see two more Air New Zealand services operate to and from the ice this season. Air New Zealand’s 767s do not require any modifications to operate the flights.

“Air New Zealand is a keen supporter of Antarctic research and last year formalised a $1 million partnership between Antarctica New Zealand and NZARI, the New Zealand Antarctic Research Institute.”

Other support has included:

· $100,000 grants to two Antarctic researchers to support their post doctoral studies.
· Travel for scientists and research equipment from Canada and the United Kingdom to New Zealand to join Antarctic research efforts.
· Travel for New Zealand based researchers to travel to Canada and the United States to advance international research collaboration.
· Partnering with the New Zealand Antarctic Research Institute on polar amplification research and its potential consequences.

The proving flight is scheduled to depart Auckland International Airport on October 5, 2013. It will be crewed by Air New Zealand staff and supported by Antarctica New Zealand staff.

[004wercras]

I hope flight ops get the waypoints correct this time.

[ad-astra]

There had to be one idiot.

[tartare]

Well - that's a huge reversal of viewpoint inside the Company if they go ahead.
I remember standing in Norm Thompson's office when a certain 737 flew offshore unauthorised to have a close look at an iceberg that had drifted off the coast of the South Island.
He said something to the effect of "this airline will not have anything to do with f*&king ice!"
Still a lot of painful memories for many grey heads there.

[limitedrisk]

Hey 004wercras, that was an extremely insensitive comment and a real cheap shot.

Better lock the thread up now.

[belowMDA]

It's a fairly exciting prospect, and one of the few reasons to consider a bid onto the 76. I think for many of us a trip to the ice would be one to remember. While the 767 has a dual GPS installed, does the FMC have any latitude restrictions? NZIR is at 77.51 s which is getting pretty low. Any operators out there know if it is restricted at all?

[DH164]

Don't worry 004, I'm sure some of us lafed at dat wun.

[Capetonian]

I hope flight ops get the waypoints correct this time.
Less funny than root canal surgery and in very poor taste.

[robdabey]

Get your scarfs fellas!

[topend3]

Don't lie and say you all weren't thinking it :hmm:

[waren9]

a small, "end of the line" carrier with a population base of fark all, with a currency that doesn't buy much, having a genuine crack at just getting on with it.

spot the contrast

good luck to 'em

[Roo]

belowMDA It's a fairly exciting prospect, and one of the few reasons to consider a bid onto the 76. I think for many of us a trip to the ice would be one to remember.... does the FMC have any latitude restrictions? NZIR is at 77.51 s which is getting pretty low. Any operators out there know if it is restricted at all?
Latitude restrictions on alignment, not navigation.

"..An extended 17 minute ground alignment is required between 70.2 and 78.25 degrees north and south latitudes.

In the NAV (navigation) mode the IRS will provide valid magnetic heading and track between 73 degrees north and 60 degrees south latitudes."

So heading ref switch in true below 60S as well.

Would this be the first time a wide body commercial jet has landed down there?

[d_concord]

Lets hope they do the sensible thing and go and have a look at it with either Skytraders or NZ Air Force both who operate airliners to there. Skytraders for quite a bit longer and with much more frequency.

No use relearning a lesson someone may have already learnt.

[TWT]

The proving flight is scheduled to depart Auckland International Airport on October 5, 2013

Wonder if it departed last Saturday ?Nothing in the news as far as I can see

[Newforest2]

There are still passengers waiting to be recovered on the DC-10. :hmm:

Recovery in doubt for remains of Canadian plane-crash victims in Antarctica - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/recovery-in-doubt-for-remains-of-canadian-plane-crash-victims-in-antarctica/article14715682/)

[Sump Monkey]

Saturday was canx due to wxr, as was Sunday. Planned to operate Tuesday or Wednesday this week, although it is still looking dodgy due to high winds apparently.

[Paragraph377]

Newforest2, yes there are still bodies and body parts entombed on Erebus from the DC 10 crash. In 2004 with weather permitting, some photos were taken from the air of NZP laying on the mountains slopes, clearly distinguishable, as if it happened yesterday. (R.I.P Collins and Cassin, you were good men, robbed of life). This is dangerous territory for any pilot to fly, let alone a first timer to the area or one that is experienced but falls victim to organisational incompetence.

I don't wish to intentionally open not what I would call old wounds, but raw wounds, as this tragedy has never been put to bed due to the plethora of inaccuracies and the most palpable cover ups to have probably ever graced the land of New Zealand, but by god ANZ have either rocks in their head, giant testicles or simply a short fractured memory if they think going back to the ice is a good idea, even if it is for charter purposes.
As for a 'proving flight', well I hope the CAA actually has an FOI skilled in those flying conditions as well as 'white out'. But I highly doubt it.
And I hope ANZ don't have the bad taste to fly there on November 28, but then again nothing would surprise me.

Tartare, I raise a glass to that.

[waren9]

goodness me guys.

the industry has moved on. may be some on here need to as well. not as if they'll make the same mistakes again.

all power to them, i hope they make a real success of it.

[Water Wings]

As an aside to the posters concerned about Air New Zealand not having the experience to operate to Antarctica (albeit in different aircraft types), just consider the rather large number of ex RNZAF pilot's in the ranks with Antarctic experience.

There is plenty of internal and external resources available to be tapped.

[d_concord]

Well, if you think this is just a walk in the park operation, NZ nearly did it again yesterday. These guys and their pax were extremely lucky. Weather closed in past the PSR, couldn't get back Held for 2.5 hours till fuel became critical, if it wasn't already, and then shot an approach well past minimums.

Dodged a bullet well and truly.

If ANZ are not getting all he help they can get then the CAA have reason to worry. This is not a walk in the park and nothing like landing on a similar runway overseas as ANZ put out and also espoused by Sandilands. Elsewhere you may have any number of alternates to go to.

Have a read. This doesn't tell the whole story though and only the good parts. This was a very very serious situation. Crew did a great job.

McCully in Antarctic emergency landing - Story - NZ News - 3 News (http://www.3news.co.nz/McCully-in-Antarctic-emergency-landing/tabid/423/articleID/316245/Default.aspx)

[nitpicker330]

The first thing to note is that the 767 ANZ intend to operate can carry return fuel. So the problem of a PNR doesn't exist. Unlike the 757 in the above story they could have returned to NZ in this situation. :ok:

[d_concord]

Absolutely true on the B767. The A319 has round trip fuel capability as well.

The reality though is that there are a number of reasons that you may have to land other than just fuel as well. This is not the place to take lightly or believe it is just like everywhere else. So hopefully ANZ are not doing that!!

[waren9]

does the 757 not have extra centre tank options?

[haughtney1]

Warren, no 757 I know of has extra centre tanks, 34t is all you get, throw on a winglet or 2 and you get another 20 mins....but that's it.

[Sump Monkey]

Unfortunately weather has worked against Air NZ, and flights to Pegasus Blue Ice Runway (NZPG) have all been cancelled. The US National Science team has now closed Pegasus and moved operations to McMurdo Sea Ice Runway (NZIR).

Air NZ are undergoing assessments to operate to NZIR including info from the US Dept of Defence pavement engineers to determine aircraft weights, ice thickness and ramp static times for the runway.

The aim is to operate the proving flight NZIR in mid November.

[slamer.]

McCully tells of close call on flight

5:30 AM Friday Oct 11, 2013

Air force jet carrying minister to Antarctica had to land in whiteout after fuel stock passed point of no-return

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201341/SCCZEN_A_NZPA102535_220x141.jpg (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11138273#)


Foreign Minister Murray McCully says an air force inquiry is expected after a flight to Antarctica carrying 117 passengers was forced to land in a whiteout after being cleared for a safe landing.
The RNZAF Boeing 757 had to circle the Pegasus airstrip near Scott Base for 2 hours on Monday and made two aborted approaches before making an emergency landing in reduced visibility and freezing fog.
Mr McCully, who was on the flight, said: "We clearly knew that there was a capacity for this to have an untidy end, and we were enormously relieved that it didn't."
The air force reviewed the weather at the "point of safe return" or PSR - when there was still enough fuel to get back to Christchurch.
The 757 was given the green light to land but Antarctic's notoriously changeable weather stirred up half an hour after the plane passed the PSR.
"We did not have enough fuel to come home, and we had no means of making an unorthodox landing down there," Mr McCully said.
"It culminated in what they call a white-out landing. After burning out most of the fuel you get in as close as you can with the instruments and for the last 100ft or so try and
find a way down with the pilot using his wits, basically."

He said the passengers and crew went quiet as they approached the landing at around 5pm.
"All I can say is that I'm very relieved to be here. Having gone into that situation you need to understand the extraordinary skill that the pilot and his crew showed in being able to get us down in
circumstances that were really, incredibly difficult."
He said he expected the air force to review the landing. "There will be some sort of internal inquiry I'm sure about how one of its planes, with quite a lot of people on board, was able to get into
Antarctica without the ability to get back or to land."
A defence force spokesman said last night the event was being investigated to ensure all lessons were learned.
The spokesman said it was the first time that the air force 757 had landed on the ice in this way. The aircraft's instruments were used below the minimum altitude threshold until the pilots could see the runway.
Air NZ would soon conduct test flights to the Pegasus airstrip as part of a plan to transport American and NZ scientists. Unlike the air force 757s, Air New Zealand's 767 would be able to make the return
journey without refuelling. A test run was planned on October 5, but was postponed to November due to bad weather.

[craka]

This is from the US Antarctic Program Air Ops Manual

Basically looks like all B757 ops would breach these procedures:ouch:

1.5. Adverse Weather Landing Sites/Diverts

1.5.1. When whiteout conditions occur, an aircraft may be unable to complete an instrument approach to the Seasonal Sea Ice Runway, Pegasus White Ice Runway, Pegasus skiway, or Williams Field skiway.

1.5.2. Currently there are no adverse weather landing sites available for wheeled aircraft in Antarctica. Aircrew must ensure sufficient reserve fuel is carried to allow diverting to an alternate airfield off continent.

[tartare]

Not having detailed knowledge of the technical requirements of CAT3 alpha - I assume that it is technically impossible to establish autoland capability on an ice runway such as Willy's?
I.e. radar altimeters don't work reliably (or at all) off compacted snow or ice surfaces?
I assume if it was possible, it would have been done.
And expect the crosswind maximums might regularly be exceeded down there.

[c100driver]

TAIC opens inquiry into Antarctica flight safety incident (AO-2013-009) - Friday, October 11, 2013

The Transport Accident Investigation Commission has today opened an inquiry into a safety incident which involved a Royal New Zealand Air Force Boeing 757 landing in Antarctica on Monday (7 October 2013) in weather below minimum standards for landing and with insufficient fuel to reach an alternate airport.

The RNZAF had advised the Commission of the incident on Monday, and information provided since had allowed the Commission to determine it should and could investigate under the Transport Accident Investigation Commission Act 1990, chief investigator of accidents Captain Tim Burfoot said. “The Commission’s inquiry will work alongside but independently of the Air Force’s own investigation of the incident.

While the Commission is precluded from investigating incidents and accidents confined to New Zealand Defence Force resources, this occurrence involved a combination of military and civilian personnel and services,” Captain Burfoot said. He said it was too early to say how long the investigation would take or whether international participation in the inquiry would be required.

The Commission is a standing Commission of Inquiry that investigates occurrences with significant implications for transport safety in order to explain them and make recommendations, where appropriate, to help improve transport safety and prevent a recurrence.

[Fantome]

Excellent, well informed posts here much appreciated by those 'in the wings'.

Mr McCully, who was on the flight, said: "We clearly knew that there was a capacity for this to have an untidy end,"

. . . .. now there's a choice euphemism.

[uttanutta]

My understanding is that the 757 would of been carrying out a approach onto a vast unprepared area of ice to the West ?(beyond the no longer used Willys field) of Ross Island. This area is set aside for such occasions when approaches to either Pegasus or the Sea ice runway are not possible rather than attempt an approach and possible crash resulting in blocking of the ice runway. It is basically a blind approach right down to ground/ice or an intentional CFIT. I believe a Safair C130 had to do this a couple of summers back but would not think the outcome would be quite as successful in the B757. The ice is pretty rough with snow drifts and snow ridges (sastrugi) all over the area.
They were fortunate to able to break out of the cloud above the ice and fly VFR to the ice runway. Good end result as it could of ended a lot worse.

[compressor stall]

The whiteout landing area is not for wheeled aircraft for reasons you state.

break out of the cloud above the ice and fly VFR to the ice runway.

From what I have heard from a pax I'm not sure that's an accurate assessment of what happened.

And as for CatIII approaches etc. ... if the weather is that bad you shouldn't be there.

[Paragraph377]

This incident is bringing back nothing but bad bad memories.
At least Ron Chippindale won't be investigating it.

[Deaf]

And expect the crosswind maximums might regularly be exceeded down there.

Mate who did a year at Mawson said that you could use the wind direction as a compass however speed varied and in October 73 didn't get below 60 kts.