Chinese built Nanchang CJ-6 Crash Landing [video]

[FlySigi]

Nanchang CJ-6A (C-FTQW) gear-up landing during the Western Warbirds Association (WWA) meeting at the Oliver Airport (CAU3) in BC Canada [September 07, 2013].


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[Pace]

i know we look at a clip like that and think what an idiot but its so easy to do!
Lack of concentration a distraction?
I remember flying into an airfield between two hills in a seneca five I had another pilot with me and the weather was atrocious.
visibility awful, Low scud cloud.
On final a few hundred feet up i peered into the gloom for the runway which came in sight! Dropped the gear went for full flap.
we went into cloud, the runway vanished and I was IMC between two hills in a valley.
" No Good going around!" My pilot friend used to a multi crew operation raised the gear at the precise moment that we came out of the cloud with the runway 200 feet below in very poor viz.
I know descended peering to keep the runway in view. Something did not feel right and as I flared to land that feeling that something was not right grew stronger I peered down to see no Greens and it dawned on me the gear was up although I had put it down.
I went full power pulling the nose up in a go around barely feet off the runway expecting the props to hit anytime!
My multi crew pilot friend had in that instant raised the gear for me and forgot to mention it! I was so intent on looking for the runway I did not notice and we came inches from hitting the props so beware its easy to do


Pace

[Big Pistons Forever]

I disagree it is easy to land gear up. It is the most preventable accident there is.

My initial instruction on a retractable gear airplane was done by a crusty X RCAF QFI. He beat into me that on final when you go through 500 AGL or roll wings level on final you check "gear down". He made me verbalize it every time, something I still do (although now softly enough that nobody can hear me).

I religiously did that for over 20 years and saw the 3 green lights every time until one day a few years ago they were not there on short final. It was the classic case of multiple changes in the plan, cockpit distractions and time pressure broke my concentration and I forgot to lower the gear, but that ingrained habit saved me.

It can save you too if you are willing to exercise the personal discipline to make the gear check a habit and beat yourself up if you ever miss the call.

[abgd]

I read somewhere that nobody has ever landed a 747 gear-up. I find it very impressive that human beings can, under the right circumstances, be so reliable.

[India Four Two]

abgd,

That's true, but John Deakin (AVweb Pelican's Perch) very nearly did land a 747 gear up. You can read his story here:

Pelican's Perch #80: Gear-Up Landing In A 747? - AVweb Features Article (http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/188536-1.html?redirected=1)

[treadigraph]

A USAF C-5 crew landed their steed gear up at Travis AFB about 30 years ago...

[172driver]

There was also an Air India at JFK. Noticed by the tower controller - they got the gear down just in time. The audio is somewhere on the web.

[3 Point]

Hey Pace,

Your friend who was used to multi crew operations didn't do you any favours there did he? It's a fairly basic principle of multi crew operations that the non-flying pilot doesn't just do things on his own (unless the SOP says so) without waiting for an order from the flying pilot.

Big Pistons, agree that it's the most preventable accident there is but, at the same time its also one of the simplest accidents to get involved in. A very interesting paradox! If it were truly "the most preventable" then it wouldn't keep happening! The only way to make it "preventable" for individual pilots is strict cockpit discipline (as you were taught by your instructor) plus an acknowledgement that it can happen to any or us at any time.

Glad to see the crew apparently unhurt in this incident and I'm sure the aeroplane will be repaired and airborne again quickly (albeit expensively!!).

Happy landings (with three greens!)

3 Pont

[daxwax]

Surely this was a deliberate wheels up landing given that he cuts the engine just before impact?
Good job!

[3 Point]

Looks to me like the engine stops when the prop tips touch the runway!

[piperboy84]

This made me think about the guy that lost his son in the aopa vid posted on here before No Greater Burden - Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (http://www.aopa.org/Education/Safety-Videos/No-Greater-Burden.aspx)

Interestingly at about the 15:00 point of the vid he says regardless of whether he's flyin retractable or fixed he always does a GUMPS check.

[172driver]

Interestingly at about the 15:00 point of the vid he says regardless of whether he's flyin retractable or fixed he always does a GUMPS check.

Same here. This was drilled into me by my instructor from the first lesson. I almost only fly RGs, but when flying fixed gear I still do it. In fact, probably saved me from a gear-up not long ago (the usual scenario: distractions, high workload, etc). Caught it during the GUMPS.

[3 Point]

Yep, he always does his GUMPs check but still it didn't save him from having the accident. There were many many factors involved so this "most preventable" of accidents becomes, on detailed analysis, much more complex. Can happen even to the some careful pilots and to those who "always do GUMPS". The best defence is to acknowledge that it certainly can happen to you, even if you "always" do the checks!

He mentions "sterile cockpit" which is another important tool to reduce human factor error at critical phases of flight.

[mary meagher]

If you land wheel up on tarmac in a glass glider, you qualify for the white line award.

There are those who are going to do it some day, and those who have done it....training gliders are usually fixed wheel, so the question seldom arises in training.

I was lucky, it was on grass, so only qualified for the green belly award....the embarrassing thing is, it was in front of my next student, who was waiting with the two seater when I landed in my Pegasus single seat glider...and wondered why the ground was a bit closer than ususal....

Forever after that, I would put the wheel DOWN below 1,000' or UP when above 1,000'. This may look silly when you are groveling in a one-sided thermal low down, but as an aid to my aging memory, worked well enough.

[Dave Gittins]

Pretty sure he got the donk stopped before the blades struck .. I can't see any bent blade tips.

Nicely done ... reckon they could (almost) just weld the gear down and fly it again.

[Cusco]

I disagree it is easy to land gear up. It is the most preventable accident there is.


At last someone with the balls to say it!

I've always maintained that landing gear up is totally avoidable and then someone trots out the cliched aphorism that 'there are those that have and those that will', making anyone saying they won't ever land gear up look incredibly smug.

I have had it bashed into me (like someone else posting here) to check out loud at 500ft that the gear is down:

In my case 'red, blue, greens'.

It may raise eyebrows from pax (as does my out-loud mantra on final of "height's good, speed's good. runway's good"- bashed into me by my PPL instructor 20+ years ago) but it's worked so far.....

[Ka6crpe]

MM
If you land wheel up on tarmac in a glass glider, you qualify for the white line award.


Many years ago a friend of mine completed his first ever 300 km for his gold C, with the wheel down (Std Jantar). Unfortunately he raised it to land on the grass. :O

Next day I almost did the same thing, in the same aircraft, when returning from a long X-country flight, the noise decreased when I was extending the gear. Fortunately the reduction in noise alerted me in time so as to not make the same mistake.

[Miserlou]

I also think the props stop before touchdown. Sounds like the engine is stopped just prior to touchdown too. Also looks like only one blade touches the ground.

This would suggest that the gear wasn't forgotten.

[Big Pistons Forever]

This accident happened at an airport neat where I live. The word from folks who were there was the pilot admitted to forgetting the gear. I believe "airshow-ites" was involved as there was a warbird fly in occuring that day.

As for the "it could happen to anyone" camp I respectfully disagree. A commitment to the personal discipline that comes from doing a final gear down check on every single landing will prevent this kind of accident.

[fernytickles]

There is no gear warning horn in a Nanchang, in its original state. Three pins appear when the gear is down, one above the cowling & one on each wing above the gear, plus green light in the cockpit. I came very close to doing this one day, flaps down then realised about 500' agl something wasn't right about the pitch, & the power required. There but the grace of good fortune . . .

As for gear up being the most preventable accident? I'd say fuel starvation accidents are higher, mainly because it tends to cause more fatal accidents.

[Madbob]

FWIW my opinion is that they forgot the gear but what I did see was what looked like deliberate right rudder pedal being applied half way through the slide.

Clearly they though it better to go off the side than off at the end! Happily the outcome was favourable, a gentle touch down and no fire resulting in no injuries and only some dented pride.

One for the file of "I learned about flying from...."

Out of curiosity - just how much runway did they have? Not easy to stop sliding with no brakes :E:E:E .....

From my experience having two crew is not as helpful as you might think and sometimes you are much better off on your own! The Auster had a flap lever mounted on the cockpit roof which you had to pull down for flaps. One "helpful" pax (also a pilot but not familiar on type) thought the lever was the hand brake, you can guess what happened next. The pax dumped the flaps on on short finals, in his opinion, to stop us landing with the brakes on.

Laws of physics do NOT take kindly to being treated that way! Full throttle, rapid re-application of flap and a lot of swearing JUST saved the day......but the outcome could have been a lot, lot worse :=.

MB

[M-ONGO]

As for the "it could happen to anyone" camp I respectfully disagree. A commitment to the personal discipline that comes from doing a final gear down check on every single landing will prevent this kind of accident.

Let's hope we never see a video of you in you're 'chang on here then captain!

Its the environmental capture that gets people. How many people in your time have you flown with have said out loud "reds, blues, greens" or similar words and physically have not checked the gear. I for one have flown with a few like this (PPL level checkouts etc) and turned it in to a good learning exercise for them. The other thing that gets my goat in light aircraft is pilots selecting flap and not visually checking the position.

As an SOP at work, the pilot non flying, when commanded, will select gear after a speed check, and leave his hand on the lever until indications are as expected, i.e. reds out and three greens indicating.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Let's hope we never see a video of you in you're 'chang on here then captain!

.

I don't think you ever will but if you do it will be incontrovertible evidence of a shameful level of stupidity on my part.

Us pilots can chose to take responsibility for our actions or pass off pure incapacity and neglect as "there but for the grace of god go I" :ugh:

The runway was 3200 X 50 feet, has a somewhat obstructed approach path and can have challenging winds. He touched down almost 2/3 rds of the way down the runway. Even if the wheels had been down it would have been a challenge to stop in the runway remaining, which leads to the question of why did he not go around when he was well down the runway and still in the air.

Again personal flying discipline should mean having a pre selected touchdown point and going around if it is obvious you are going to be long......

I feel bad for the guy especially as I hear he has no hull insurance, but the bottom line is he is flying a higher performance complex aircraft and failing to exercise the personal discipline to operate it properly is a choice.

[m.Berger]

If the aircraft went tech (the engine has stopped so I ain't listening to the lynch mob,) It will have less drag, more speed and more float. It will also touch down later on the runway. If you know that you are going to belly land it, you probably spend an extra second just checking that the wings are level and the attitude good before planting it on. After all, you are unlikely to have done this before.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The engine had not stopped, the pilot forgot to put the gear down, it is just that simple.

[eharding]

I also think the props stop before touchdown. Sounds like the engine is stopped just prior to touchdown too. Also looks like only one blade touches the ground.

This would suggest that the gear wasn't forgotten.

The video of the recovery operation is here:

Recovery Of A Nanchang CJ 6A After A Crash Landing - YouTube

Gear did appear to operate correctly once selected down...just rather later than is usually deemed to be prudent.

I was expecting the boom on the lift truck to snap though.

[Barcli]

Flaps dont even look damaged - bolt on new MT prop and away you go.....:D:D

[3 Point]

It's clear from the prop damage that the engine was rotating at touchdown!

[piperboy84]

NFW would I be allowing a tow truck designed for hitching up illegally parked sub compacts to attempt to lift/move such a smart aircraft, even with the crash damage they should be using proper slings with cushions to prevent further damage.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I read somewhere that nobody has ever landed a 747 gear-up. I find it very impressive that human beings can, under the right circumstances, be so reliable.

Errr, it not that humans are so reliable, it's that the 'landing configuration alarms systems' on the aeroplane is so reliable! You'd have to be very determined indeed to land a modern airliner wheels-up!

I suspect the Nanchang, however, is like the Yak52 I used to fly - no gear unsafe warnings at all. A member of our group (not me) did a go-around at a very busy airfield and retracted the gear. On the subsequent landing, trying to fit in between slower traffic so under some stress, he forgot to lower the gear again as he had already mentally 'ticked off' gear-down. The first he knew of his error was when the prop hit the runway.

This instance in the video must be deliberate presumably because the gear wouldn't come down, as the pilot switches off the engine just before the landing.

[eharding]

This instance in the video must be deliberate presumably because the gear wouldn't come down, as the pilot switches off the engine just before the landing.

Well, I'm not so sure - SOP would suggest that if he knew he had a problem, they'd have had the canopies open before deciding to chuck it on the runway.

True, the propellor did stop as it made contact with the runway, but the 'changs have those gutless Huosai Mickey-Mouse clockwork things at the front, which have trouble pulling the skin off a rice-pudding at full chat, let alone at idle - had it been a proper hairy-harsed Yak engine, even at idle it would have shredded the prop, gouged a trench in the runway, and then probably wrenched itself off the engine mounts and bounced off looking for something else to attack....

...and if that doesn't get me fined a round of drinks by the Chang Gang, nothing will. Luckily, buying two Diet Babycham Spritzers isn't going to break the bank :}

[maxred]

...and if that doesn't get me fined a round of drinks by the Chang Gang, nothing will. Luckily, buying two Diet Babycham Spritzers isn't going to break the bank

Yeah, but the Malibu chaser will.....

What is the horsepower in that Chang engine? Is it 360?

[Tay Cough]

285 stock. There is allegedly a Housai with 400 hp available, which would be quite sporty and a few folks in the States have fitted them with the Vedeneyev from the -52.

[Big Pistons Forever]

When you are paying for the gas 285 Horses is plenty :ok:. I find it plenty zippy and it is lighter than a Yak 52 (360 hp) so performance is pretty close for less fuel burn, plus it it a lot nicer looking airplane.

The 400hp Husoi makes the airplane a climbing fool and it is a wonderfully smooth engine too. Unfortunately only a few dozen 400 hp variants were made so they are very hard to find.

A lot of US guys have put the MP14 engine in theirs although I think many are driven by anti Chinese sentiment rather than a dispassionate comparison of the benefits vs the cost. All of the 5 Changs at my home drome have the Husoi engine and all of us have had excellent luck with the reliability and low cost of parts for this engine.

Finally according to a guy I know that witnessed the "landing" shown in the video, the Husoi engine was running just fine until the blades started hitting the pavement still under power. In this case forgetting the gear destroyed a 20 K USD MT prop and will require a engine tear down. Since the engine is geared I expect the nose case is toast. Sadly further damage was done with the very poor job made of the recovery.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Finally according to a guy I know that witnessed the "landing" shown in the video, the Husoi engine was running just fine until the blades started hitting the pavement still under power.

Take another look at the vid. The prop stops rotating before ground contact, with one blade pointing almost straight down. Then, as that blade contacts the runway it causes the prop to rotate few degrees further as it gets pushed round.

[First_Principal]

The prop stops rotating before ground contact

SSD: I agree, in my view the pilot realised at the last moment what was to entail and shut the noise off (remembering that we'll get to hear that a little after we see what's going on). Probably thought there was no other way out of the inevitable at that height...

Quick thinking - that sadly doesn't make up for the preceding lack of it :sad:

FP.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

SSD: I agree, in my view the pilot realised at the last moment what was to entail and shut the noise off (remembering that we'll get to hear that a little after we see what's going on). Probably thought there was no other way out of the inevitable at that height...

Quick thinking - that sadly doesn't make up for the preceding lack of it

Well, to recognise in a split second that the aeroplane is sinking below its normal touchdown height and then moving one's hand to the mags and switching them off in time for the prop to stop before runway contact would be quick thinking of an unlikely order.

Far more likely, surely, that he knew the gear wasn't down so had his hand on the mags already, and switched them off as late as possible but before the prop touched?

[BISH-BASH-BOSH]

The gear extends just fine, on the recovery video, no sign of an external air supply being attached to the aircraft to help extension, suggesting that the integrity of the landing gear system was just fine on touchdown.

NC has two air systems in flight, normal and emergancy bottles, gear is extended by a seperate air path on use of the emergancy bottle, and comes down at a hell of a rate.

There is no aural gear warning alert on the NC, position indication is by means of gear position lights and barbers poles, only, elec failure would render the indicator lights inop.

Pilot error i say.

[3 Point]

In any case, if our super sharp pilot had recognised at the last minute he was about to touch down gear up why not apply power, make a go-around and do the landing checks next time downwind??

If the gear system had malfunctioned and he was stopping the engine to save the prop why leave ti so late?? Stop the thing as soon as you are assured of making the runway then concentrate on the landing!

No, simple logic tells you that the first eh knew all was not well was when the engine stopped due to the prop striking the runway - simples!!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

No, simple logic tells you that the first eh knew all was not well was when the engine stopped due to the prop striking the runway - simples!!

1) There is no plural of the word 'simple'.

2) Simple logic tells me that if the prop stops before it strikes the runway (and it clearly does in the video), it didn't stop because it struck the runway. Another clue is the undamaged state of two of the prop blades as seen in the 'recovery' vid, with just the downward-pointing one (which can be seen in the original vid contacting the runway after the prop had stopped) being damaged. Simple!

[worrab]

1) There is no plural of the word 'simple'. ...unless you are an Eastern European meerkat.

[Big Pistons Forever]

http://oliverdailynews.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/09/a-plane-bump1.jpg

The prop was turning under power at the time of touchdown because the pilot forgot to put the gear down. It really is that " simple "

[3 Point]

Thanks for the picture Big Pistons; that should end the debate! This prop was clearly rotating at impact!

Sheep Driver, thanks for the grammar lesson. You're clearly not familiar with the annoying Eastern European Meerkats we have on TV here in UK!

[Pilot DAR]

1) There is no plural of the word 'simple'.

I would have thought anything was possible in a dialect where "finals" were what you did before one landing....

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

There'd be a heck of a lot more damage to the prop if it had been under power when it hit the runway! Our Yak's just disintegrated in a shower of wood, leaving two mangled stumps! And that was with the engine throttled back. The pilot told me afterwards that the first thing that alerted him to the problem was the bits of wood flying everywhere like a wooden snowstorm!

I say again, watch the first video. It clearly shows the prop stop before runway contact. And therefore no wooden snowstorm!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Shaggy see post # 19.....

[3 Point]

At about 14 Sec on the original video you can hear the noise change as the prop tips start to touch the ground then the engine finally stops about 16 Sec in. In any case, listen to what Big Pistons in saying; look at post #19. The pilot forgot to put the gear down!!

[maxred]

I have a couple of nails, a hammer, short shaft, and perhaps we can source the wood from the remaining bits of prop:hmm:

+16 for:-

The pilot forgot to put the gear down!!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

If you think a 200hp + radial engine can be stopped by its wooden prop tips hitting the runway, think again. The only way it could have stopped (other than running out of fuel or siezing up - both highly unlikely) is the pilot switching off the mags.

If it had been under power the blades would have sheared off near the roots in a shower of broken wood, leaving twisted, torn, delaminated wooden stumps where each blade had been. Like our Yak had when one of our group (not me!) did just that with the engine running but throttle closed (so only developing a fraction of its 360hp and with RPM low).

[eharding]

If you think a 200hp + radial engine can be stopped by its wooden prop tips hitting the runway, think again. The only way it could have stopped (other than running out of fuel or siezing up - both highly unlikely) is the pilot switching off the mags.

If it had been under power the blades would have sheared off near the roots in a shower of broken wood, leaving twisted, torn, delaminated wooden stumps where each blade had been. Like our Yak had when one of our group (not me!) did just that with the engine running but throttle closed (so only developing a fraction of its 360hp and with RPM low).

I think you'll find the traditional Yak 2 bladed props are rather less robust than the modern 3 blade item on the front of that Wok - and even then, they vary.

Years ago, we had a group member taxi the 52 across the PAPI stands - shredded the stand, the end of the prop was shattered but the rest was substantially intact - and that from an engine under some degree of power, not at idle.

I've also been sitting in the front seat of an Extra 300 when it suffered a gear collapse on landing, and experienced the sensation - engine at idle power, very similar damage to the prop in that photo. The engine stopped of its own accord on that occasion as well.

[Pilot DAR]

If you think a 200hp + radial engine can be stopped by its wooden prop tips hitting the runway, think again. The only way it could have stopped (other than running out of fuel or siezing up - both highly unlikely) is the pilot switching off the mags.

Yeah, if it were developing 200+ HP at the time it hit, the blades would be nubs befor the engine would stop. But an idling engine will take out each blade in succession, as it comes to a stop.

[M-ONGO]

I've also been sitting in the front seat of an Extra 300 when it suffered a gear collapse on landing, and experienced the sensation - engine at idle power, very similar damage to the prop in that photo. The engine stopped of its own accord on that occasion as well.
Too many Ginsters pies Ed?