PIA pilot suspended at LBA for violating rules!

[LBIA]

Hi

Last nights PIA776 service from Leeds/Bradford to Islamabad has been delayed by up to 14 hours, it was due out at 19:30 last night but the aircraft (A310, AP-BEQ) still parked up on the apron showing am 11:30 estimated departure, According to the following news report a PIA spokesman has confirmed that one of the pilots has been suspended for violating rules.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-118905-PIA-pilot-suspended-over-14-hour-flight-delay

I have heard this morning that the said person involved turned up at the airport last night intoxicated and that he may have been arrested by the Police. This has not been confirmed as yet though.

[keel beam]

This article seems to provide the answer

'Drunk' pilot arrested - Yorkshire Evening Post (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/regional-news/drunk-pilot-arrested-1-6066756)

[Basil]

Oh dear, bang goes a career. Somehow doubt that they have a rehab scheme in PIA.
OTOH, he may be well connected :hmm:

[Skyjob]

Suspected drunk airline captain charged (http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/story/2013-09-19/suspected-drunk-pilot-arrested/)

Pilot Irfan Faiz to face court on aircraft drink charge (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24163780)

[etrang]

They don't sound like a particularly supportive employer.

"The pilot will face legal proceedings in the UK and he will be sacked if convicted there.

"The PIA will not provide any legal assistance to Faiz and he will himself arrange such an assistance there."

[beardy]

A state for Muslims, not a Muslim state. Constitutionally it is secular, the judiciary try hard to keep it as such, but it is difficult given the politics.

Alcoholism is recognised as an illness, if so diagnosed I would expect ANY and EVERY company to support a sick colleague. There are protocols in some companies to confidentially report colleagues who display the symptoms and require treatment.

In some 'dry' countries/states one has to register as an alcoholic to be served booze.

[loc22550]

Your expectation is quite high Beardy..
Practically,Which airline is gone give a second chance to one of his pilot who get caught under the influence of alcohol when reporting for duty..?:hmm:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Alcoholism is recognised as an illness,>>

Right.. and if the man is ill he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an aeroplane.

[de facto]

There is a saying in China that goes like this:'a colleague in need is a colleague indeed'
He :mad: up and should pay the legal and professional consequences but should be supported during this ordeal.

[Artie Fufkin]

Do the police go on a special training course on how to make a ridiculous statement to the press?

arrested an airline pilot on suspicion of carrying out an activity ancillary to an aviation function while impaired by drink.

The Plain English Campaign would have a field day.

[beardy]

Heathrow Director, you are quite right, hence the benfits of a confidential reporting system.

Just do a search of all the other posts this site has on the same subject, you will come across a very moving story by one who suffered and was supported.

[Artie Fufkin]

Fair enough but The Plain English Campaign do have a point;

Sadly, thanks to the bureaucrats of public service industries, local councils, banks, building societies, insurance companies and government departments, we have learnt to accept an official style of writing that is inefficient and often unfriendly.

Whether it's the police spokesperson or the legislation that is at fault, it sounds patently ridiculous.

[phiggsbroadband]

Just to add some detail.. In the UK the drink/driving limit is 35ug/100ml of breath. All police portable intoximeters will only give a fail indication when over that limit.
The Aviation limit is 4 times less at 9ug/100ml. and would need to be measured, not by the portable meter, but by a larger calibrated machine at the nearest police station.

[eglnyt]

would need to be measured, not by the portable meter, but by a larger calibrated machine at the nearest police station.

Not entirely true. The portable meter in both the driving and aviation cases is used to provide the Officer with grounds to arrest the individual on suspicion of committing the offence. All portable devices in use are apparently capable of measuring the level with sufficient accuracy to do that for the airline cases as well as the driving ones.

The device at the station is used to provide the evidence to charge the individual. The original guidance from the Authorities on the Transport Act 2003 was that although these station machines were accurate enough to convict in both driving and aviation cases the evidence in aviation cases would initially be from blood or urine samples. It isn't clear whether or not that guidance is still being followed.

[beamender99]

The BBC has just posted

An airline pilot has pleaded guilty to being drunk just before he was due to fly an Airbus from Leeds Bradford Airport to Pakistan.

Irfan Faiz, 54, from Pakistan, was detained by police in the cockpit of a Pakistan International airways airliner shortly after 22:00 BST on Wednesday.

Leeds Magistrates' Court heard Mr Faiz was four-and-a-half times over the legal limit to fly.

[deSitter]

Alcoholism is recognised as an illness, if so diagnosed I would expect ANY and EVERY company to support a sick colleague. There are protocols in some companies to confidentially report colleagues who display the symptoms and require treatment.Getting drunk while in charge of an international flight is mental illness alright. The treatment is a job at 7-11 flying the candy counter.

[Basil]

BBC News - Pilot Irfan Faiz was four times over alcohol limit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24175643)
The court heard he was four-and-a-half times over the legal limit to fly.
Which is just over the legal limit for driving in the UK.

[FLCH]

Getting drunk while in charge of an international flight is mental illness alright. The treatment is a job at 7-11 flying the candy counter.


Yeah buddy.... tell that to Lyle Prouse

[Max Angle]

One more step down the road to random testing in the UK, won't be long now.

[Herod]

Remanded in custody until 18th October. I guess that's because he hasn't got a UK address. At least he won't have to pay hotel bills. Wonder what Armley is like these days?

[Una Due Tfc]

We get random drug and alcohol tested in the Atc center where I work, breath test for booze and give a urine sample which is sent off to a lab. They tested me twice this year. Are pilots randomly tested like this?

[Dct_Mopas]

Pilots in the UK aren't tested, that may end up changing in the future. However, tests can (and are) performed on UK crews whilst downroute. An example is at Amsterdam where random checks are commonplace.

[Heathrow Harry]

No-one would think about random checks if idiots didn't turn up drunk for duty

If you can't trust people then the authorities will be very happy to take control

[liam548]

Just to add some detail.. In the UK the drink/driving limit is 35ug/100ml of breath. All police portable intoximeters will only give a fail indication when over that limit.
The Aviation limit is 4 times less at 9ug/100ml. and would need to be measured, not by the portable meter, but by a larger calibrated machine at the nearest police station.

Not true. They will show a fail much below 35 and indeed can be switched between road, rail and avaition anyway. A fail on the portable device simply gives grounds to arrest. They are always placed on calibrated machine at a police station.

[Hotel Tango]

Heathrow Harry, there's a big difference (in my book) with someone being above the legal [aviation] limit and being "drunk" in the sense that people perceive the term.

[veeOne99]

FR pilot in UK base and I've had a random drug test so it does happen

[liam548]

Random checks occur in most professions with responsibility, no big deal if you stick to the rules.

[IcePack]

Until your right for a blood test is removed, by UK.gov.
Then a jail sentence for a false +ve. Yes it does happen as demonstrated at LHR a couple of years ago.

[SloppyJoe]

The whole random testing is such BS. I am not saying that people should be drunk flying aircraft but the authorities are missing the real danger. There should be a method to test fatigue and this should be randomly done to pilots. An airline with a high incidence of fatigued pilots should be investigated and the cause found and remedied. This would increase flight safety hugely.

How many commercial aircraft accidents over the past 20 years have had alcohol or drugs as a contributing factor. I am going to bet that anyone willing to search can't find a single one.

How many aircraft accidents over the past 20 years have had fatigue as a contributing factor. This is going to be a pretty big number.

It is madness that fatigue is not the main issue but takes a back stage to random drug and alcohol testing. These random tests do nothing to increase flight safety.

[SloppyJoe]

OK maybe in Russia where it is an actual problem this sort of thing may be sensible but can you honestly say you think alcohol is a bigger danger to flight safety than fatigue in almost every other country in the world?

[Capn Bloggs]

can you honestly say you think alcohol is a bigger danger to flight safety than fatigue in almost every other country in the world?
:D
Redirect all the money that is soaked up by the aviation anti-drug bureacracy and channel it into extra SIM hours for raw data excercises. That'll have a much better impact on current-era aircraft crashes.

[Capetonian]

How naive some people are. SWMBO looks up from the Ipad on which she's reading the news, in particular this item, and says :

"Aren't all Pakistanis Muslims?"
"Probably not all, but certainly the majority are" I replied.
"And Muslims don't drink alcohol.......?"

Yeah, right!

[Landflap]

Capt Bloggs ; Your post 34. Again, increasingly, I am in total agreement & beginning to enjoy your posts. What the hell is going on? Someone help me. The fight has gone, The spirit gone. Giving way to kids in the supermarket ! Heading for the medical section of Pprune right now !

[LeadSled]

Practically,Which airline is gone give a second chance to one of his pilot who get caught under the influence of alcohol when reporting for duty..?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

loc,

The answer is quite a few, and in companies with a good addiction management program, a good majority of cases are picked up and people (including pilots) are put into treatment programs before there is a career catastrophic event.

Bloggs,
I don't know what the world is coming to, this is the second or third time this years I have had to agree with you.

Folks, in aviation in Australia, we are not very good at spending the safety dollar where the obvious problem are, rather the money is spent on fashion of the moment feel good fiddlefaddling, particularly if it panders to public or union prejudice.

[DX Wombat]

there is near nil evidence that flying intoxicated (I would avoid using the term "drunk" as it doesn't apply in most cases) is statistically relevant in commercial air transport safety. Could this be because proper, detailed research has yet to be done?

[SetStandard]

Going by the number of pilots arrested and convicted for being intoxicated when on duty then yes, it is a problem.

Really?

You can't be arrested for being fatigue on duty, thats the problem. Make a little machine that some public servant (on a gold plated pension) can bring on to your flight deck, use, and a little red light comes on to show you're fatigued. Make that an arrest-able offence, attribute it to the company for the mixture of lates/earlies, flights through the night, disruption etc. Only then will someone actually give a dam about fatigue. Lets see how many crews report for work fatigued and I garentee it will be more than reporting with a level of alcohol greater than the set limit. Until that time, we have to find something else "measurable" for public servants to be employed to try and catch us out.

Oh no.... Wait, fatigue cannot be measured by some little handheld machine? Well, we will just carry on ignoring it then as it can't be a problem because a little red light doesn't say its a problem. :rolleyes:

Never mind the fact that it has some form of influence in 15-20% of all aviation accidents, not like bral's 2. :D

I better stop using my Listerine mouth wash before I go to work then, as that can make the machines little red light come on......... :hmm:

Pathetic.

[crewmeal]

What happened to the 'landing drink culture' Does it still thrive?

[gcal]

Exactly this thread is about alcohol not tiredness; when you sign in for a trip you also sign that you are fit to operate it.
Sooner or later random breath testing will come as it did in the railway industry and others including the UK armed forces which have random drug testing.
If those who fly both in the two best seats in the house and down the back want the best deal out of if they should IMHO volunteer to have this testing. They should suggest it.
Believe me that foisted on you won't come with such good terms.

[Wannabe Flyer]

He is not allowed booze in his country (openly). He gets to fly to a country where he can drink at a pub...... He does it and goes overboard. I am sure this is not the first time in his career he has done it, just that he got away all this time and thought he could again. A person of his age in a company like PIA, I doubt anyone in his own country or station manager or crew would dare report him, primarily as they are for the most part in the same boat.

Prohibition bred bootlegging and alcoholism in countries where it is taboo/prohibited breeds binge drinking as they do not know when they will get the chance for the next drink!

I would have loved to see how many duty free bottles of liquor were stuffed the carryon and the galley of that aircraft for sale in the "Black markets" of Islamabad!

[cockney steve]

when you sign in for a trip you also sign that you are fit to operate it. Thanks,gcal, that is the real issue here, isn't it.
Anyone lacking the self-discipline to self-monitor, is, IMHO, not fit to be in command of a commercial transport.

All this bleating about "hard to overcome addiction" Eh?....had the willpower to study and finance the acquisition of a licence, now, all of a sudden, that resolve has evaporated, and the poor,helpless jet-jocky is in thrall to addiction???

NO! wants to have the penny and the toffee, and is egotistical enough to think that, because he/she has earned the licence and paid for it, they've become one of the invincible elite.

Yea, I've had a hard life too, but I didn't prejudice my livelihood by breaking all the rules and risking other lives as well.

Wanna be a Pilot ?train driver ?Ship's Captain? HGV Driver?

Make sure your body is free from alcohol and drugs, before and during your duty!....Can't manage that?....you can't manage a command -post responsibility, then.
tough cheese, nobody said life's fair.

[Checkboard]

Oh no.... Wait, fatigue cannot be measured by some little handheld machine?


http://optalert.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AlternessMonitoring.jpg

Fatigue Management | Driver Fatigue Management | Fatigue Management Plan (http://optalert.com/)

Can't manage that?....you can't manage a command -post responsibility, then.
tough cheese, nobody said life's fair.
Diagnosed with a heart problem - you are no longer fit to fly, your medical (and the risk to the public) is suspended.

Have surgery to fix the problem, change your lifestyle to prevent re-occurrence and prove it's fixed by scans, stress ECG?
Get your medical back, resume your job (after a year or so).

Diagnosed with an addiction problem - you are no longer fit to fly, your medical (and the risk to the public) is suspended.

Have councelling to fix the problem, change your lifestyle to prevent re-occurrence and prove it's fixed by 12 months measured abstinence?
Get your medical back, resume your job (after a year or so).

UK CAP 789 - Para 4.13 :

The CAA has a well-defined protocol when it is informed that a medical certificate holder (flight crew or air traffic controller) may be misusing alcohol or drugs. For example, this would be activated if a pilot had failed a breathalyser test whilst performing an aviation function.

The person would be medically assessed, including blood testing, and a decision made whether there was alcohol or drug dependency that could be a risk to flight safety. If that were so, the pilot’s medical certificate would be temporarily suspended. He would then be invited to take part in a treatment and rehabilitation schedule. If that were successful, the pilot would be returned to flying with the requirement to provide regular reports and to attend follow-up assessments. Abstinence would be required. The CAA has found that approximately 85% of professional pilots with such problems can be returned to flying under this regime.

In addition, Part 96 of the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003 allows for a uniformed constable to carry out a preliminary test and there is no allowance for random testing under the Act.

There never has been an obligation on operators to take any action whatsoever with regard to testing. Testing is permitted only when a constable in uniform reasonably suspects that the person is committing an offence under the Act.

[fireflybob]

One more step down the road to random testing in the UK, won't be long now.

My contract with the last Company I flew for specified we could be random checked and we were on occasion.

In fact they took hair samples to check for drugs as well as alcohol.

I believe many airlines have similar contracts these days so nothing new about random checks.

In circa 40 years of airline operation I have never flew with any crew member who was anywhere near intoxicated - all the colleagues I came across were well aware of the responsibility to be fit to operate.

Fatigue is a far bigger issue.

[LBIA]

Well it looks like PIA have learned something from last weeks LBA incident and are set to implement changes to pre-flight checks

PIA Increases Pre-Flight Checks System Monitoring for its Cockpit and Cabin Crew

Lahore, 22 September, 2013 - To assure fool proof aviation safety in aircraft, PIA has increased strict monitoring of its Pre-Flight Checks System for both Cockpit and Cabin Crew with immediate effect.

Director Flight Operations has been assigned the task to personally monitor the Pre-Flight Check System on all flights with zero tolerance, this was stated by PIA spokesperson.

PIA Management has deplored the Leeds-Bradford incident in which one of its pilots was found in violation of aviation safety regulations. Though, the management has taken immediate action by grounding and suspending the pilot but to reassure its valued passengers a drive of strict monitoring is now in effect.

He said though, the Leeds-Bradford episode was an isolated incident but PIA is highly concerned about the strict monitoring of conduct of cockpit and cabin crew. It is to be assured that Aviation Safety Regulations which are already in place will be followed with high degree of certainty.

Director Flight Operations has instructed Chief Medical Officer to depute medical staff at all check-in points to ensure a fool proof monitoring. He has issued instructions to all concerned reinvigorating the need to implement safety regulations. Management has vowed to immediately suspend/ground safety rules violator on the spot which may lead to his/her termination from service, the spokesperson concluded.

Source: PIA Press Release (September 22, 2013)

[SetStandard]

I agree. This thread is about alcohol, but the part I take issue with is
Going by the number of pilots arrested and convicted for being intoxicated when on duty then yes, it is a problem.
when there are far bigger issues in this industry.

Im all for random tests, I have no problem with them at all. There is a set limit in all countries for blood alcohol level, it varies by different country and it is our job to comply with that level. If you suspect that you are anywhere near close to the limit, then you call in sick, that is basic common sense and airmanship. Just remember though that two individuals being tested in different countries can blow the same level of blood alcohol, but one is under the limit and one is "drunk" - go figure?? :confused:

From the 8 years I have been in this industry it is not a problem. Fatigue, thats a problem. Fatigue just gets swept under the carpet though because we have Flight Time Limitations that some one has decided will give us enough rest. So alls fine and dandy then. No accidents with fatigue as a contributing factor.

:hmm:


Report sick, ASR it. Trouble is that takes courage and the individual taking some personal responsibility doesn't it?

Wrong. It takes the individual not working for a company where they only get paid when they fly. And the individual not needing that money in the bank at the end of the month to pay for their families. In some companies, you don't go to work; you don't get paid. Thats a whole other different topic though I hear you say.....

[Checkboard]

I have just stumbled on the case of a man who was roaring drunk because there was enough yeast living in his gut to convert the starch that he had eaten into alcohol. I do know that most, (all?), jurisdictions allow for some blood alcohol from this cause but if you know that you have not been drinking when you are accused of being over the limit this might be the cause.
It doesn't matter where the alcohol comes from. If this is the case, then the pilot has a medical condition which precludes them from flying - and if they knew about it, they are guilty of the offence.

[Dynamite1]

[Una Due Tfc][If this pilot did indeed turn up intoxicated before his flight then of course he should face punishment]

Hey Guys, Its a 100% Breath Analyser Check before each flight in our part of the world. Accepted level is "0"!
Copy pasting part of the national regulators rule book:
ACTION ON POSITIVE TEST
Any crew member that tests positive for the first time or refuses to undergo the PFMC/operates the aircraft without undergoing breath analyser test/attempt to evade the test procedure by leaving the airport premises shall be considered as BA positive. Such crew members shall be kept off flying duty and their license/ approval suspended for a period of 3 months. In case the crew member is detected positive during PFMC for the second time, the license/approval shall be suspended for 5 years. For the purpose of this requirement, any crew member who has failed in PFMC before 13th November 2009 shall be considered as BA positive for the first time. In case the crew member fails in PFMC again after 13th November 2009, it shall be considered BA positive second time.

An Instructor/Examiner/Check crew/Cabin Crew In-charge detected positive during the pre-flight medical examination will lose such ratings/authorisation for at least 3 years in addition to the action as mentioned above.

All such violations shall be endorsed on the individual’s licence by DGCA.

In sum, a second chance is indeed given.....and why not....like so many have rightly posted.

[SetStandard]

bral

This isn't a willy waving competition of how bad your roster has been changing between late/early reports. You have no idea where in the world I have flown or who for, and I can assure you, I have stories that would give you nightmares, I haven't always worked for a UK company.

If after 30+ years in this industry you are droning on about it, all due respect, but you are typical of the current generation of senior Captains / middle managers who have allowed fatigue, zero hours contracts, pay to fly etc. to enter and gain ground in the industry. Then at some point in the next few years, you'll retire (I imagine) and leave it for my generation of Pilots to pick up the pieces.

But, alas, as you have said previously, this thread is about that "problem" in aviation of having a blood alcohol level that exceeds the local set limit. The difference is, even after 8 years in this industry, I don't see that as a problem. I see it as stupid, reckless and a lapse of ones professional standards that we must all bring to work with us every day of our working life, but I can see that there are greater problems that the industry faces (fatigue, zero hours contracts, pay to fly etc.).

Just my 2pence worth. I shall leave you all too it, as I now have to go to work........ :)

[SetStandard]

Any you have no idea what I have done in mine.

Lets leave it at that. :)

[STN Ramp Rat]

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-25754-PIA-pilots-want-clarification-of-drinking-regulations

an extract from the article



The email also narrated the incident, as informed by the co-pilot of Capt
Irfan, and said that right from the time of the hotel pick-up, ground journey to the airport, baggage check-in and walk to the aircraft through multiple security checks, nowhere did the captain’s behaviour reflected that he was intoxicated.

“The last security check prior to entering the aircraft irritated the captain
and he said so to the security personnel. He then sat in his seat and started the cockpit preparation,” it said.

“After a few minutes, the PIA station manager came and informed that the UK CAA would like to speak to him outside the aircraft and then take him to their office for an alcohol check. They did not want to check the first officer (F/O) so it was not a routine random check but specific for the captain.

[Herod]

So, the moral of the story? If you've had a skinful, keep a low profile and DON'T annoy security.

[John R81]

BBC reporting sentence BBC News - Pilot Irfan Faiz jailed for drinking before flight (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-25052665)

9 months incarceration.

[ETOPS]

And this little gem as well

BBC News - Pakistan air steward faces Leeds flight drugs charge (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-25035031)

[RoyHudd]

Pakistan seems a most problematic nation, not least in aviation spheres. The air accident stats within the country and the technical issues related to PIA's fleet are serious indeed.

[opnot]

nats atcos are randomly tested. somebody from mangement will ask you to accompany them to the tester for the test. they even take you off operational duties if your name is randomly chosen

[flash8]

Pakistan seems a most problematic nation, not least in aviation spheres. The air accident stats within the country and the technical issues related to PIA's fleet are serious indeed.

Indeed.

“The agency (EASA) had to learn that PIA aircraft subject to SAFA inspections over the last 12 months have revealed numerous maintenance-related findings. We make reference to the SAFA inspection reports AESA E2011 – 361 and 455, CAA N 2011 – 24, -38, and -46, CAA UK 2011 – 187 and -664, DGAC/F 2011 – 608, -878, -1138,-1370,-1560,-1811,-2084 and -2274, and finally ENAC IT 2011 – 569.

“In every single case, the class of action taken resulted in corrective actions before flight. It is obvious that all referred SAFA reports related to PIA aircraft on Pakistan register show a systematic deficiency regarding the planning and execution of the required maintenance tasks.

“From this we have to draw the conclusion that the continued surveillance by the CAA Pakistan is considered ineffective.

Consequently, we are not any more in a position to rely on the statement of CAA Pakistan as a mitigating measure for the continuing validity of your approval.

EASA speak for we don't trust you.

PIA spokesperson Sultan Hassan said that the European Aviation Safety Agency had not raised any such issue with the PIA. He added that the PIA was not facing any ban threat to its operations in Europe

Head in sand approach.

[corera1969]

During the fermentation process yeasts always produce carbon dioxide gas as well as alcohol. It is a result of the chemical conversion from carbohydrates (sugar or starch) to ethanol, and it is an incomplete conversion with carbon dioxide produced in various amounts depending on the conditions. If this person really had a yeast factory in his gut strong enough to produce intoxication I would certainly suspect that he had some really serious gas :eek: and other colic like problems too. With such a condition you won't be able to fly anyway :ugh: He may even be hypoxic also as carbon dioxide can go through the gut wall.

[oceancrosser]

[Una Due Tfc][If this pilot did indeed turn up intoxicated before his flight then of course he should face punishment]

Hey Guys, Its a 100% Breath Analyser Check before each flight in our part of the world. Accepted level is "0"!
Copy pasting part of the national regulators rule book:
ACTION ON POSITIVE TEST
Any crew member that tests positive for the first time or refuses to undergo the PFMC/operates the aircraft without undergoing breath analyser test/attempt to evade the test procedure by leaving the airport premises shall be considered as BA positive. Such crew members shall be kept off flying duty and their license/ approval suspended for a period of 3 months. In case the crew member is detected positive during PFMC for the second time, the license/approval shall be suspended for 5 years. For the purpose of this requirement, any crew member who has failed in PFMC before 13th November 2009 shall be considered as BA positive for the first time. In case the crew member fails in PFMC again after 13th November 2009, it shall be considered BA positive second time.

An Instructor/Examiner/Check crew/Cabin Crew In-charge detected positive during the pre-flight medical examination will lose such ratings/authorisation for at least 3 years in addition to the action as mentioned above.

All such violations shall be endorsed on the individual’s licence by DGCA.

In sum, a second chance is indeed given.....and why not....like so many have rightly posted.

Err, that sounds like a police state to me... Wonder which one, probably close to the Middle E...

[Airbubba]

Err, that sounds like a police state to me... Wonder which one, probably close to the Middle E...

It is India, see:

http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D5f-f3.pdf

Blowing positive for the first time gets you in a lot more trouble than a three month suspended license in the U.S. But, folks still do it regular as clockwork... :ugh:

[MarkerInbound]

To assure fool proof aviation safety

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

Douglas Adams

[cairndow_123]

In France long distance bus’s are equipped with a system which requires the driver to blow into a device, whereby if a trace of alcohol is detected,The engine of the bus will not start. I realise such a system is not full proof, if for example the driver engages another to blow. With some careful planning a similar system could be installed in cockpits ?

[DX Wombat]

He may even be hypoxic also as carbon dioxide can go through the gut wall. Not necessarily. Hypercapnia is more likely to cause an increase in respiration rather than a reduction with probable resulting hypoxia. In an otherwise healthy person hypercapnia is easily overcome simply by breathing. Some information here. (http://www.uptodate.com/contents/use-of-oxygen-in-patients-with-hypercapnia)

[Navajo8686]

cairndow_123

Britain's (main) long distance coach company - National Express - uses a similar system on all of it's coaches (I think it's called Alcolock) to prevent any drink/driving.

For once us and France have something in common!

[cobol]

Interesting idea. If fitted, the pilot(s) could even check themselves in flight

[Herod]

the pilot(s) could even check themselves in flight
Then, if over the limit, enter the hold until it shows OK. :ok:

[JW411]

A bit like the great story back in the 1960s of the Shackleton captain who got breathalysed on the way home in his car at 0830 and failed.

According to legend he had already done a 12-hour search and rescue mission.

[Willie Nelson]

I remember some years ago I got pulled over just after lunchtime on my motorcycle with a friend on the back, I was bagged and indicated 0.07% Blood alcohol Concentration when the legal limit for me at the time was 0.02% I was very nervous as I knew the law and also knew that I had not touched alcohol in days.

I explained this to the police officer and he did seem a little puzzled as I did not indicate any degree of obvious impairment.

He allowed me to go and wash my mouth out with water at a nearby tap and less than 1 minute after initial test I blew in the bag again indicating 0.0%

In short, mistakes can be made, but even the most "police state" tests do allow for such anomalies (as the Indian policy states)

[Anthill]

Qantas has a former Captain now flying as permanent FO due to drinking out of limits. Not over limit, but within 8 hours of sign on. Is rumoured to be DAMP tested at each sign on.