Cobham the new Qantas?

[Wedcue]

First it's Canberra, now its Tazzie..

Cobham to be the next new Qantas until they replace them with another.

I get it.

But it just sucks that it has to happen to what was once a great industry.

It's a shame.

[Buttscratcher]

Once?
Mate, nothin wrong with Cobham per cest
...... but I guess you don't remember Tatars, when the dinosaurs ruled the land, QANTAS was never domestic then anyway, and they eventually boned the Ausair blokes for a slice of the pie.
And on a similar note, Pornstar was only Nopulse once too, right

No point in getting misty-eyed if you remember the joint's odd-ball history

[RENURPP]

From memory, Cobham (national Jet) were in Canberra years ago (around 15?)as well as rocky, Mackay, brisbane, Cairns, Darwin, Perth etc etc.
So whats new?

[Chocks Away]

That's right RENURPP, 15-20 years ago... National Jet I think was started by Jimmy-Bow ties' wife when they decided to "farm-out" some regional work, if I remember correctly. (She had her Baron parked in the hangars between what was Ansett Freight apron and their Engineering hangar) I do know that 4 Corners-ABC were silenced for many years over a program they had over it and some foreign pilots.
No-Pulse continued the downward trend when QF bought them out, afraid that Ansett would get their hands on them and expand their reach, then they used that vehicle (excuse the McGowan pun) in a rushed attempt to start a LCC named Pornstar, when they got wind of Spirit Airlines starting out of Avalon. Pornstar had their Media launch the day before Spirits!
... it goes on, suffice to say it may be Cobham now, then Network, then...

[RU/16]

Wedcue.........and the problem with cobham doing QFs regional work is......?
What exactly is so bad for the industry in this decision.....is Cobham not worthy?

[B772]

Is the real Qantas withdrawing from Tasmania ?

[Capt Claret]

National Jet I think was started by Jimmy-Bow ties' wife

Geez, I didn't know Jimmie Bow Tie was married to Warren Seymour! :oh:

[Warm Ballast]

QantasLink to introduce luxury flights into Hobart | Life and Lifestyle | Lifestyle and Living | | The Mercury (http://www.themercury.com.au/lifestyle/qantaslink-to-introduce-luxury-flights-into-hobart/story-fnj64obd-1226722371978)

QANTASLINK will offer an enhanced passenger experience for customers in and out of Tasmania next year, with the airline announcing upgraded Boeing 717 jets on all flights between Hobart and the mainland.

QantasLink executive manager John Gissing said the 110-seat jets, which will be based in Hobart and include a business and economy sections and in-flight entertainment for all passengers, will be used on Hobart-Sydney and Hobart-Melbourne flights from the middle of next year.

Mr Gissing said the jets would have market-leading seats, premium food and drinks and exceptional on-board service.

"We will also provide individual iPads for in-flight entertainment for all customers," he said.

"The continued investment in our fleet shows the commitment and confidence we have in the Australian domestic market and in particular to Tasmania."

The upgraded QantasLink Boeing 717 aircraft will be operated by Adelaide-based Cobham Aviation Services Australia.

Mr Gissing said Cobham would soon advertise for about 30 cabin crew and 15 pilots, all to be based in Hobart.

"Having these aircraft based in Hobart is great news for Tasmania," he said.

QantasLink is upgrading five B717s that will be introduced to the domestic fleet next year, initially on flights out of Canberra.

[astroboy55]

.is Cobham not worthy

No. not when they fly Qlink branded aircraft...but are NOT QLink. Jetconnnect ring any bells?

[Fuel-Off]

Careful Astroboy, better holster that bitter attitude. We all fly in the same sky, so play nice boys and girls.

Regarding the parallels you're drawing between Cobham/QLink and Jetconnect/Qantas isn't entirely parallel so to speak. The former is a contractor, the latter is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Qantas Group.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Buttscratcher]

National Jet started with the Moomba Basin contract they took from Lloyd. Something to do with Sherrard.... Least that's how I remember it
Pulse and Virgin were days away from falling in a hole before the Kiwoks finally killed the AA dog with fleas, blaming everyone but themselves
Pulse's 71s went to a Star livery, after other attempts at removing the cocky from the tail, then went to a NJS crewing company for the Rat fellows.

...... This was never a fluffy industry full of goodness and light.... Unless you worked for the big 2 before the war....and they don't exist anymore
It's caos out there, and that's the bed you young blokes made..... Thanks, but don't whinge about it 'cause its probably all your fault

[Chocks Away]

CC, yes Warren was the founder & CEO.
Anymore and I encroach on why QF legal silenced ABC's 4 Corners.

"Play-on is the call"

[Capt Claret]

Cobham/NJS have been flying QantasLink for as long as Sunnies & Eastern's have and have a 20+ year commercial relationship with QF. Not sure why this makes them unworthy?

[Capt_SNAFU]

Not unworthy just another step in the engagement of mainline. Everyone is expanding but us. That is the reality and we just have to suck it. Would be nice if the premium airline got premium cabin product. I'm sure all the pax on mainline 737s would like an Ipad or a like instead of a $%^&*&%ty little screen on the roof. I know the newer 737s screens.

[Buttscratcher]

Good call Fuel Off
This sounds like the 'they're taking our flying' argument from the protected 2, when the Bloodstock 72 appeared.
Eastern and Sunnys don't own the flying, and, in my view, Qlink is just a name given to any ol' Q regional aircraft Alan's mob owns
I could quote many similar setups worldwide. its like fleas arguing about who owns the dog.

[hotnhigh]

What a reaction to the debacle of replacing the 737 that overnighted in Hobart, less than a year ago, with an overnighting dash 8.:ugh::ugh:
The premium pax have left in droves to fly Virgin.
The smartest guys in the room strike again. :ugh:

[airdualbleedfault]

Funny how little attention /credence paid to Network.
12 jets, rumoured to be expanding to 17, contracts that do/will required A320 size aircraft and all 100% owned by QF.
Oh and I believe getting their RPT approval by years end.
Watch that space.....

[0tto]

airdualbleedfault Funny how little attention /credence paid to Network.

Network's aircraft will be painted in Qantaslink colours and become the jet operation "specialist" of Qantaslink. Their A320 fleet will expand and take on more RPT schedules. Eventually Network will take over some of the B717's flying. QantasLink will consolidate their dash 8 operation in Perth and moving their resources back to the east coast where it is better suited and the crew utilised more efficiently.

[Normasars]

Airdualbleed,

I stated this fact @ 9 months ago now, can't be bothered looking through my archives.

Network will be the growth vehicle for QF going forward, mark my words!

[airdualbleedfault]

Well they certainly are at the moment Norma, 2 a/c to (possible) 17 in 2 1/2 years is some growth

[dizzylizzy]

Oh please, the only ones bidding to avoid it were the old boilers who refused to embrace the technology. Sure it had teething problems to begin with (like all new developments) but overall it works great.

End of the day the ipads will work fine for the short sectors the 717 performs, the only challenge on the 767 was the long patterns it had projected before a restock (BNE/PER/BNE/PER) or (PER/BNE/DRW/BNE/PER).

[Icarus2001]

Their A320 fleet will expandExpand from how many airframes now?

[schlong hauler]

Does Cobham go through the annual IOSA audit process? Does it get audited under the Qlink AOC? How or what SMS are in place for what is effectively a labour contract company used by Qantas?
Anybody?

[Buttscratcher]

I'd say just as much Q audit as other Qs
....how much Q mainline audit do the Dash Qlink blokes get anyway? Just because Sun-East are now called Qlink, their own surveillance doesn't really suggest a real Q audit...... Or does it?
..... Maybe you would suggest that the Dash blokes audit those renegade Cobham fellas?

[newsensation]

As i understand it Cobham operate under their own management system with their own AOC, Qantas has little control over the operation, that said Qantaslink SMS from time to time Audits the operation. Qantas just supply the Aircraft and Qantaslink decide on the routes etc

[schlong hauler]

A quick check of the IOSA web page shows the neither Qlink or Cobham comply with IOSA or report to IOSA. That means that the jet operation is and will be operated to a standard where the recognised bench mark for auditing and operational safety standards is not audited by an IOSA representative. If Joe Punter buys a ticket on Virgin/Qantas/Jetstar then he knows these airlines meet the IOSA standards of operation and are audited on a regular basis, unlike Cobham. Will this become public knowledge and does CASA really care?

[Capt Claret]

A quick check of the IOSA web page shows the neither Qlink or Cobham comply with IOSA or report to IOSA. That means that the jet operation is and will be operated to a standard where the recognised bench mark for auditing and operational safety standards is not audited by an IOSA representative.

I wonder if both might be captured under the Qantas banner. I'd be surprised if QF just handed over the stencil for the roo on the tail, said "here ya go, paint yer tails and yer off", without any oversight. :hmm:

[Check_Thrust]

If Joe Punter buys a ticket on Virgin/Qantas/Jetstar then he knows these airlines meet the IOSA standards of operation and are audited on a regular basis, unlike Cobham.

Personally I'd be surprised if Joe Punter knew what an IOSA audit was or if his airline of choice on the day was IOSA compliant or not.

Aside from that I note that Air North, Alliance, Network, Skytrans, Skywest (Virgin Regional) and Tiger just to name a few off the top of my head are not listed as being IOSA audited. Does this concern you that these companies are not applying to be audited by IATA or is Cobham the only one that worries you due to their contract with Qantas?

And as Capt Claret said maybe Easterns/Sunstate come Qantaslink fall under the Qantas IOSA audit banner and this may also extend to the Cobham 717 operation aswell. However I do not have access to nor do I feel like applying for access to the Qantas IOSA report so I don't know if it does or not.

[Capn Bloggs]

A quick check of the IOSA web page shows the neither Qlink or Cobham comply with IOSA or report to IOSA.
A quick check of the IOSA web page shows Asiana is registered with IOSA.

IOSA = credibility ZERO.

Next, Shlong hauler...

[Potsie Weber]

Qantas IOSA Audit covers Qantas mainline only.

A quick check of the IOSA web page shows Asiana is registered with IOSA.

IOSA = credibility ZERO.

You obviously have no understanding of the IOSA program!

[KABOY]

A quick check of the IOSA web page shows Asiana is registered with IOSA.

IOSA = credibility ZERO.


IATA membership is not important right?

Your myopic view of aviation would go well in any charter outfit.

[Derfred]

Qantas just supply the Aircraft and Qantaslink decide on the routes etc

Wow, really? So the 737 pulls out and the 717 slides in just by pure coincidence! How lucky is that!

[desmotronic]

Its their train set if you dont like you know what to do.

[Dogman]

A few years ago i was crewing a flight PER-PHE-PER where we had a senior QF Captain (one with the oak leaves on his hat) jumpseating to Audit us on behalf of mainline.

It does happen!

[Capn Bloggs]

IATA membership is not important right?

Your myopic view of aviation would go well in any charter outfit.
Kaboom, I was merely responding to Schlong's unsubtle claim that Cobham is a danger to all and sundry because it is not IOSAd.

If such an "esteemed" program can let through a major international airline, it does call into question the validity of what it is doing. Or are you just going to ignore Asiana's stack as an aberration?

[aviator's_anonymous]

hasn't Qantas always used Qlink to grow routes? Utilise smaller aircraft like the Dash and 717s... test the market with cheaper operating costs, and when demand requires it, bring in the 737... Was the same back in the days when NationalJet operated the 146 as Qlink...

[CaptCloudbuster]

hasn't Qantas always used Qlink to grow routes?

Replacing a 737 with a 717 is a strange way to "grow". Fits in with the mantra of our Dear leaders though....

[travelator]

737s and 767s in the west now operating on routes developed by the 717.

The 717 cannot replace the 737-800, it is only suited for the thinner routes. Maybe the Canberra and Hobart routes can no longer support a 737 but are too much for a Dash. The 737-400s are tired and worn and unpleasant from a passenger perspective and the 800s are too big for some of these routes at certain times. The 717 fills the gap perfectly.

Not all decisions are made solely to screw mainline crew.

[PLovett]

Geez...there's some funny thinking going on here and it starts when people don't know the difference between a 717 branded QLink and a Dash 8 with the same branding. Its also not helped when people don't know that Qantas operates mainline, Jetstar and QLink into Hobart. Quite a mix.

They tried dropping mainline services and replacing with Jetstar and copped a pasting from business pax for their troubles so the 737 service was brought back at business travel times. They have introduced a Dash 8 service as well but not proving popular with the punters. Something about propellers and travel times I understand.

Now a 737 can't be supported by pax numbers to and from Tassie outside of peak travel times so why not replace the Dash 8 with a proven airframe for less than optimal pax numbers. There is a contractor with the right airframe and there are a limited number of extra airframes going cheap. Job jobbed, or hopefully so.

[Ka6crpe]

What routes are Cobham going to be taking over? And when does this happen?

[aviator's_anonymous]

Qantas are bringing 5 refurbished 717s. To my understanding, the first one is going to be Canberra based. Starting with CBR-BNE, and then eventually expanding to CBR-SYD, and CBR-MEL. They will slowly take over the 737-400's routes as they get retired out. It looks like this base has been established, Qantas will then base a 717 starting in mid 2014, doing HBA-MEL and HBA-SYD. I believe these will take over the Dash routes.

[Ka6crpe]

Thanks for that. It looks like I'll be SLF on Cobham on my future trips to Aus. :ok:

[Blitzkrieger]

I hope they can get enough people of the appropriate standard to fly them.

While it is a great place to work, and the aeroplane is certainly a cut above the rest. The company still has some work to do in relation to its staff. I am told there are numerous issues to be overcome, not least of which is the companies total lack of adherence to the contract. Some extremely unhappy people up front still.

[Blitzkrieger]

BTW, the sudden interest in Tazzie is more a move to give travellers an alternative to VA and props I think. Good news for the folks down there.

[hotnhigh]

Bne-cns and bne-tvl will also be in the sights of managers who like to shrink to grow.

[Blitzkrieger]

QANTAS seem serious about Tazzie.

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-and-tasmania-sign-a-4-35-million-tourism-deal

[Buckshot]

There is so much corporate spin behind these announcements. It's a shame the journalists don't scrutinise the history a bit more rather than just re-wording the company produced press releases. Perhaps if they had, the actual story might have read something like this:

Today Qantas announced further changes to its services operating in and out of Hobart to take effect from mid 2014.

The port has seen numerous changes in service type and equipment, particularly over the last 15 years, with the national carrier seemingly unable to settle on a consistent service type or product offering for the state. This has given rise to growing frustration from locals and tourists alike and calls from government and business for Qantas to offer increased accessibility.

The changes announced today by Qantas add to the many from the last decade or more. In the mid-1990s, Hobart was serviced by up to six daily services to the mainland using Boeing 767 and 737 jets. Later, these were complemented with the Qantas regional subsidiary Southern, who had a crew base in Launceston, with BAe 146 jets.

Major changes took place to services to Hobart in the early 2000s following Qantas' acquisition of Impulse Airlines and the launch in 2004 of low cost carrier Jetstar. This saw Qantas mainline exit the Hobart market completely and business groups in particular were upset with this decision. It came as a surprise given the then monopoly Qantas had on all Business Class and other high yield traffic that Qantas had at the time in Hobart.

Having established a Jetstar crew base in Hobart, Qantas announced only a short time after that base would be closed and that the aircraft would no longer overnight in Hobart. This led to the loss of several company jobs in Hobart and forced some employees to relocate their families as far away as Darwin.

With rival Virgin Australia's growing emphasis on the business market in recent years, Qantas decided to reintroduce mainline services to the capital city using Boeing 737 jets. Many loyal customers were confused, however, with the company's decision not to offer the same product as other City Flyer services despite the fact Hobart is a capital city.

Last year, Qantas announced further changes to its schedule and equipment. The mainline 737 would no longer overnight at Hobart and would instead be replaced by a Qantaslink Dash 8 turboprop aircraft with a capacity of only 74 seats. This came as a surprise to many customers who knew that, in a strong northerly headwind, the service to Melbourne would take around 2 hours' flight time. Many punters voted with their feet and switched their allegiance to Virgin.

Today's announcement sees the reintroduction of 717 jets to Hobart and the withdrawal, yet again, of Qantas mainline 737 jets. The 717 is the same type of aircraft previously operated by the Qantas owned Impulse Airlines and briefly by Jetstar. The difference, however, is that the operation of these services will be outsourced by Qantas to Cobham Aviation. Although painted in Qantas livery, and operated by staff wearing Qantas uniforms, the aircraft are not owned, operated or maintained by Qantas employees.

Cobham and Qantas have not yet provided any details of how many services will operate into Hobart. Government and business are concerned that the much smaller 717 aircraft may reduce the capacity being offered in to the sensitive market which is heavily reliant on tourism and freight capacity for its export businesses such as fresh seafood.

The lack of consistency of services by Qantas to Hobart and frequent capacity, product and schedule changes remain a concern for all travellers in the island state. Some have suggested this may be due to the lack of corporate memory that exists in managerial ranks in Qantas. Others believe that KPIs in Qantas are are heavily linked to manager bonuses. Whatever the case, Hobartians will be hoping that the latest changes by Qantas will finally offer what they have been demanding for a long time: a consistent and accessible service that connects to mainland ports.

[mustangranch]

Hi Buckshot,

Just FYI. Cobham pilots do not wear qantas uniforms.

I agree it has been a joke in tassi, but in all honesty, the 717 will suit the sector perfectly for size and speed.

Nonetheless, aviation is a fickle game, and no doubt, tassi will see changes again.

[Check_Thrust]

Although I agree with a few things in Buckshots post (especially regarding quality of journalism) there are a few items that I think are a bit out.

Yes, Cobham do operate and maintain the 717s, however the aircraft are still owned by Qantas.

As mentioned the schedule for the 717 out of Hobart has not been released as of yet so one can not accurately predict if there will be an increase or reduction to the amount of seats or freight capability to and from Hobart when the 717 is introduced to the route.

Having said that, based on the Department of Infrastructure's Domestic Airline Activity report for 2012 Hobart was the 9th busiest airport based on passenger movements with about 1.92 million passengers (for comparison interest 8th position went to Canberra with about 3.07 million and Adelaide 5th with 6.45 million), this only accounts for 1.7% of the national total of domestic pax movements so although Hobart is a capital city I don't know if it required a "City Flyer" based service on those numbers.

The report also states that the Hobart - Melbourne is the country's 10th Top Domestic Route with 1.24 million passengers travelling the route in 2012 with a total of 1.57 million seats being provided over 9072 flights. This equated to a load factor of 79.1%. The same route in 2011 saw 1.16 million passengers, 1.35 million seats on 8032 flights with a load factor of 85.8%. This shows that just because there are less seats available it does not necessarily mean there will be less passengers on the route, and the increased load factor shows that it could mean that better sized aircraft or a more appropriate amount of flights are being used/conducted on the route.

As mentioned before the frequency of operation has for the 717 has not been announced but based on the current schedule of Hobart to Melbourne there are 410 Qantas seats per weekday, 79.1% of that is 325 (rounded up) passengers per day, if the 717 was to directly replace the same flights it would provided 330 seats per day in the two class cabin configuration with a 98.48% load factor (I know that realistically this load factor would not eventuate but if it did it would be excellent aircraft utilisation would it not?).

Of interest the figures show that 2011 had a reduction on seats on that sector from 2010 resulting in better load factors and 2012 has seen an increase in seats with a reduction of load factor again.

All of the above mentioned stats are not solely based on Qantas alone but all movements to and from Hobart, therefore my assumptions for calculations have been based on the information provided on all operations and translated into the Qantas operation from there as I do not have access to Qantas operation only figures.

Check Thrust.

[Buttscratcher]

Funny, really, all the buzz about Cobham not being 'real QANTAS' and 'wow, if the public only knew the real story' kind of argument, but the same can be said for Eastern and Sunstate's Qlink and Southern before that (or any regional on the planet sporting the coadshare and colours of the bigger parent company.

There was an interesting drift at the beginning of this thread, though, reference Network. Have they received the RPT stamp yet? do they have red tails now also?

[Capn Bloggs]

do they have red tails now also?
No, it's spring here. A sea of green! :}

[bankrunner]

Funny, really, all the buzz about Cobham not being 'real QANTAS' and 'wow, if the public only knew the real story' kind of argument, but the same can be said for Eastern and Sunstate's Qlink and Southern before that (or any regional on the planet sporting the coadshare and colours of the bigger parent company.

Seeing as Qlink boarding passes all say either "OPERATED BY EASTERN" or "OPERATED BY SUNSTATE" in the service info field, it's not something the Rat's management have really tried to keep secret.

No doubt I'll also be seeing "OPERATED BY COBHAM" when I fly in and out of CB in the near future :ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

No doubt I'll also be seeing "OPERATED BY COBHAM" when I fly in and out of CB in the near future
Yes Bloggs, the last time I saw a Qlink 717 boarding pass, that's exactly what it said. Or was it "operated by National Jet"? Can't remember... :ok:

[Buttscratcher]

Yep no surprises there
Just like Air France's Paris to London City ... 'Operated by CityJet'
ANA Tokyo to Honolulu....'operated by Air Japan'
NorthWest LA to Vegas...'operated by Reno Airlines'
And if you purchased a QANTAS ticket to Berlin....'Operated by Emirates'
I sure don't have a problem with any of this, and I can't see why Cobham is any different.
I expect the traveling Joe may be pissed however paying a full QANTAS fare and getting dumped at the last minute to a ....now 'Operated by Jetstar'. Then again, that belongs in another thread whinge

[aviator's_anonymous]

No doubt I'll also be seeing "OPERATED BY COBHAM" when I fly in and out of CB in the near future

I think it says "Operated by National Jet Systems", which i beleive is the legal identity in which the AOC is registered under.

[low_earth_orbit]

Yes for full disclosure soon your ticket will have to read "OPERATED BY NATIONAL JET, CREWED BY COBHAM AND MAINTAINED BY JOHN HOLLAND AVIATION";)

[Capn Bloggs]

MAINTAINED BY JOHN HOLLAND AVIATION
There's no need to be silly now. :=

[mightyauster]

Qantas has previous form for screwing around Tasmanians and National Jet (Cobham).
Launceston has Australia's most expensive freight shed. It was originally built by National Jet at the behest of Qantas to set up an overnight base for the 146's. The Hangar was built and fitted out with all the good gear, LAMEs employed and relocated at great expense, only to be told by Qantas management after about two months of operation "oh we don't need that now....". Nice one.:rolleyes:

[Buttscratcher]

Oh? Good one! When was that?

[Mud Skipper]

Buttscatcher
And if you purchased a QANTAS ticket to Berlin....'Operated by Emirates'
I think you will find EK don't operate to Berlin, the Germans, as are many European countries, are concerned about possible predatory behavior.

And if you purchased a Delta ticket to Atlanta it was operated as Comair 5191.
And if you purchased a Continental ticket to Buffalo it was operated as Colgan 3407 etc.

You lose control of your product and it's only cheaper until you have an incident caused by pilots being forced to sleep on park benches and accepting the lowest possible standards.

Personally I prefer my family to fly on aircraft with two or more well rested, well paid and very well trained and tested pilots.:rolleyes:

[Buttscratcher]

Oh righteo then, whatever dude (......holy ****, spot the nerd, man! ) anyway, my point is the same, and that's the principal intent, however you care to serve it.

[PLovett]

Launceston has Australia's most expensive freight shed. It was originally built by National Jet at the behest of Qantas to set up an overnight base for the 146's. The Hangar was built and fitted out with all the good gear, LAMEs employed and relocated at great expense, only to be told by Qantas management after about two months of operation "oh we don't need that now....". Nice one.

Just to be pedantic, it was not a freight shed but a maintenance hanger. Now being put to good use by Sharp Airlines. Agreed about the great expense and good gear bit - even has a heated floor. Luxury.......if it is ever used. :ok:

[Kiwiconehead]

It was originally built by National Jet at the behest of Qantas to set up an overnight base for the 146's.

Pretty sure it was actually built by Southern Australia Airlines (and still paid for over a number of years)

Just to be pedantic, it was not a freight shed but a maintenance hanger. Now being put to good use by Sharp Airlines.

Yes, but it was a freight shed/baggage trolley store for quite some years before someone decided to put planes in it again.

[Capt Claret]

Southern may have bought/acquired it but they sure didn't commission or build it.

[Kiwiconehead]

Southern may have bought/acquired it but they sure didn't commission or build it.

Actually Launceston Airport built it and Southern signed a multi year lease on it. ;)

[Check_Thrust]

I see QF uniforms have been issued for the cobham guys?

Not for the pilots unless Qantas have switched to silver epaulettes and braid recently.

If you are referring to the cabin crew they have been wearing Qantas cabin crew outfits for quite some time.

[Capn Bloggs]

I see QF uniforms have been issued for the cobham guys?
Switch your eye system from greyscale to RBG colour, Poo. ;)

[The Professor]

Mud Skipper,

"And if you purchased a Delta ticket to Atlanta it was operated as Comair 5191.
And if you purchased a Continental ticket to Buffalo it was operated as Colgan 3407 etc.

Your implication is not supported by evidence. Both CO and DL have a significant accident history with DL particularly being singled out by the FAA for very poor CRM and insufficient crew training. In fact DL came close to losing its certificate in the good old days back when the pilots were highly paid AND well rested.

Your assertion does not hold water.

[Buttscratcher]

What Muds wrote was one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point was it even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone here is now dumber for having read it.

[Mud Skipper]

Buttscratcher, you need to read more. Get back to me in ten years after you have been about a while.

Professor, good to see you are still a company stooge.

[Trent 972]

Butts,At no point was it even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone here is now dumber for having read it.
Ah, perhaps you might wish to read between the lines a little bit and you may become a little bit brighter than your last post suggests.
Just to kick you off.
Comair Flight 5191 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_5191)
Colgan Air Flight 3407 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgan_Air_Flight_3407)

[Fool Sufferer]

The professor might care to read the NTSB report of Colgan Air 3407, and may then come to the realisation that Mud Skipper's assertion does indeed hold water.

An identified causal factor in the accident was the crew's commuting induced fatigue. 68% of Newark based Colgan pilots, including the two involved in the accident, were commuters. The reason for such a high proportion of commuters: the high cost of residing in the Newark area combined with the low wages company pilots received.

[Buttscratcher]

Over 30 years in the game, Muds, but good try
Look, I know it's not your fault..... When you join an Airline (let's say Qantas, AIr France or JAL at age 23 as a 747 SO ) they tell you that you are 'the best of the best' flying for the 'best and safest company in the world'. Pity it isn't strictly true though. If you go through life believing this hype, then that's sad.....but it's not your fault
In context, I was really hoping that you were not inferring that like the quoted US carriers, Cobham is unsafe and that you'd never put your family in their seats , and that only QF are worthy of owning 'our flying'.
I was really hoping you don't feel this way, but it's not your fault
Not that it matters, but no, I don't fly for Cobham