Does this exist?

[Unusual Attitude]

Thinking about purchasing another aircraft and to tick all the boxes it needs to be the following:-

- 4 seats so I can take the wife and kids away for odd weekends.
- On an LAA Permit so I can do my own work.
- Tailwheel / Vintage as I really enjoy these types most.
- Price ideally up to circa £40k....

Does such a thing exist? Cant seem to find anything ticking those boxes...

Regards

UA

[ifitaintboeing]

Auster.

ifitaint...

[Unusual Attitude]

I thought Austers only had 3 seats?

[Crash one]

Jodel, Maule, luscome,

[Unusual Attitude]

Jodel 1050 would indeed be one....

Maules are on a CofA and Luscombe is only 2 seats....

[Silvaire1]

How about a Stinson 108?

Not entirely sure of the UK permit status, but thought it might be worth a mention. I know there are some in the UK.

[Unusual Attitude]

Stinson 108 looks fantastic but alas its on a CofA.....

[Flyingmac]

Is this CofA or Permit?
PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions (http://www.planecheck.com/index.asp?ent=da&id=16281&cor=y)

Edit. Checked. Permit.

[Unusual Attitude]

Cant see a DH251 on G-Info but all the DR250's are CofA.....

[Flyingmac]

The 251 is the homebuilt 250.

[747 Classic man]

Have you considered a Cessna 195? !947 tail-dragger with 4 seat capacity and a nice big round iron engine. Can be sourced in the States, and a nice one will cost in the region of $70k. :O

[Fuji Abound]

SF 260 without doubt, superb

Fuji 180 - four seats to boot and lots of luggage room

You will struggle to find good examples of both, but they do exist and are for sale.

[Legalapproach]

- 4 seats so I can take the wife and kids away for odd weekends.
- On an LAA Permit so I can do my own work.
- Tailwheel / Vintage as I really enjoy these types most.
- Price ideally up to circa £40k....

I agree that it's superb but which of the above does the SF260 tick?

[Unusual Attitude]

SF260 is somewhat off the criteria but I already have a Cassutt for zooming around at 200+mph and I'm planning on keeping that!

This is a family barge I'm after for weekends away and for those lazy summer afternoons pootling around low and slow and visting local grass strips etc......(you can tell I've been flying a SuperCub of late!)

Fuji and C195 are both CofA and the Fuji is not really what I'm after, I was flying a G1000 C182T until recently and whilst its great as a tourer I didnt really enjoy actually flying it that much.

There must be something? Have to say Jodels dont realy do it for me but something like a 4 seat Luscombe on a permit would be perfect...

I shall keep searching.....

[Rod1]

The Jodel 1050, Auster + possibly the Jodel 140 (if you can get one for the price) are the only LAA approved aircraft that tick all the boxes.

Rod1

[austerwobbler]

My Auster j5g has four seats



Austerwobbler :ok:

[Noah Zark.]

Beagle Husky D5-180

[EDMJ]

Piper PA-14 Family Cruiser?
Piper PA-20 Pacer (or PA-22 with tailwheel conversion)?

[gasax]

The vast majority of these aricraft are not on a permit!

Pa20/22 and 14 probably should be - but are not. Ditto Stinsons. You might find a D140 right at the top (or possibly beyond this price range). The obvious answer is Auster. Most of the larger ones are at least 3 seats some are 4 - particularly the Lyco powered ones.

Start with the list in CAP747 for the A listed aircraft and then try and discover which types have been allowed to switch to an LAA permit rather than staying with a CAA CofA...

Would be handy if the LAa published a full listing of permit types but I do not think they do - only the homebuilt types with TADS and that is not complete.

[Blink182]

It is your requirement for 4 seats that really limits the choices........ realistically how many flights will you need four seater ?

[Unusual Attitude]

It is your requirement for 4 seats that really limits the choices........ realistically how many flights will you need four seater ?

Indeed, I know it limits the choice hence I'm rather stumped on options and asking for ideas here!

The whole need for 4 seats would be for family trips probably 2-3 times per month + the odd jolly flight with friends etc, I'd probably do 50-70hrs in it per year plus another 30-50hrs in my single seater. Renting isnt really an option at £170+ per hr and a typical min 3 hrs per day its away etc.

Rather liking the Auster the more I look at them, I had a share in a Tri Pacer for a couple of years and really enjoyed that and now also have access to a Supercub which I'm enjoying as I just find vintage types have far more character than modern Cessna's and Pipers.

I'm not in any rush so will keep an eye on the used Auster / Beagle market I think unless I stumble over something else.......

[Silvaire1]

If no Auster appears, you might consider an N-registered C of A type that is already in the UK, assuming you wouldn't want an importation project. This would potentially open up choice of aircraft types. Maintenance on N-register is very unlike that on EASA registers and can be simple, I believe even in the UK if you make good contacts.

Types that come to mind on that basis, other than the Family Cruiser, Pacer and Stinsons already mentioned, and subject to availability (as the saying goes)...

Cessna 170 (the practical choice)
Luscombe 11A Silvaire Sedan
Taylorcraft Model 15 Sedan
Aeronca 15AC Sedan
Fairchild 24 (now we're getting a bit exotic :) )

Etc.

Best of luck

[irish seaplane]

I am selling a PA22-160 Pacer which would surely tick a lot of boxes....It was on a UK reg previously so it may be a permit candidate.

Just FYI...

[piperboy84]

Cessna 170and the pipers are 150/160hp think I would want at least 180 for getting in and out of grass strips in a four seater with the family on board

[mmgreve]

What you need is a KZ VII !

Vintage, 4 seats, tailwheel, easy to work on, well within budget

Unlike your regalar cub, it is rare enough to attract attention but is extremely well supported by the Danish LAA (which is organised around the KZ Club). It will get in and out of any field you can stick a Super Cub in, and with more load too.

There is only one in the UK, but the good news is that I have it for sale :)

Send me a PM, for more info via email/phone
www.kz-vii.co.uk (http://www.kz-vii.co.uk)

[Genghis the Engineer]

They're pretty rare, but a Cozy IV would tick all the boxes I think?

There was an out of permit Cozy Classic (the 3-seat version) on AFORS last year - no idea if it's still for sale, and if so, whether it's convertible reasonably easily to the 4-seat Cozy IV standard?



Regarding the Stinson - I have one on a private CofA (currently lapsed, and for sale due to a combination of an unidentified engine problem, and a fallen-apart syndicate); about 780lb payload, with a small baggage compartment. It's most of the way to a PtF aeroplane in that you can do most work yourself, but it does need a CofA annual which is pricey - on the other hand you can take it night (which is fine) or IMC (which I'd not make a habit of). I asked a couple of years ago about getting it onto an LAA permit but got the firm answer "if it can have a CofA it must have a CofA", which I think is still broadly CAA policy.

Not vintage, but I was very impressed with the Jabiru J430 when I got to fly one a bit - ticks all your other boxes (PtF, 4 seats, owner maintenance...) Payload is okay, rather than good - but that's true of most 4-seaters.

Ditto Wassmer Wa51 - there was one advertised for sale out of Humberside not long ago.

G

[EDMJ]

What you need is a KZ VII !

So do I, had a ride in one (OY-DSB) many years ago :)

Some people say a KZ-VII won't get off the ground with all seats occupied?

.. men hvis jeg havde pengene, så ville jeg købe én...

[mmgreve]

well...not many 4 seaters will take off with 4 builders and full fuel from 200m, and neither will the KZ VII. :)

With kids in the back and a little more room, it's no issue though.

[foxmoth]

What you really need is one of these https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dH+foxmoth&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=d1U8UrCUMIWb0AWvsIGoDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=672&dpr=1#biv=i%7C14%3Bd%7CQN2hM9EItGOFhM%3A FIVE seats and gets airborne pretty smart ish fully loaded - I know, I have done it!

[piperboy84]

4 seats,
good stol
180 hp FP or CS your choice
economical
lands anywhere
taildragger
good factory support
build like a brick sh&% house
appx. 950lbs useful load
73 USG tanks

There is only one that fits the bill !!!

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?s-type=aircraft&make=Maule&model=MX-7-180&s-seq=2&s-lvl=2

[Genghis the Engineer]

What you really need is one of these https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dH+foxmoth&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=d1U8UrCUMIWb0AWvsIGoDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=672&dpr=1#biv=i%7C14%3Bd%7CQN2hM9EItGOFhM%3A FIVE seats and gets airborne pretty smart ish fully loaded - I know, I have done it!

Or I suppose...

GINFO Search Results Summary | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=Jackaroo)

G

[Unusual Attitude]

Hmmmm, thinking thoses last two might stretch the budget somewhat!!!

[Maoraigh1]

I've got AOEX and ANZT in my log book from my PPL at Thruxton in 1964.
I don't remember them as load carriers - climb with just two heavyish guys was not great. Cruising speed?? Following the railway Shoreham - Portsmouth on my solo QCC in ZT, with a headwind, first an engine, then a second engine, then a coal wagon, then more wagons, appeared under the nose. Always used grass, never hard runway.