Enroute Instrument Rating update?

[Odai]

Hello,

Does anyone know what the latest is on the possible implementation of the EASA EIR?

I've had a look myself, and as far as I can tell EASA have now drafted an 'opinion' and this needs to go to the EC to make it law. If I've understood correctly, the latest should be in one of these documents, but there's an absurd amount to go through. :p

http://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regcomitology/index.cfm?do=search.result&page=1

Any chance there's been an update published by the GA community at all?

Thanks

Odai.

[David Roberts]

The EASA Opinion on the IR and EIR was discussed at the EASA Committee (comitology process, all member states, political process, not EASA management) in July and there were no objections as far as we can tell from the limited-content minutes and from feedback from certain attendees. The next and hopefully final stage will be a vote in that committee during the next meeting on 16 to 18 October 2013. If passed, the rules will then be published in the Official Journal of the EU and the likely implementation date will run from sometime in Q1/2014.

[BillieBob]

Doesn't it have to go for a vote in the TRAN Committee?

[Odai]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I can't find any update regarding this since the set date for the scheduled vote.

I'm aware of the decision that came out with regards to allowing the UK CAA to retain the IMC rating until at least 2019, but nothing on the proposed EIR or CBM IR. Does anyone else know what has been decided at all?

[bookworm]

The EIR and CBM IR were part of the same package that the UK CAA wrote about regarding the IMCR. It all passed in the EASA Committee a couple of weeks ago. It now goes off for translation and for scrutiny in EU parliament, and should get published as law early next year.

[Odai]

Awesome, thanks for the clarification!

[Captain Stravaigin]

:\ (my message is apparently too short - I thought brevity was the essence of effective communication?)

[bookworm]

Published today

COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 245/2014 of 13 March 2014 amending Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 of 3 November 2011 laying down technical requirements and administrative procedures related to civil aviation aircrew (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2014:074:0033:0057:EN:PDF)

[hegemon88]

And coming on the day when I am put forward for the IMCr test, so all I need to do now is pass and then wait and see which school offers the EIR training first :D

[bookworm]

Do the IMC rating, get some practical instrument time as PIC with it, and then do the CBM IR. It's pointless to mess around maintaining two ratings to offer limited privileges when you have the skills to get the IR.

[Pace]

BookWorm

Surely he only needs the IMCR and EIR and Bingo he effectively has the IR in UK airspace why bother with the IR?
He automatically gets the EIR on the back of his IMCR so quids in by just getting the IMCR and having almost all the privileges of a full IR in the UK.

Pace

[BEagle]

Pace wrote:

He automatically gets the EIR on the back of his IMCR....

He most certainly does not!

As bookworm stated, for a UK pilot with an IR(R), it would be rather pointless to include the EIR in the licence when, with little extra effort, the IR(R) may be converted to a C-bM IR. The pilot simply needs to gain additional instrument flight time as PIC of aeroplanes, to take the 'ATO assessment' (for which purpose any sensible ATO will merely use an IR(R) revalidation proficiency check), to pass the theory exam(s) - which will be the same for the EIR as for the C-bM IR - to take a minimum of another 10 hrs instrument flight training and to pass the C-bM IR Skill Test.

[VORTIME]

Guys, do EASA PPL holders with IR(R) really get a free europe wide EIR?

Now, that's exciting!

VT

[englishal]

Could I do the cbm IR in my plane (N reg but with DfT permission)? Can I use foggles or do we need to erect an elaborate array of screens?

TIA

[BEagle]

VORTIME asked: Guys, do EASA PPL holders with IR(R) really get a free europe wide EIR?

Absolutely not. The IR(R) and EIR are completely different and have no connection with each other.

Who has originated this stupid, 100% incorrect rumour?

[BARThompson]

Any informed guesses on when the first ATO might be offering the reduced TK course?

[lasseb]

Does anyone know where to find the (now reduced) syllabus for the IR TK?
In the original proposal, there was an exhaustive list of all learning objectives for the old IR, compared with a proposal for a new and reduced one for CB-IR and EIR. But where is this list in the EASA rules?

[Red Chilli]

Hi Pace - that's a strange comment, I thought we clarified all this last week in our discussion?

The EIR has NOTHING to do with the IMC which is now known as an IR(R). It is an entirely SEPARATE rating covering different things (mainly airways).

The EIR is Europe wide.

The CBM/IR is Europe wide.

The IR/R (was IMC) is UK only.

They are 3 different things and the only automatic right is that your IMC has a new name - that's it.

Cheers.

[bookworm]

Does anyone know where to find the (now reduced) syllabus for the IR TK?
In the original proposal, there was an exhaustive list of all learning objectives for the old IR, compared with a proposal for a new and reduced one for CB-IR and EIR. But where is this list in the EASA rules?

EASA does not publish the AMC until the rule is published, so you can expect the AMC soon. I would anticipate few changes to the LOs after the CRD (http://www.easa.europa.eu/rulemaking/docs/crd/2012/CRD%202011-16.pdf).

[lasseb]

Is the AMC really where the TK syllabus is posted? I never understood this.
The problem is that AMC is not a law, and many discrepancies exists between FCL and AMC .
As an example, if you look at the current valid AMC, it lists that both AGK and VRF-COM is a subject required for the IR. But in the FCL those are not listed as required subjects. Also the AMC states that the syllabus for those subjects that are the same for ATPL and IR (like MET,HPL,INS etc) are exactly a match, and that is definitely not the case in the "real" world, and was never the case under JAR.
The FCL also clearly states that if there is a difference between the AMC and the FCL, the FCL has precedence. So how can we ever trust what is in AMC.

In total I'm quite confused :/

[citabria06g]

Couple of questions regarding the TK, for those in the know:

1) Would it be correct to say: once the syllabus is published, CAA will develop exams, only then will training providers offer courses for the EIR / CBM-IR. Can't see the likes of Bristol or CATS offering a course, without knowing what the end target looks like.

2) The publication linked above makes a reference to ORA.ATO.305, which mandates minimum 10% classroom time. This means at least 8 hours. If and when a course is offered by Bristol/CATS, are we likely to see a distance learning + brushup session format like the one currently in place for ATPL exams?

3) I read in another post that the CBM-IR can only be attached to a PPL or CPL. I wonder what is the justification for this, since EASA insist it's a fully ICAO compliant IR. If one were to complete the ATPL TK (which gives full credit for the EIR/CBM theory as per publication above), then add EIR and CBM ratings to licence, can you then attach the CBM to an ATPL later on?
I know, some will say: if you're going to take the old-style ATPL theory, what's the point, just take the old IR and be done with it. My question comes from the perspective of a plain-vanilla PPL who at the moment isn't interested in airlines, so would be happy to progress via EIR first and CBM later, but would like to keep his options open for the future. Would hate to be in a dead-end 3 years down the line, aiming for ATPL and having to take an IR all over again.

[MrAverage]

Earlier this year I saw a table somewhere, I think within the proposals for the CBM/IR, that said European CPL holders would be exempt from taking the written exams for the CBM/IR. Was I dreaming, or has that just not been included in the amended regulation?

[lasseb]

The CAA does not state if an exams ready or not. They must follow the EASA rules, so pr definition this exam is ready now. However, since the CAA approves the training manual for every ATO, they can just delay the approval until they are ready with the exams.

I know of schools (in DK) that are in the progress of developing the 8 hour DL course. They only wait for the TK to be announced, before finalizing the papers.

MrAvarage ->
I do not see how a CPL rating would qualify you for IR TK. CPL is strictly VFR.

[MrAverage]

I was surprised to see the statement myself but assumed that perhaps a pass in the old UK CPL writtens were as good as the seven IR exams.

[MrAverage]

In fact they used to be before Europe interfered.

[bookworm]

1) Would it be correct to say: once the syllabus is published, CAA will develop exams, only then will training providers offer courses for the EIR / CBM-IR. Can't see the likes of Bristol or CATS offering a course, without knowing what the end target looks like.

EASA keeps a European central question bank. The questions are likely to be a subset of the current IR questions (just as the LOs are a subset of the current LOs). Give them a few months.

2) The publication linked above makes a reference to ORA.ATO.305, which mandates minimum 10% classroom time. This means at least 8 hours. If and when a course is offered by Bristol/CATS, are we likely to see a distance learning + brushup session format like the one currently in place for ATPL exams?

Can't see why not, but you'll have to ask Bristol and CATS.

3) I read in another post that the CBM-IR can only be attached to a PPL or CPL. I wonder what is the justification for this, since EASA insist it's a fully ICAO compliant IR. If one were to complete the ATPL TK (which gives full credit for the EIR/CBM theory as per publication above), then add EIR and CBM ratings to licence, can you then attach the CBM to an ATPL later on?

The CBM-IR is simply another syllabus for the modular IR, set out in App 6 of Part-FCL. There is no limitation on how this modular IR can subsequently be used to acquire other qualifications but an ATPL applicant must have completed the ATPL TK. You don't normally talk about "attaching" an IR to an ATPL, because an IR is a pre-requisite for an ATPL.

[Level Attitude]

The CBM-IR is simply another syllabus for the modular IR, set out in App 6 of Part-FCL. There is no limitation on how this modular IR can subsequently be used to acquire other qualifications but an ATPL applicant must have completed the ATPL TK. You don't normally talk about "attaching" an IR to an ATPL, because an IR is a pre-requisite for an ATPL.I cannot remember. Is valid ATPL TK a requirement to do a Type Rating course?

Could it legally be possible for someone to co-pilot a Pax Carrying Jet and only take the ATPL TK exams if, later, they actually wanted an ATPL? Of course, in practice, would airlines employ such a First Officer?

[MrAverage]

Found it:

http://www.pplir.org/images/stories/pplir_files/GA_IR_v2.1.pdf

On page 12 it shows a CPL holder can bypass the writtens.

[BillieBob]

I cannot remember. Is valid ATPL TK a requirement to do a Type Rating course?It is a pre-requisite for a first multi-pilot type rating course (FCL.720.A(d)(3))

[bookworm]

On page 12 it shows a CPL holder can bypass the writtens.

It's not correct.

[BEagle]

The Aircrew Regulation amendment came into law at midnight yesterday; EASA has now released the Explanatory Note at https://www.easa.europa.eu/agency-measures/docs/agency-decisions/2014/2014-022-R/Explanatory%20note%20to%20ED%20Decision%202014-022-R.pdf and the amendments to the Acceptable Means of Compliance and Guidance Material (AMC & GM) at https://www.easa.europa.eu/agency-measures/docs/agency-decisions/2014/2014-022-R/Annex%20to%20ED%20Decision%202014-022-R.pdf.

This should now enable ATOs to develop suitable C-bM IR and EIR courses.

[cessnapete]

Im sure the 2015 date won't be met. With many hundreds of FAA IR pilots in EASAland, there won't be enough Examiners to test when the inevitable last minute sylabus/paperwork /application forms are issued by EASA to the reduced number of ATOs then in existence..