An IFR quandary

[piperboy84]

I have been a VFR pilot for 20 years with about 600 hours with absolutely no aspirations of becoming anything other than a fair-weather duffer faffing around in my spamcan, however I decided early this year to become a “safer” fair weather duffer by trying for my instrument ticket. My sole intent for doing this is was to improve my odds of survival if I ever get into IMC by mistake. Four months ago I attended a 3 day crash course Instrument Ground school at an FBO then took the official FAA written test receiving a passing score of 85%. I decided to commence the flying part of the ticket starting this month, however knowing that passing the written was a complete fluke where a healthy portion of the answers I chose involved guessing at the multiple choice questions I thought I better really learn the subject(s) properly prior to flying. So over the last 3 months I have spent up to 8 hours a day reading and re reading what seems like every training book written on the subject and buying and using both MS FSX, RantXL and ASA instrument prep software which has study modules and the simulated Instrument Written tests just like the one I officially “passed”.

After 3 months of daily reading, studying and repeatedly retaking the written ASA test I have come to the definitive conclusion that my old noggins just cannot grasp the subject in general and VOR,ADF, holding patterns and weather in particular, in fact not only do I not grasp it I don’t have a damned clue, during the hundreds of simulated ASA tests I very rarely get above the passing grade and have decided this IMC rating just isn’t for me.

So here is the question, Do I just forget about trying to be safer pilot and stay a VFR duffer with an extreme phobia of stumbling into weather, or do I go to an instructor and say “here’s the deal mate I want to be trained on how to get out of the ****, I don’t give a rats ass about how an ADF or RMI works, could not give a monkeys about the technical differences between an LDA and a SDF or what fix I can substitute for a knackered Outer Marker and it is completely beyond me why I need to know the height differential of the tropopause over the equator versus the poles , so what I would like to do is have you fly with me into IMC and show me how to get out if it, If it takes 1 hour, fine, if it takes a one hundred hours so be it”

Any suggestions/thoughts/comments

[soaringhigh650]

Do I just forget about trying to be safer pilot and stay a VFR duffer with an extreme phobia of stumbling into weather

Given what I've just read - and if you've tried a few flight schools and you're really struggling on IFR theory and practice, then I guess the answer to the above is yeah. Sorry. I think some people have to come to grips that they just ain't cut out to do it!

On extreme phobias you can manage them better by flying more with other more experienced people, VFR and IFR, so that you can understand the weather better in their decision making 'fly or no-fly' process as well as understanding the objective risk of entering IMC better. If you feel your phobias are unmanageable and you want to help it you can also try taking up psychotherapy.

[Saratogapp]

Hey PB - what a great post, and right from the heart!

One of the most difficult things that I have ever achieved was to get a proper instrument rating. I managed this when I was at the top of my game and I was about 40 years old and flying frequently. The second hardest thing that I have ever subjected myself to, was to remain current by subjecting myself to a serious re-test every year. When you are flying regularly, then it's reasonably easy to remain competent but there came a time when I decided that the practice and the cost to renew just didn't add up so I dropped it and reverted to being a VFR pilot.

If you can master the intercepts and sector entries, it's all wonderful practice and it sure as hell makes you an accurate pilot but it doesn't make you a smarter pilot. To be areal IFR pilot you have to understand the whole enchilada in a practical sense but you probably don't need to understand how the RMI "ticks"

In your current condition, I would recommend that unless you want the whole, complete and practical understanding of IFR, then stick with your current qualifications AND retain your absolute respect for the weather.

[Flyingmac]

so what I would like to do is have you fly with me into IMC and show me how to get out if it


Wasn't that covered in your initial training?

[piperboy84]

Wasn't that covered in your initial training?

many many moons ago

[Flyingmac]

Here's a nice clip to calm your nerves. 178 Seconds To Live - YouTube On second thoughts. Don't watch it.

[worrab]

Is your aim to fly IFR or is it to get out of inadvertant IMC safely? It sounds like you want the latter - which is a skill that an FI should be able to teach you reasonably quickly.

[BackPacker]

What you might want to do is find the UK IMC rating syllabus. There should be official documentation on the UK CAA website, and there are books on the subject as well, typically available from places like afeonline.co.uk.

You then take this documentation, shove it into your instructors face and tell him "this is what I want to do". Forget about the exam, just make sure your flying is up to UK IMC standards.

The UK IMC is to a very large extent what you're looking for. It doesn't do a lot with regards to take-off minima, SIDs and that sort of stuff, but it does teach you how to fly on instruments when you get into cloud en-route. Including partial panel, upset recover and partial panel upset recovery. Obviously it covers radio navigation. And it covers precision and non-precision approaches to a runway, either to land or as a cloudbreak procedure so you can continue VFR below the clouds.

In the UK, it gives you the privilege to fly IFR outside controlled airspace, and in class D. But it doesn't allow you to fly airways, and you also do not have to learn about high performance/high altitude stuff, or weird weather patterns near the equator or the poles.

There are pilots who use their IMC rating on a daily basis, but for most pilots it's a "get out of jail for free" rating. And that's exactly what you seem to be looking for.

The UK IMC rating is only legal in the UK, and that's the only place where you can do the official training and exam. But any IR instructor should be able to teach you the syllabus unofficially, and the skills you gain are applicable worldwide. Oh, and the training is 15 hours vs. 40 (or 45?) for the full IR.

[piperboy84]

re: 178 seconds

I shared an office with a guy who was a real type A personality, he managed to get it knocked out in half that time, and took a bunch of folks with him.

Untitled Page (http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20030630X00971&ntsbno=LAX03FA182&akey=1)

[mad_jock]

mate what you need is a straight talking no nonsense instructor who speaks the same lingo as yourself.

I would recommend trying to find Kevin Rowell where ever he is training these days.

A straight talking Macum who knows what he is talking about.

The stuff isn't that difficult to be honest after a few rules of thumb and someone point out the bleeding obvious.

[dont overfil]

Just like air law the theory makes little sense until you start to use it. Trying to practise flying IMC whether on a computer or for real is hopeless without proper instruction.

Being able to legally fly IMC changes the way you plan and execute your trips. It results in a huge boost to your confidence and a lot less cancelled trips.

When you are at home your local friendly airfield;) can do IMC training. The guys at Cabro in Aberdeen may be able to do your FAA IR.

D.O.

[mad_jock]

try getting a copy of rant XL.

Its a self contained course in IFR flying and introduces you to the various Nav aids and how to use them

[Lagentium]

I think Kevin Rowell is instructing at Advanced Flight Training based at Sherburn, I'm getting towards the end of the IMC Rating syllabus and can recommend it 100%, as it has improved my discipline when flying, I may never use it in anger, but I prefer to do it rather than not. Straight and level is not a problem as long as your scan is upto scratch, and you are current. I think an average pilot with a lot of currency is better than a brilliant pilot with non.

Cheers, Jim:ok:

[thing]

You don't do any of that weird stuff you've mentioned in the UK IMCr. I did the IMCr and I'm a thicko. If I can do it anyone can. I think I've mentioned it before but I actually like flying on intruments, I find it very relaxing.

[gemma10]

Thing "I find it very relaxing". You must be the only one matey. Did mine two years ago and it was all in cloud to Southend and back home. I was absolutely knackered, and very grateful the examiner was sitting in P2. All the examiner said was we were in ideal IMC conditions.

[TheiC]

Piperboy,

You have a private message.

[thing]

But that's an exam situation. You don't actually fly somewhere IFR recovering from partial panel unusual position recovery all the time while trying to get established in an NDB hold with a 500kt crosswind and tornadoes...:).

Get yourself in some nice clag, get settled down on the dials without someone bleating in your ear and I bet you would find it enjoyable. It's very satisfying to take off from somewhere, go IMC at 1,000', fly for an hour and come out the other end somewhere completely different without seeing a thing the whole way apart from departure and arrival.

[dont overfil]

Funny thing is you spend 30 minutes in IMC with your instructor, keeping accurate height and heading then he says take off the hood and take a rest. Within two minutes height and heading have gone to pieces.

D.O.

[140KIAS]

DO - PB lives in Angus, I hope you really meant your 2nd nearest local friendly airfield.:{

[funfly]

I once found myself in a 178 second situation. Fortunately the white-out cleared after about 60 seconds but I really was half way there - ground was close and the angle I was at - well.
Did my IMC straight away.
It's not the technical stuff that is important its the flying on instruments bit that will help you, certainly situation awareness when all you can see is the instruments (sometimes in training not all of them) made me a better flyer.
And if the worst came to the worst and although you might not be 'professional' at it, you can always get to an airfield guided by a controller.
It was actually good fun - looking back, but the exam did make me sweat.

[sapperkenno]

So you have a FAA pilot certificate and want an instrument rating, or a CAA/EASA licence and want a IMCr/IR(R)? The latter you can get via a simple (at a cost) paperwork exercise if you have the former.

There's nothing wrong with having a phobia of flying into weather that you can't handle, and at least you're honest with your assessment of your current skill level. The technical aspects you would probably pick up with a bit of groundschool (just having someone explain it to you in a different way might help), and the flying aspect just involves flying accurately to a point where you still have spare mental capacity to do all the other stuff - something that takes practice and I'm sure you'll pick up eventually. If it's taking every ounce of your skill to only just fly accurately, then it just comes down to you needing practice, and the guidance of a good instructor to analyse if/where you're going wrong.

Think back to when you learned to fly... It was all taught in baby steps, and now you have a licence. Surely you didn't just teach yourself, and go it alone. Same thing goes with the instrument stuff. Even though it is essentially just "flying" in another form, it does need some thought and quality tuition to give yourself a fighting chance of learning and understanding it all.

I'd say rather than accept the "here's the deal, I essentially want an easy ride and to not have to put too much work into getting an instrument ticket yadda yadda..." philosophy just because you screwed up a few written test questions, be tough on yourself, find a good school/instructor and work hard to get your rating.

I failed my FAA instrument written first time round, but now I'm a CFII. Go figure. So don't give up, and don't accept anything less than that end result of being rated.

[custardpsc]

Do the IMC, you are who it was invented for. Its a mile apart from the faa ir, which is not what you need right now on a number of levels

[stickandrudderman]

I concur. Do the IMC.
I also concur with Thing; I quite like flying on instruments, although my IMC is currently lapsed but soon to be re-instated.
I especially used to like the partial panel bit; one less instrument to worry about!

[Ty-Fry-Typhoon]

Read up everything on Instrument Flying, watched videos etc prior to my MEIR and to be honest I didn't quite get what was being said. Then I did the course, the instructor explained it, we flew it and it all made sense!
Try it, let's face it, you have nothing to loose and lots to gain.
Sappakeno is spot on!

[pploony]

Kevin Rowell is indeed at Sherburn, and is a very good, patient guy. I have renewed my IMC with him several times. No one better in the north to do the IMC course with, though that said, he is always very busy with the Leeds University students there.

[Saratogapp]

Stic&RM, like you, I'm no longer current but I will get back into it again soon. When I was at the top of my game, I ALWAYS put in an IFR plan even with 8/8 of blue. ATC seem to give you preference and strangely enough, I flew many hours in the cruise IFR, but when you start your descent to your destination, it's amazing how frequently you break out and get visual well before you need to get to your sector entry.

Point is, only seldom have I had to fly the entire approach. Maybe not "seldom" but it's spooky how most of my IFR flights have concluded in VMC.