Falling into line

[RTN11]

I've recently started instructing part time at a local flying club, this will be the 6th club I've worked at.

Yet again I'm up against a school that wants to operate a PA38 (or PA28 or C172 or C152) as if it is a large airliner.

The standard practice is to hold the poor thing on the ground until you reach 65kts (which seems to be the golden speed for all the aircraft despite the fact that they are completely different!) and then heave it into the air and feel the nosewheel wobble with protest as you finally climb away.

The next piece of nonsense comes in when coming into land with circuits so wide you could log it as cross country time, and adding so many extra margins to the speed that you're pretty much at best endurance cruise speed.

The last annoying thing is using arbitrary flap settings, like using flap 1 for take off in a PA28 despite there being no performance data in the POH, and same with landing with flap 2, or landing with flap 1 in the PA38.

There are three full time instructors plus the CFI at this school who all conform on this, and I'm just the part time guy at the weekend, and feel like the only one who's read the POH for take off and landing speeds.

What can I do about this? I don't feel like I'm in a position to go in preaching about using the proper speeds, as I know I will be met with the usual nonsense about it being safer to come in 15 knots too fast on a long runway. 30% of the schools I have taught at teach these nonsense procedures, and up until now I have always conformed, although begrudgingly.

I don't want to confuse the students by teaching them the proper way, as it would only be put down by the full time guys. Perhaps it's best to just walk away from this school and instruct elsewhere?

[foxmoth]

I don't want to confuse the students by teaching them the proper way, as it would only be put down by the full time guys. Perhaps it's best to just walk away from this school and instruct elsewhere?

Personally I am a great believer in standardisation in teaching, but like you don't think I could teach at a School like this, I would initially have a chat with the CFI and see if he CAN be brought round on at least enough points to keep you happy, have the POH info to hand to back up your argument, but at the end of the day I suspect it will be a case of leaving and finding a school that teaches properly, good luck:ok:

n.b. let me know where it is so I can make a point of avoiding it!:}

[Cobalt]

I did myFI rating in the PA28. Ashen I started instructing (at the school school I did my rating) i would also teach flying the C152, so I got a briefing on the speeds and configurations to teach and went out to practice a bit on my own, so I would not have my first students pay for me learning to fly it.

I really struggled to land it nicely.

Frustrated, I went back in, got out he POH, and noticed that the recommended speeds were a good 10 knots slower than the standard speeds we used. I went up again, and the next two landings were perfect.

Discussing my experience with the CFI, the rationale given was that approaching these poor things at 65kt is safer.

There is an old saying in aviation: if your instructor tells you to paint your balls blue, you don't ask why, but you ask which shade and get out the colour chart.

[foxmoth]

There is an old saying in aviation: if your instructor tells you to paint your balls blue, you don't ask why, but you ask which shade and get out the colour chart.

Cobalt, I suspect I have been flying and instructing a few years longer than you - never heard this particular saying, though it is similar to a few Service sayings. Certainly disagree with it!
As a student outside the commercial/military system YOU are the customer and if you disagree with the way you are being taught, because of advice on teaching methods or any other reason YOU choose, you do NOT get out the colour chart - you take your custom elsewhere.
As an instructor, then, yes, if I NEED the job I would probably get the chart out - but then be looking to move somewhere that used the shades of blue that I like myself!:rolleyes:

[RTN11]

Personally I am a great believer in standardisation in teaching, but like you don't think I could teach at a School like this

This is the dilemma I'm facing, I'm all for standardisation, and in my airline day job I understand and follow the SOPs with no issue. But this school (frankly as many seem to) are operating the aircraft in a way it was never really designed to, and the students suffer when they go to a more realistic airfield. This airport just happens to have a 2Km runway, so no issues with getting it down, but when the students get a licence they will firmly believe that a PA28 needs at least 1200m to land, and will think it's a useless aircraft, when if operated correctly 600m is more than enough.

There is an old saying in aviation: if your instructor tells you to paint your balls blue, you don't ask why, but you ask which shade and get out the colour chart

Back when I was a student I was probably of this type :}. Fortunately so far I've mostly done trial lessons, but when I do end up with a student for circuits or whatever, and I ask them why they decide to use only 2/3 of the available flap for landing, or to add 15kts to the required approach speed, the uniform response is "because my instructor told me to". Absolutely no sign of familiarity with the POH, or in some cases what the POH even is or looks like or where to find it. Frightening stuff from students I've been asked to assess for solo.

[Cobalt]

As an instructor, then, yes, if I NEED the job I would probably get the chart out - but then be looking to move somewhere that used the shades of blue that I like myself!

Easier said than done. I am currently learning to fly a DA42 with G1000, and I have to do all sorts of checks that are, from best to worse, superfluous, silly, and sometimes downright problematic, and clearly are required because the guys who wrote the checklist had no clue. For example, I have to do the classic analog CDI needle deflection checks (5 right - half scale - 10 right - full scale etc). On a G1000, the only sensible VOR check is, after the ident, to compare the bearing to the beacon with the GPS direct bearing; everything from the bearing onwards is digital so not subject to any deterioration over time, adjustment errors etc you find in analog systems.

Do I now
(A) argue
(B) go elsewhere, given elsewhere is 2 hours extra drive each way
(C) grit my teeth and spend 5 minutes following stupid SOP

I started down (a) but quickly caught myself...

[Heston]

There is an old saying in aviation: if your instructor tells you to paint your
balls blue, you don't ask why, but you ask which shade and get out the colour
chart.

Is that why your username is Cobalt? :)

[Cobalt]

Is that why your username is Cobalt? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

It's a looooong story.........but yes. Liked that particular shade. ;)