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good finish
3rd Sep 2013, 22:13
Hello
I have a GRP/rotax aeroplane which I refuel outside using ordinary petrol station unleaded.
I have a plastic funnel with a metal gauze filter into which I pour direct from a plastic 20litre can.
Whilst I have been doing this for sometime without any problems someone has told me this practice is dangerous due to a static build up risk although they were not aware of any actual incidents
Should I be concerned? If so would bonding help?

onetrack
4th Sep 2013, 02:24
All highly flammable fuels develop a risk of fire through static buildup when being poured. The risk is reduced with plastic containers and fuel tanks, but it's never completely eliminated.
The risk varies according to many variables such as ambient temperature, elevation, the type of fuel, it's flash point and the vapour pressure.
There is also the danger of static buildup from synthetic clothing and other external sources, that can ignite volatile fuel vapours.
As a result, one has to exercise extreme care when pouring or pumping highly flammable fuels between containers and tanks.
Bonding would most certainly be a wise move in your circumstances.

Here's an excellent discourse on static buildup in fuel movement, from a Canadian website:

Flammable and Combustible Liquids (Static Electricity) - How Do I Work Safely with Flammable and Combustible Liquids?: OSH Answers (http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/prevention/flammable_static.html)

By far the largest number of refuelling fires are from a lack of awareness of external sources of ignition, and a lack of awareness of hot engine components.
Refuelling in the manner you are using leads to a greater potential for fuel splash, which is often also a reason for unexpected fuel ignition.

patowalker
4th Sep 2013, 06:07
This reminds me of a gem in the POH of my Aerial Arts Chaser:
WARNING: Smoking while refuelling can be bad for your health. :)

this is my username
4th Sep 2013, 06:16
Plastic jerry cans always make me nervous. I have no idea whether my concerns are based on truth or supposition, but I always think that if I am at the petrol station or the airfield and the whole lot goes "pop", would I rather have the fire in a metal container which is liklely to remain in one piece or a plastic one which will probably melt ......

I pour about 8,000 litres a year in to my aircraft from jerry cans and I would like to think that I am careful. I am constantly amazed to see how casual some people are when handling fuel.

BackPacker
4th Sep 2013, 08:41
I'm not an expert on this, but it seems to me you can reduce the static buildup, and thus the risk, by trying to reduce/eliminate sloshing. If you have to pour, pour with as little sloshing as possible, and try to maintain a bond between all components at all times.

Yes, that's hard, but I once saw a very neat solution to this. I've never used it myself but I would buy it immediately if I ever find myself in your situation.

The solution is essentially a piece of hose with a crude one-way valve in it. You put the end with the one-way valve in the can, and the other end in the aircrafts fuel tank. You then shake the one-way valve end up and down. This pushes the fuel up into the hose until the siphoning action starts. The fuel then drains all by itself into the lower tank. Very controlled, no sloshing, no splashing. And since you can simply put the fuel can on top of the wing or fuselage, there is a bond between the can and the aircraft anyway.

Here's one example. But it must be possible to find or build one that has a metal mesh filter in them as well.

Amazon.com: Super Siphon w/ 6' Siphon Hose 2 Pack: Sports & Outdoors
http://www.amazon.com/Safety-Siphon-Safe-Multi-Purpose-Priming/dp/B000BG1X54/ref=pd_sim_sg_5/189-5323344-8162048

cockney steve
4th Sep 2013, 10:18
Whilst one cannot argue about Static, thousands of cars, lawnmowers generators etc. are fuelled every minute of every day static is ,indeed a very rare cause of fire.....the aircraftshould bond through it's (conductive) tyres,just like a road-vehicle....what about the can?- stood on the ground until you lift to pour?...I'd suggest a car tank slops the fuel around an awful lot more than a 'plane or motorcycle which should both be in balance whilst moving!

Filtering is another grossly exaggerated bogey.....do you really believe that a dispensing facility will invest several thousand pounds in a precision calibrated pump, only to ruin itwith contaminated fuel?
Course not! final filter is normally a dense felt to ensure only pure clean spirit goes through the metering chambers.
any crap is normally due to your own dirty containers and careless handling. good houskeeping should ensure clean fuel.

A lot of the precautions verge on anal retentive....aircraft should "bond" to ground, filler-neck is unlikely to be painted internally, therefore the funnel will sit there and "bond" rest the neck of the can on the funnel, your bonding link is complete.....the real danger, as onetrack pointed out, is synthetic clothing,-which a good pilot should not be wearing anyway!

@ Backpacker...It's a jiggle-syphon plenty on fleabay and motoring shops.

@ T.I.M.Username.....a metal container is a potential bomb, a plastic container is likely to bee cooled below melting-point by the contents....the "dry" portion will heat-soften and act as a fusible vent, so a much safer descent into a blazing inferno.
Any petrol (avgas) container is far more dangerous when "empty"- full of fumes- than it is when full of liquid.

I was told by a professional that a lit match, dropped into a full underground tank, would be immediately extinguished.....vapours @100% concentration, no oxygen, cool liquid....OTOH. an empty tank has drawn in a load of air to replace the dispensed fuel...a bomb waiting to explode!

The road tankers never earthed, before dumping 3,000 gallons in the hole....the hoses had a spiral wire armouring and brass connection couplings so I guess that did the bonding....but I always thought concrete and tarmac were insulators.:confused:

anyone remember the 50's vogue for dangling a chain from the back of a car, to earth static and ward off travel sickness?
later, they sold conductive rubber strips which trailed along the ground (and wore away so you bought another):\

172driver
4th Sep 2013, 15:04
is synthetic clothing,-which a good pilot should not be wearing anyway!

Hi-viz vests, anyone ?

:E

strake
4th Sep 2013, 15:46
I sincerely hope, 172driver, that you are keeping up with latest H&S regulations and requirements!
Given that you may find yourself on an apron or airfield somewhere within 100 metres of an aeroplane or fuel tank, I trust you have invested in and are wearing at all times, your Anti-Static Hi-Viz vest. For refuelling, I think one should go 'the whole hog' and get a complete set of vest, trousers, gloves, hard hat and anti-splash mask.
After refuelling, it is of course acceptable to remove all this clothing before you strap yourself in to the by now, completely full, flying petrol tank.

Maoraigh1
4th Sep 2013, 20:42
Pre EASA night flying in a Jodel DR1050, on a frosty night. After landing, fuelled from metal cans, earthing each with wire to the exhaust. Put aircraft in hangar and closed doors. Put empty cans etc in car. Got in, and before switching anything on, unzipped leather jacket (nylon lining), worn over wool sweater. Flashes of static electricity were very noticeable in the dark.
PS Currently using a plastic funnel, and the earthing wire's got lost. I put in £2338 mogas in 2012.

cockney steve
5th Sep 2013, 10:19
I have a gut-feeling that the risk of fire/explosion through Static discharge , is on a par with the risk of mobile phones on filling-station forecourts.

No known case of the latter, worldwide, ever

10 years ago, the UK fuel companies would close any site turning over anything less than 4 1/2 MILLION litres of petrol, per annum,no doubt, with increased regulation, the figure to break-even, is now higher.

many times i've undressed in the dark and seen a static discharge display, wether the outside, free-air conditions with pouring jerrycans, would have the possibility of the correct fume concentration for a static spark to ignite, is anything more than a myth, I'm not qualified to say.
Perhaps someone can point to something other rhan the Hindenberg (which was still flying and the touching of "ground" via the mooring -mast, APPARENTLY caused the static-discharge that set it alight.

Aircraft are not powered by Hydrogen....non-military have normally landed and thus equalised to Earth potential BEFORE refuelling.

Anyone care to refute my argument?

dubbleyew eight
5th Sep 2013, 10:25
when bowsers were connected to the till via radio link the mobile phone used to stuff up the telemetry. I suspect that that was the actual cause of the no phones in service stations guff.

my thinking is that the red plastic can when used with the yellow integral (screw on) pourer is actually totally safe since the pourer grounds the can to the tank spout. also a far better solution to pouring fuel into a tank in the wind.

Ultranomad
5th Sep 2013, 10:35
I have personally seen the remains of an aircraft (AN-2, to be specific) that caught fire from a static spark during refuelling from plastic cans. However, these were cans of unknown origin, and not all cans are created equal. There are antistatic plastic cans and funnels for flammable liquids, made of slightly conductive plastic. This is typically achieved by adding a carbon filler, so most of these plastics are black.

onetrack
5th Sep 2013, 13:13
Hmmm ... not precisely aviation related - but watch the process of static buildup as she climbs in and out of the car. How many times have you been seriously "zapped", as you climbed out of your car?

Refueling Fire Caused by Static Electricity (long version) - YouTube

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2005/pdf/static_fire.pdf

As I previously stated, static buildup on synthetic clothing, and external sources of ignition, are of more concern, than the buildup of static created by fuel moving from one container to another.

Fuel vapour can travel a considerable distance on the wind and contact a source of ignition that you did not even know was there, or did not consider.

I have seen an entire large fuel distribution depot burn completely to the ground, because a motorist towing a caravan (trailer home) spilt petrol whilst refuelling in the fuel depot (the depot had bowsers to supply the public, as it was in a remote country town).
The vapours from the spilt petrol travelled on the wind into the caravan, where it was ignited by the tiny flame in the LPG fridge.
It was a pretty spectacular show, I can tell you - I sighted the flames from 60 kms away, and the entire depot was toast inside an hour.

Shoestring Flyer
6th Sep 2013, 07:55
good finish

I do exactly as you do with plastic funnel and plastic can then to earth things I connect a car jump lead to the plane exhaust, with a large screwdriver clipped to the other end of the jump lead which I hold in the funnel when pouring the fuel in.

Flyingmac
6th Sep 2013, 12:34
About £6 from Screwfix. Laser Jiggle Siphon Hose 1.75m | Screwfix.com (http://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-jiggle-siphon-hose-1-75m/23447?kpid=23447&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=COPKot_itrkCFfLHtAodVhYAmw)

kevkdg
18th Mar 2017, 11:40
Here's one example. But it must be possible to find or build one that has a metal mesh filter in them as well.



Probably a bit late now, but this Jiggle Syphon on Ebay has a longer than usual hose at 2.65m and an in line mesh filter.


10894 Medium Self Priming Jiggle Syphon Pump Hose 265cm Fuel Petrol Water Fluid | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10894-Medium-Self-Priming-Jiggle-Syphon-Pump-Hose-265cm-Fuel-Petrol-Water-Fluid-/271959935819?hash=item3f52134b4b:g:eM4AAOSwyQtV0cpW)

Capt Kremmen
18th Mar 2017, 12:03
Here's a useful tip re above. In addition to the standard high viz vest wear a pair of Wellingon boots.

ShyTorque
18th Mar 2017, 12:15
What I've learned here is never get undressed whilst refuelling an aircraft.

Heston
18th Mar 2017, 12:29
To those who don't like plastic cans - guess what car petrol tanks are made from?

Planemike
18th Mar 2017, 13:21
What I've learned here is never get undressed whilst refuelling an aircraft.


It will be safe enough if you do it while it is raining.......!!

megan
18th Mar 2017, 14:03
This may be of interest.Anti-spill spout adaptors are available that can be used to prevent flashback of flames and internal explosions when pouring petrol from plastic petrol containers. These adaptors can either be used in place of the spout supplied or may be integrated into the design of the petrol container. A study by HSL (www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr1015.pdf) on a sample of these adaptors has demonstrated that they are capable of preventing flashback but can have limitations in their ability to prevent overfill and spillage. They therefore do not eliminate all the risk involved in using petrol and care is still needed when using them to avoid spillages and accidents. http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/portabable-petrol-storage-containers.pdf

https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf95512323.pdf

G0ULI
18th Mar 2017, 14:24
Petrol vapour is the dangerous bit. In liquid form, petrol is relatively safe. A lighted cigarette thrown into a bucket of petrol will normally be extinguished. If you do try to test this, stand up wind, just in case! The things we did as kids...

Jan Olieslagers
18th Mar 2017, 16:24
"is it safe" says the title.

Not a good question to ask - most things in aviation (and in life in general) are more or less safe - or more or less dangerous.
Which makes me like the above response by G0ULI.

strake
18th Mar 2017, 18:58
Here in rural SW France, when we arrived six years ago, I was horrified to see people filling two or three 20 litre plastic jerry cans of petrol and popping them in the car to run various garden machinery. Now, along with other members of my marina, I'm afraid to say I do the same...none of us have been blown up..yet.
I presume this will be frowned upon by the members of this forum. Mea culpa.

Sir Niall Dementia
18th Mar 2017, 21:24
Back in the early 1980's there was an article in GASCO (or whatever it was called then) warning about plastic containers and fuel, there were some stats in there about how many times it had gone wrong, and a couple were aviation related. There was serious mention of wearing nylon clothing while doing it.

I read it in the flying club having just filled a Rallye from two large plastic drums with no earthing kit and wearing a trendy nylon jacket. Our CFI Derek Wilcox had been filling aircraft like that for years, he had sbsorbed so much avgas he was a bit like Gouli's bucket of petrol, I used to stand a long way away when he lit his habitual roll-up..............

SND

horizon flyer
19th Mar 2017, 02:33
As the owner of small boat on the Thames with an outboard filling fuel tanks is a common thing to do but in the last 5 years 3 accidents have happen locally two when filling a tank and the third a leaking connector. One fire burnt the boat plus one each side and the owner filling the tank. The second very badly burnt the owner & boat. On the third it was in a lock and exploded on start up, spark from starter motor it nearly took 12 other boats with it.

The law states only 5lt plastic & 10lt metal cans can be filled in a fuel station and 30lt detachable fuel tanks that have snap on fuel lines. These can be metal or plastic and are not designed for pouring. Most places don't know about the 30lr fuel tank regulations. So legally difficult to buy sufficient fuel for a boat or aircraft. I always hid my 30lt tank behind the car so it looks like I am filling the car, to late to stop me when full.

From an anti static point conductive material are best, charges can be dissipated and drained to earth or bonded to the airframe to equalises voltages so no current flow or sparks when pouring the fuel into the tank. I think the old WW11 German jerry can design is the best for carrying fuel, if you can get them filled. Don't try Sainsburys, they stick to the rules. There is also regulations on how much fuel can be carried in a vehicle and how much can be stored at home not policed very well but may invalid insurances if exceeded.

We all carry static charges on our clothes and hair, generally just a few hundred but on some clothes it can be as high as 10,000 thousand volts which can cause a 1/2.5 inch/cm spark, so care is needed with plastic and clothing when handling petrol. Accidents do happen but not often but the consequences are very high. Petrol has 10 times the explosive power per lb than TNT so 150lbs/25 us gals is 1500lb bomb equivalent.

Oh one last thing petrol can cause cancer and gives a strong burning feel when splashed on skin and don't get it in your eyes, wash off as quick as possible or will spoil your day.

ShyTorque
19th Mar 2017, 07:13
Problem with boats of course is that petrol vapour is heavier than air, so it accumulates in the bilges rather than flowing away. A Diesel engine is safer in that respect.

Romeo Tango
19th Mar 2017, 09:06
I regularly fill 2 off 20L steel jerry cans at car filling stations in rural Dorset for farm use.

No one ever objects.

onetrack
19th Mar 2017, 14:58
You can fill jerrycans up to 20L maximum size at Australian service (gas) stations - but they must be sitting on the pavement, not in any part of a vehicle, that is off the ground.

This is specific fuel company instructions, and if the station operator sees you filling a jerrycan in a vehicle (via the CCTV), they will shut off your pump and advise you over the forecourt loudspeaker, to remove the jerrycan from the vehicle and place it on the ground before they will turn the pump back on.

This technique is no doubt also in place, to prevent fuel spills creating a vapour-laden vehicle, which is an additional hazard to any potential static spark.

Old Nic
19th Mar 2017, 18:12
I fuel from steel jerry cans.......the Tanks in my microlight are plastic, what's a man to do?

Maoraigh1
19th Mar 2017, 21:21
As long as we are in the EU, we can carry a large (201L??) volume of petrol, provided it is for our own use, and in approved containers. There is a UK restriction if it is for your car, but not your plane/boat/etc.

kevkdg
19th Mar 2017, 23:12
The US Military (maybe the UK too) now use 20l Scepter Military Fuel cans which are plastic (google "scepter mfc").

Also, several marine stockists sell Scepter 20l and 25l civilian plastic fuel cans (as do Amazon.co.uk - not third party seller)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/h7b/Scepter-B25-B25-25-Litre-Fuel-Jerry/B0123ZPVAS

Amazon normally check whether it is legal in the Country they are selling, especially as it is sold by Amazon themselves.

Is the plastic these are made from some kind of anti static plastic?

I was thinking of buying two of the 25 litre ones from Amazon, that way filling 20 litres leaves enough room to pour without spilling like you would do if full to the brim and you tilted it.

Mixed Up
20th Mar 2017, 14:25
ou can fill jerrycans up to 20L maximum size at Australian service (gas) stations - but they must be sitting on the pavement, not in any part of a vehicle, that is off the ground.

This is specific fuel company instructions, and if the station operator sees you filling a jerrycan in a vehicle (via the CCTV), they will shut off your pump and advise you over the forecourt loudspeaker, to remove the jerrycan from the vehicle and place it on the ground before they will turn the pump back on.

This technique is no doubt also in place, to prevent fuel spills creating a vapour-laden vehicle, which is an additional hazard to any potential static spark.

Exactly my experience in the UK too.

mary meagher
21st Mar 2017, 09:15
Took a lot of work to gather enough sticks, logs, trash, etc, to build a nice bonfire for the women at the Husbands Bosworth European Women's Championships a few years ago. All part of the traditional celebrations.

I took it on myself to get the fuel together and arrange it nicely while most pilots were happily drinking in the bar after the days flying. The tug pilot had brought me a container of avgas to use for lighting the bonfire.

He was horrified when I had poured a suitable quantity of avgas over the structure and was about to toss a match on the pile. No no NO! He said THAT would be dangerous! He took the fuel container and carefully laid a trail of avgas from the pile of sticks, logs, etc to a safe distance. "Now, you just drop the match at the end of the trail, and it will be OK...."

It was. Actually it was quite impressive. He dropped the match for me, I was getting nervous by now. The flame went up the trail of avgas through the grass...with incredible speed! The ENTIRE bonfire went up with a WOOF! The drinkers in the bar didn't even have a chance to watch it go, the whole thing burned up so fast.

Avgas for starting a fire? just imagine if that happened in the wrong place.

Romeo Tango
21st Mar 2017, 09:16
Jet fuel is better for this application

Pilot DAR
21st Mar 2017, 11:35
If you must use petroleum fuel for starting a fire, use a 50/50 mixture of gasoline and diesel, let it soak in well before igniting, and use a "fuse", as described by Mary.

To to topic at hand, electricity will flow between objects of different electrical potential. That potential may be caused by many things, including arms rustling in nylon jackets. Electricity will follow the path of least resistance. An air gap has about the most resistance of any common path. So, the electricity which may have to flow will follow any path before jumping a gap through the air (= a spark).

A plastic funnel is a less good conductor than air, or a stream of liquid, but it's better than air. So if the electrical potential of the gasoline container can be maintained with any path other than an air gap to the fuel tank, the potential will not build up, and suddenly jump an air gap, causing a spark, which is an ignition source.

Grounding/earthing everything is great, if you can. But more importantly, bond the source to the tank while transferring gasoline between them. Touching a plastic funnel to both the plastic jerry can, and the aircraft is doing that. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

When you taxi up to the land based fuel pump, the aircraft may still be holding a static charge (electrical potential) from the flight, which does not dissipate quickly through the tires to the ground. Thus when you connect the fuel pump bonding wire to the airframe, you just equalized the electrical potential of aeroplane to ground, and the fueling hose has a bonding wire in it too. Yes, you "grounded" the aeroplane, but more importantly, you bonded the fuel tank to the fuel source.

It is for this same reason that it is very unsafe to fill fuel cans which are in the back of a vehicle or trailer, as they are not bonded to the ground, as the fuel pump is. The first approach of the fuel nozzle to the unbonded fuel can could cause a spark (equalizing the differing electrical potentials), and your empty fuel can contains the most sensitive "fuel" of all, which is gasoline vapour.

"Jerry canning" fuel is my very last choice for fueling my plane, but yes, I have done it, with great caution.

Crash one
21st Mar 2017, 12:43
I have little choice than to Jerry can my aircraft and I've always used steel cans and a plastic funnel, an earthing wire to the exhaust and spiked into the ground.
Climb the stepladder, open can, lean on the aircraft, can in contact with me and the funnel before pouring.
I also will not use a can that hasn't been standing on the grass or concrete for at least twenty minutes since being dragged out of the car, to dissipate the static.
I built a pumping system from copper tube, plastic tube with a ball valve tap. This is sealed into the can with the cap and has two tyre valves in the cap. One for the foot pump the other with no valve in it but a valve cap to hold/release the pressure.
This works very well, saves lifting cans, but someone once mentioned that the small diameter pipe causes higher speed of delivery and can create static. So now I worry about that!
Being a deserted airfield most of the time I get a bit paranoid with this and usually consider my escape route dive if it all goes belly up. Ten years, so far so good.

Molemot
21st Mar 2017, 13:36
Lighting fires.....yes...... Some years ago I cleared a few trees from the bottom of my garden. It was nearly Guy Fawke's Night, so I arranged a mighty bonfire and invited the neighbours. Had some old paraffin left over from parts cleaning, so soused that over the bonfire and lit it. Away it went, nicely but not uncontrolled, and we had a good evening making bangs and firing rockets and cooking sausages.
The next day most of the treestuff had been consumed...but there were a couple of obstinate treestumps; more conflagration called for.

Inspected the paraffin supply; all gone.

Hmmm. Need something suitable....

Then my eyes lit upon the 5 litre can with 2 star petrol in it (yes,it was that long ago...!) This I had used to fuel the midget JCB I had used to get the stumps out and the ground level. 2Star ought to burn the stumps....

So I poured the petrol on to the stumps....about 2/3 gallon, I suppose. Then went in search of ignition.

Came back in a few minutes with a box of matches; blithely lit one and threw it onto the petrol soaked treestumps....which is when I discovered my error!

During my absence, the petrol vapour had spread all over the garden....and it went up with a mighty WHOOOMPH, leaving me up to my gonads in flame......so I did a "Tom and Jerry", leapt into the air and ran along the tops of the flames...(!)

At least, that's what it felt like....fortunately the vapour burnt very quckly and the flames had dissipated almost before I landed from my leap. The stumps were "going nicely" to use Fire Brigade parlance, and no harm done. That was only 2Star; Avgas must be even more impressive.

Once at Linton on Ouse we were looking for stuff to light barbecues with, and ended up draining some of HM the Q's finest Avtur out of a bowser and using that; it worked well and was far less exciting.....

horizon flyer
21st Mar 2017, 17:12
Yes petrol is dangerous stuff I think with everyone using self service refuelling people don't think it is. Sadly a brother in law of my sister in law used some petrol to get an already light barbeque going better by pouring some petrol on it with, as we know the expected result. Very badly burnt was touch and go that was over a year ago but a month ago he committed suicide even sadder he's wife died of cancer 2 years ago so leaves 4 children under 12 orphans.

So take care with the stuff, think static and flame sources, as pointed out the vapour flows in warm weather considerable distances. Metal fuel cans are better plastic fuel tanks don't seem to be a problem as not poured from.

So think safe consider you are handing a bomb so don't hit it with a hammer.

Crash one
21st Mar 2017, 18:22
Be aware of the wind direction whether lighting bonfires or peeing into a bed of nettles.

Flying Binghi
22nd Mar 2017, 01:25
...If you must use petroleum fuel for starting a fire, use a 50/50 mixture of gasoline and diesel, let it soak in well before igniting, and use a "fuse", as described by Mary...

I'd be a bit wary of waiting to lite petrol. As another poster pointed out, petrol fumes sink down and acumalate in hollows. I'd suggest using straight diesel for the "soak in well" part and then come in with the petrol/diesel mix with an fairly immediate ignition before the petrol fumes can create an issue. Probably use a gas burner fire wand for ignition.

If burning of woody rubbish on a regular basis i'd suggest one of those gas burner fire wands or something like this: Rodney Industries | Firebugs (http://www.rodneyind.com.au/index.php?id=82)





.







.

Pilot DAR
22nd Mar 2017, 02:23
From my experience, the reason for allowing the fuel mixture to soak in, is simply so that it will actually sustain the fire long enough to ignite the burn pile. I have previously used a liquid fuel mixture as a burn pile starter, but had the fuel burn off upon ignition, without actually leaving enough heat to sustain a fire in the brush - 'flash in the pan. Very cautious experimentation is a good idea. Exercise ultimate respect for the hazard of fire, including wearing only natural material clothing - no nylon!

kevkdg
22nd Mar 2017, 08:43
https://www.aerospaceonline.com/doc/safety-on-the-ground-using-plastics-in-refuel-0001

mary meagher
22nd Mar 2017, 09:01
For starting my garden bonfire, I find that egg boxes burn very well....

ShyTorque
22nd Mar 2017, 09:19
I wouldn't even try to use petrol to light a bonfire because it's just too volatile (not to mention the danger).

Most commercially available firelighters (the white cube type) contain kerosene, far longer burning. The label of one pack I bought this winter actually said they contain Jet A-1.

Penny Washers
22nd Mar 2017, 10:36
There's lots of good sense here - well done everyone! I especially agree with every word Cockney Steve has written.

I remember that GASCO safety bulletin (Post #25), and sent in a response pointing out that the whole of England would be ablaze every weekend if what they said was true, because the risks would apply to lawnmowers and everything else used in the garden.

The response did not get published (!), but in doing some research on the web to make the reply, I came across some very useful information on a website created by one of the fire services somewhere in the South West of England - I cannot remember now which one it was. They said that there was little risk of static being generated by the act of hand pouring from a small can, because there was insufficient flow to create a problem. Higher fuel flow rates when using a pump were a different matter and could generate static.

That does not mean to say that there is no risk. We have all been caught out by a spark jumping from the car on a dry day, and made all the more likely if you are wearing shoes with plastic soles. All you need then is some fuel vapour to be ignited.