SMS Training

[bluesideoops]

Hi,

Does anyone know if there are any ICAO requirements for SMS training to be delivered by an approved/trained SMS Trainor/Instructor or can anyone who has received SMS training go back to their respective organisations and produce an internal training course and deliver it to their organisation - should the person delivering attend (or indeed is it mandatory) to do a 'train the trainer' type of course.

All thoughts and opinions warmly received,
Thanks
B

[flingwing1]

First, I think you should go to the ICAO website and do some research, yourself. I haven't been there in a long time and don't remember exactly what it has on its site. As I remember, though, it's not very much about SMS considering its importance.

However, as I know, the only requirement for SMS training is within each company that owns an SMS. That means, training should be an integrated part of the SMS, itself. You need initial training for everyone and then recurrent training (I think) yearly.

The training can be anything you want. But whatever it is, it must pass muster by your local regulatory authority (i.e., FAA, DGCA, EASA, etc.). It also has to pass muster by outside auditors who may come to check. So the training must be good enough and done often enough to at least meet local regulatory authority requirements.

No training or certification is required for trainers. But, again, they should be good at what they do so they promote the SMS. As one auditor story goes, the best way to determine how healthy a company's SMS is, is to walk around the company and casually ask non-descript people (for example, hangar cleaners, accounting staff, security guards, etc.) if they know about the company's SMS and what they think of it. The quality of responses from various people in the company will at least show how effective the SMS training is. :ok:

[LookingForAJob]

First of all an answer to the main question - no, as far as I'm aware there is no 'requirement' from ICAO for trainers to be in any way approved or endorsed.

Does anyone know if there are any ICAO requirements for SMS training to be delivered by an approved/trained SMS Trainor/Instructor or can anyone who has received SMS training go back to their respective organisations and produce an internal training course and deliver it to their organisation - should the person delivering attend (or indeed is it mandatory) to do a 'train the trainer' type of course.But do you mean training about the SMS or training in the competences and skills that are needed to perform tasks required by the SMS. The two are rather different!

As one auditor story goes, the best way to determine how healthy a company's SMS is, is to walk around the company and casually ask non-descript people (for example, hangar cleaners, accounting staff, security guards, etc.) if they know about the company's SMS and what they think of it. The quality of responses from various people in the company will at least show how effective the SMS training is.There is a view that hangar cleaners or, indeed, those in many other roles in an organisation, do not necessarily need to know very much about the SMS at all - what is important is that they know what their responsibilities are and do what is expected of them.

[flingwing1]

"There is a view that hangar cleaners or, indeed, those in many other roles in an organization, do not necessarily need to know very much about the SMS at all . . .."

And whom, pray tell, holds that view?

[LookingForAJob]

And whom, pray tell, holds that view?A couple of trainers with whom I have worked - and I am quite persuaded in the right circumstances.

Not wishing to cast any aspersions toward hangar cleaners and other people who do jobs that are sometimes dismissed as unimportant, but at some levels in an organisation training about SMS processes may be of little value or interest (for a variety of reasons). An auditor who asks your hangar cleaner what they think of the SMS may get a blank look in return; but ask them what they have to do if they see something unsafe and there may be a comprehensive and effective response. Likewise, ask an accountant what they think of the SMS and there may be a different answer to questions like 'how can your job affect safety?' or 'what is your role in keeping the aeroplanes [or whatever] safe?'

One of the biggest problems in implementing an effective SMS is that many safety practitioners try to wrap safety up into big words and excessively complex processes that confuse or bore people doing the day job. It ain't rocket science and many aviation organisations have been doing good SMS since long before the term got bandied around by today's crop of Safety Managers!