Experiment in Microsleep

[Machinbird]

mi·cro·sleep
[mahy-kroh-sleep] noun Psychology .
a moment of sleep (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sleep) followed by disorientation, experienced especially by persons suffering from narcolepsy or sleep (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sleep) deprivation.


(From Wikipedia.org) A microsleep is an episode of sleep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep) which may last for a fraction of a second or up to thirty seconds.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsleep#cite_note-ICSD-1) Often, it is the result of sleep deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation), mental fatigue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_%28physical%29), depression, sleep apnea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea), hypoxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxia_%28medical%29), narcolepsy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcolepsy), or idiopathic hypersomnia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiopathic_hypersomnia). For the sleep-deprived, microsleeping can occur at any time, typically without substantial warning.
Microsleeps (or microsleep episodes) become extremely dangerous when they occur in situations which demand constant alertness, such as driving a motor vehicle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprived_driving) or working with heavy machinery. People who experience microsleeps usually remain unaware of them, instead believing themselves to have been awake the whole time, or to have temporarily lost focus.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsleep#cite_note-2)
There is little agreement on how best to identify microsleep episodes. Some experts define microsleep according to behavioral criteria (head nods, drooping eyelids, etc.),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsleep#cite_note-3) while others rely on EEG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEG) markers. One study at the University of Iowa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa) defined EEG-monitored microsleeps in driving simulation as "a 3–14 second episode during which 4–7 Hz (theta) activity replaced the waking 8–13 Hz (alpha) background rhythm."[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsleep#cite_note-4)
Driver fatigue is particularly dangerous because one of the symptoms is decreased ability to judge your own level of tiredness. It reasonable to assume this applies equally to aircraft operation.

In my present position, I run a small manufacturing company. The hours tend to be long, but when you run a business, you have a tiger by the tail and cannot let go. I calculate that if I can bag 5 hours sleep per night 5 days a week, then I can still function during the week and recuperate satisfactorily on the weekend.

Unfortunately, sometimes the demands of business result in considerably less than 5 hours sleep>> resulting in close acquaintance with extreme fatigue/ sleep deprivation. This is critical since I face a ~1 hour night drive home.

We are all probably familiar with fatigue resulting in that mental “wading through sand” feeling as we attempt to accomplish a mental task. I see that often. For me, it is an indicator that , I should just take a short nap to regain performance. Trying to bull through these situations just results in inefficient staring at a screen.

Perhaps you remember suddenly realizing that you have driven a number of miles and have no memory of the process. (This is not necessarily microsleep induced, but can be the result of a loss in focus on the driving process.) It is a warning that you are excessively fatigued.

Recently I encountered a repeated microsleep situation on one drive home and came to the realization that this is an especially hazardous situation to be avoided at all costs. I had seen this microsleep effect before but had attributed it to “getting old.” Remember, microsleeps occur without warning and you may not recognize you have been sleeping after the event.

What I experienced was finding myself on the road without a picture of what I was doing. (But even that description is inadequate.)

In vehicle control, be it aircraft or automobile, there is a continuity of navigation that the mind must engage in. In simple terms, you correlate your position with regard to landmarks and plan your actions to most effectively execute your navigational plan. Your mind notices deviations from the plan due to distraction or inattention/loss of focus and you make corrections.

What I discovered first hand that was most alarming was that following a microsleep episode, the entire navigation plan was gone from my memory and had to be recreated. This is the source of the confusion associated with microsleep!:eek:

Judging from my lane alignment while driving, the microsleeps were very short, however it takes several seconds to recognize your surroundings (on a familiar route) and restart your navigation plan (ie. To begin thinking ahead of present position.)

What was exceptionally disconcerting were the turns into the neighborhood around my house. When reawakening into the need for an immediate turn, all you can do is react in an appropriate manner and then determine if you made a correct turn.

Since microsleep events occur without warning, and are generally not recognized by the participant as a sleep event, the best method of detecting one is by detecting the resulting confusion that results from loss of the plan. This is the news that I hope you can use. :ok:

In the process of writing this report, I found an excellent paper published by the NZ CAA:
http://www.caa.govt.nz/Publications/Vector/Vector_Articles/Asleep_MayJun03Vector.pdf

[FREDAcheck]

I'm not making any judgement on you, but be very careful. You have publicly (on Pprune) stated that you have suffered from micro-sleep. Pprune won't (can't) hide your identity if a court wants it. Were you to have an accident driving home, having admitted that you are aware of driving while fatigued, and aware of the dangers... I'm sure you know this.

[dubbleyew eight]

hey birdie I also have first hand experience with microsleeps.

YOU CANNOT PREDICT WHEN THEY WILL OCCUR.

change your lifestyle!
hire an assistant and cut back the hours.
learn to delegate or just let some things slip.

get more sleep or you will kill yourself.
worse still you will kill someone else by accident.

stop reading to understand it. you need more sleep. simple.
your brain is shutting down because the circuitry is exhausted.

on a positive note I made all such changes and dont suffer microsleeps any more. it isnt a permanent condition. like a hangover you sleep it off.:ok:

[Machinbird]

FREDAcheck and dubbleyew eight.
Your concerns are noted and appreciated.
I have been doing this schedule for over 10 years and have mitigation strategies in place. The problem is that I do not always use them.

I considered quite a while before going live with this, but if you look at what was posted, I think you will see that there is also a problem in recognizing microsleep events when they occur.

I posted what I did to point out that there is a method for a person, properly forewarned, to recognize that they themselves have experienced a microsleep event.

The loss of the situational awareness/ confusion that results from a microsleep event is a useful warning of a microsleep event. One only has to recognize what it means.

Considering that aircrews are reporting microsleep events while flying makes this an appropriate forum for such a discussion.

[roulishollandais]

Hi Machinbird,
Since microsleep events occur without warning, and are generally not recognized by the participant as a sleep event, the best method of detecting one is by detecting the resulting confusion that results from loss of the plan. This is the news that I hope you can use.
In the process of writing this report, I found an excellent paper published by the NZ CAA: http://www.caa.govt.nz/Publications/...un03Vector.pdf

Very interesting report. It brings an answer to FREDAcheck : EVERYBODY may have microsleep. It is not a disease in se.

As we all are living with the discontinuity of being asleep or awoken around two times a day our brains have a "chaotic" dynamic : so we can never make it SURE to work this way or that way. Chaos is a math model of morphogenesis, and include notably ALL the systems where function or any derivates is not continue, i.e. asleep/awake, living/being dead, being a foetus or being born, and also any complex continuous system like fluid mechanic, life, communication, economy, aso. But also simpler system who are not linear like the movement of planets around the sun, etc.

We cannot preview the evolution of a chaotic system. This one is very sensible to a very small event .

Machinbird you told us your recent event but tomorrow it may happen to FREDAcheck and there is no trial risk to break a taboo.

Searchers studied micro sleeps and sleep inertia only on initialy well-rested persons and are far away to know everything about sleep, a fortiori about microsleeps. It is time to break the silence about fatigue.

Many pilots have experienced excessive fatigue, for instance when you have to divert with passengers or freight due to sudden fog, and going into the hotel to "rest" you are watching meteo from hour to hour until you reach conditions for take-off. Many pilots here wrote they are very tired at landing during normal flight. I remember that "rest" in Maastricht some hours between landing and take-off as freightdog : We were laying on non level hard armchairs with lights in the eyes in any direction, trying to find a rest position. Sometimes we prefered to go to the night bar where we had good chairs to sit, one of us was grounded one week after the barman told the French DGAC he drunk one glass of beer. At the same times we did not know how much fuel we had actualy, we had three different numbers and no flight manual of that aircraft done with parts of aircrafts destroyed in the bush anywhere in the world. The aircraft was said to be a A27-DHC6, had enforced leading edges at the wing roots but engines were 2x600 HP like the A20... Glycol flowed on the electronic boxes producting a mixed vapour and odour of glycol and ozone because the windshield anti-ice was connected to nothing, but everyday they filled it again. Often some instrument didn't like glycol and failed during the flight. Be sure, FREDAcheck that insurances would have payed without trial to search if we were microsleeping in the vapours... A colleague told he was eating pills to sleep before they came back from Tokyo to overcome his jetlag. During night flights we often could see every crew had to resist to want to sleep nearly at the same hours. Physicians did improve the situation when they asked pilots to stop smoking with the treat to cut the licence.

Searchers discovered that fatigue but also boring tasks may induce these microsleeps : Did you ever pray the Rosary?! Long trips on the highway need stops. Statistic say that road accidents are more serious and numerous arriving in the well-known streets near of home. My father in law died in such an accident crossing a road without respecting the Stop he knew very well and always respected, cutting the way to another car. It was 300 m from his home after a 300 km trip. His sister died too. Her ejected husband and my mother in law and the driver of the other car were severly injured.

The searchers could study 100-200 micro sleeps by long-range pilots...
As flight teacher we know that there is no need to fligh more than 30-45 mn before the student pilot is no more able to assimilate more and has no more enough focus on the flight.
At school, children learn math and physic the morning as they are less tired.
We all have to manage with fatigue, we have to prevent fatigue, but how?
Eventually, when sufficiently deprived of sleep, the human,brain can spontaneously shift from wakefulness to sleep in order to meet its physiological need.

Organizing our personal life in a world in crisis is not only an individual issue. It is a global Society issue increasing with the crisis.

Since they replaced the train in my valley by a tram+train many people going to work are traveling two times a day 1h15 instead 50 mn. Students are coming late and tired at school. Some good workers have been fired as they are no more able to be there at time. Our world is TOO UNSTEADY . Time, money, people, market, politic are unsteady. And so Machinbird is saying us that he is reaching the limit with fatigue, and managing a Business is too unsteady to put in place the former tools to manage fatigue that dubbleyew eight is suggesting. Stabilizing an unsteady world situation with thousand of billions false debts needs time, same rules for everybody, delay not paying more taxes.

Fatigue, boring work like CDA without checking distance/altitude and press-button flights are killing. We need to be master of our fate, of our future, to get free.

The greatest treasure of Society is the Human ware. Men and women need to regain Freedom to organize their life in a more steady way. Thank you Machinbird to share your experience of desorentation after micro-sleeps. If they happen again due to sleep deprivation I hope you can do everything they happen when you are not driving or flying.

Best wishes, Machinbird. You are from the very best by us. Take care to you , we need you!:)

I recently listened that people who are practicing did not risk to suffer from sleep-apnea I suggest to play harmonica!

[FREDAcheck]

Very interesting report. It brings an answer to FREDAcheck : EVERYBODY may have microsleep. It is not a disease in se.
Machinbird you told us your recent event but tomorrow it may happen to FREDAcheck and there is no trial risk to break a taboo.
My reading of the report is that "microsleeps" may happen to anyone, but that they are induced by fatigue. If you are aware that you are fatigued, and you are aware of the dangers, but you still do a task that puts lives at risks, courts might decide that you are negligent.

I'm not being judgemental about this, merely commenting that there might be a greater legal liability if you voluntarily, deliberately and knowingly do something dangerous.

For a pilot or other shift worker it might be different: you are doing something that is a normal part of your employment, and which meets industry safety norms. Whether those norms are correct or not is another matter, but you might reasonably expect that patterns of behaviour that conform to the industry norms have been assessed for safety by someone else.

[roulishollandais]

FREDAchek,
Despite the positive law differences in France, UK, USA and application of the rules, Civil Aviation trials and Lawyers defence are progressing toward similar decisions since big international teams of tenors of Barrell are now organized.
It is not so easy to qualify an accident in culprit negligence :Judges need to be sure that the act you qualify as a negligence is the direct cause of the accident.
We all felt micosleep once . If we have an accident it would be necessful to prove that a past microsleep (to identify by physology Searchers wo are still very ignorant) is the direct cause from the recent accident and we know it would not be the case.

You seem to say that industry would be free to put their workers at volounter risk of microsleep resulting from "excessive" fatigue accepted by mutual agreement.
Which Judge would take such decisions?

[Dan Dare]

UK Air Navigation Order

146 (1)(2)
A person must not act as a member of the crew of an aircraft to which this article applies if they know or suspect that they are suffering from or, having regard to the circumstances of the flight to be undertaken, are likely to suffer from, such fatigue as may endanger the safety of the aircraft or of its occupants.

Many/most have fallen asleep while operational - some planned and deliberate, others accidental. At what stage does this start to endanger the the safety of the aircraft? Surely any crew with sleep inertia or liability to microsleep is less safe than a well rested crew during their normal waking hours. Do airlines have safety mitigations for this (where?) or is it just quietly forgotten until the court case?

[Armchairflyer]

Happened to come across an overview article on fatigue and safety recently. If anyone is interested: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/49656986_The_link_between_fatigue_and_safety/file/e0b49515c2d136471f.pdf (or http://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CFcQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F496569 86_The_link_between_fatigue_and_safety%2Ffile%2Fe0b49515c2d1 36471f.pdf&ei=6vodUvXHMY2S0QXTu4GACQ&usg=AFQjCNHAD4qlvWmiuSkk7NSWYGQAQq-lTw&bvm=bv.51156542,d.bGE). If neither link works for you, PM me for a copy (please provide an e-mail address I can send a 540kb-Attachment to).

[Mr Angry from Purley]

A good leveller for aircrew reading this thread may I suggest
Guy under pressure to deliver and to pay his wages, commercial pressure is not only a airline issue
Doesn't have a co-jo next to him
Doesn't have ATC to protect him
Doesn't have a autopilot
Works Monday to Friday night rest Saturday off Sunday, start again
In the UK many airlines have napping policy, USA taboo subject?
Real World :D

:\:\

[roulishollandais]

PPRuNe won't (can't) hide your identity if a court wants it. Were you to have an accident driving home, having admitted that you are aware of driving while fatigued, and aware of the danger...
The logic of that assertion is false, so is the statment :
If an accident happens on the road you first know the car and the driver ! Nobody would search if that driver is a PPRuNe' poster! To find the identity of the driver !!!
Should it happen, PPRuNe would not be asked by a Court about the post , and should it be done by a chain of misprocedures PPRuNe would not have to answer as there is no fault to post about our subject and no position of PPRuNe as a media to a fault.

It is totally different from Ryanair's case where PPRuNe was editing posts that Ryanair claimed diffamatory for Ryanair - and it seems that the Courts did not still state on these cases : the last posts were not the result of Court decisions it seems Ryanair finaly prefered to negociate with the posters and promize to give money to Charity better than have a public trial if I understood well (I did not read all the posts, and many have been deleted).

Unless PPRuNe is already working like :mad: in UK - and transmit all their files previewsly to dark offices in strong violation of files use laws , so your statement is false. Why were you treatening any poster to post on that taboo? Are you effraid yourself by your shade and paranoid?

I trust to PPRuNe and to the Law. PPRuNe is an excellent modern and automated tool to increase air safety. And that thread opens the door on an important research domain.

Question : How do British doctors to put the diagnostic of trend to microsleep out of the person declaration itself after reading here and there? Many persons think they have cancer after reading internet, and it was only a fear, happily the doctors have their own tools.
With microsleeps (which are different from sleep inertia or narcolepsy) essentialy connected to fatigue affecting everybody everyday the best is to collect open information not to culpabilize exhausted pilot before rest.

Iself would like to know why the microsleeper gets quickly awaken

[roulishollandais]

: http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...c2d136471f.pdf (http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...c2d136471f.pdf)
Thank you for that work. We see we are far to know much more about fatique :}
The results of this review indicate a clear need for
further research to address some important unanswered questions
about the link between fatigue and safety

[Machinbird]

Statistic say that road accidents are more serious and numerous arriving in the well-known streets near of home. My father in law died in such an accident crossing a road without respecting the Stop he knew very well and always respected, cutting the way to another car. It was 300 m from his home after a 300 km trip. His sister died too. Her ejected husband and my mother in law and the driver of the other car were severly injured.
That is an interesting comment. Can you show the statistics you referenced?

Something similar happened to my wife when she was working with me. She fell asleep on a gradual curve within sight of the house and ran off the side of the road when the road straightened. Totaled her car. Tending to a sick friend the night before had caused her to exceed her normal fatigue levels. I suspect that she relaxed a bit when she thought she was home.

There may be some application to aviation although the level of stimulus on approach is higher than during a drive home. I can almost imagine a tired crew doing a difficult night approach in the weather, and then microsleeping during the rollout. Does anyone have any stories to relate along that line?

[dubbleyew eight]

I can almost imagine a tired crew doing a difficult night approach in the weather, and then microsleeping during the rollout. Does anyone have any stories to relate along that line?

not the way it would happen my friend.
from my experience a micro sleep is caused by the utter exhaustion of the underlying brain circuitry. the micro sleep allows the circuitry to be put out of action and the blood supply to slightly replenish the circuitry.

you are a danger to yourself because you still believe deep down that it is something that is predictable and can be managed.
you cannot predict when it will occur. you may never be aware of your last micro sleep because your shattered body will have ceased living.

as one who has been through this and no longer suffers it, CHANGE YOUR LIFESTYLE.

[roulishollandais]

So tired I could have been, so boring it seems to be, I never was near to get asleep when pedaling on my bicycle :) Why?

Getting asleep during departure, approach or taxiing not more. The danger for pilots seems to be in cruise at these hours where many are used to sleep. Sleep inertia affecting some persons is probably similar to mental viscosity (a big danger in piloting) after such a sleep or after a legal rest during long-range flights.

I managed the risk to be tired during the flight and of jetlag by two methods :
1. Previews rest works for me, despite the fact that many people are saying that you cannot rest before to be tired. Lying on the bed, relax, low light, let the phone and the door ring bell, let nobody trouble that time, no book. Zéro cofee. No alarm. Perhaps you get asleep or not but you rest previewsly.
2. Changing your internal clock is possible too : The rest must be at the same hours during three days if possible that the new schedule, and eating, specialysalted meals at the new schedule "normal" hours for breakfast, lunch, dinner.

Regular night flights needed for me to help temperature regulation when I came back : After puting my car on a legal place despite all the places are occupied during the finishing night... in the village of Roissy-en-France where I was living some years as freightdog in LFPG, I went to the Baker's behind door where he was working before to open the shop, buyed two warm delicious sugar cakes, and did a royal breakfast with cheese, fish (I needed salted food) and self made cacao wiith full milk and melting chocolate! Mmmmm! I served me all that very awake in a silver pot, on the french dressed table ( Embroidered tablecloth,etc.) .. Sometimes I was singing... forgetting my friend was deep sleeping in the next room... After that I took a long bath in low warm water (35-36°c) in perfumed water, and then I was ready to go to bed. I am a little sleepper (5h) but there I needed 7 hours. It is not a socialised life. You no more see your friends and family enough, progressively the skin gets whiter and whiter like aspirin and near transparent like these animals living in the deepth of oceans! The day you come back after the ligt of the fog the bright sun blinds you. You survive if you are able to see life as a play. (Visit the freightdogs pprune forum :))

Why are the cars so dangerous to tired drivers and inoccuupants? Why don't we have enough trains during the night , going to airports ? In many new countries you find cheap taxis.

DANGER OF BEEING TIRED, DRUNK , DRUGED, MEDIC USER IS FIRST A SOCIETY CHOICE WHICH DOES NOT WORRIES ABOUT MEN, WOMEN AT WAR OR WORKING HARD IN PEACE
TIME WITH CRISIS. IT IS NOT AN NDIVIDUAL CHOICE.
Who worried about Machinbird's safety flying his F-4 , and micronaps during alert5 in his cockpit in the war zone?
All the pilots know that error is paid with life, not with blame, and we chosed that. The best protection is to know how YOUR body is working with fatigue and sleep.

[Machinbird]

Quote:
I can almost imagine a tired crew doing a difficult night approach in the weather, and then microsleeping during the rollout. Does anyone have any stories to relate along that line?
not the way it would happen my friend.
from my experience a micro sleep is caused by the utter exhaustion of the underlying brain circuitry. the micro sleep allows the circuitry to be put out of action and the blood supply to slightly replenish the circuitry.

you are a danger to yourself because you still believe deep down that it is something that is predictable and can be managed.
you cannot predict when it will occur. you may never be aware of your last micro sleep because your shattered body will have ceased living.

as one who has been through this and no longer suffers it, CHANGE YOUR LIFESTYLE.
dubbleyew eight
I know that you have the best of intentions in your post, however you completely mis-perceive my intent in starting this thread. I have a somewhat analytical approach to life, and when I observe something that I cannot explain, I file it away while awaiting more data.

Well, I have received more data and have made a connection that can be useful to others. To keep that information to myself when I know that others are encountering a similar problem would be selfish and uncaring.

I have been personally concerned about the effects of microsleep ever since that night I microslept while flying an A-4E Skyhawk at FL350 with no functional autopilot. Fortunately I was immediately awakened by my head falling down under the weight of the helmet and oxygen mask. (See picture below for those who think Cessna when you see the word Skyhawk.:})
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/A-4E_VA-164_1967.JPEG/300px-A-4E_VA-164_1967.JPEG

The earlier post by roulishollandais regarding an "Almost Home" accident reminded me of the similar situation that happened to my wife. There may be a valid "Almost Home" microsleep effect. This would be a good area for further study by those whose profession is doing sleep research.

Unless you are a professional sleep researcher with specific information on the subject, your "not the way it would happen my friend." comment is strictly an opinion.
Consider this post by 8driver
I've gone into microsleeps on a number of occasions, one that I remember was on final approach to PHL back in 1993 at a regional. http://www.pprune.org/7995328-post193.html
For one who has been struggling to stay awake, particularly in a highly automated aircraft, the fact that you are on approach with the end of the flight in sight may be enough of a relief factor to trigger a microsleep event.


I cannot imagine falling asleep on the final phases of a night carrier approach, the adrenaline factor and heart beat rate is too high, but I do know of an A-7 driver who had had an interesting time over the beach with SAMs and then flew into the water on his second night approach following a bolter.(He ejected and survived to tell the tale.) I know of an F-4 crew that both fell asleep while on autopilot while pointed toward an unfriendly country(but non-participating in the war of that time). It was a close thing.:ooh: Like it or not, lack of sleep and aviation have had a long history together. Until such time that aircrews are replaced by robots, we are going to have to contend with fatigue and manage it. Accidents such as the Mangalore one have the fingerprints of fatigue and sleep problems as well as bad CRM. http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/415912-air-india-express-b738-crash.html

[john_tullamarine]

I can almost imagine a tired crew doing a difficult night approach in the weather, and then microsleeping during the rollout.

Indeed, I DO recall a tired crew shooting a simple, easy, and quite familiar visual approach at O-dark-thirty (L188 freighter) when the PF nodded off entering the flare .. fortunately the other chap was sufficiently with it to push the throttles forward and save the day ...

My view is that anyone who doesn't believe the reality of microsleep .. just hasn't yet had (or realised he/she has had) the experience.

[Machinbird]

Who worried about Machinbird's safety flying his F-4 , and micronaps during alert5 in his cockpit in the war zone?
All the pilots know that error is paid with life, not with blame, and we chosed that. The best protection is to know how YOUR body is working with fatigue and sleep.
roulishollandais
I have to correct a small mis-perception.
USN Fighter crews were assigned to 5 minute alert status for 4 hour watches during a ship's non-flying hours in the operating area while we were in combat. This was in addition to your regular flying assignments although some scheduling accommodations were made to allow additional rest.
Although my back seater could nap on the wing, I considered it vital to stay strapped in in order to meet the 5 minute launch criterea. It was possible to sleep in the cockpit that way (Shoulder harness unlocked, helmet on stick, kneeboard on helmet, head on kneeboard) but I was extremely concerned about sleep inertia (before it had even been given a name) and I set up every switch in the cockpit so as to have the minimum steps before launch. I was very thankful that I never had a night launch under those conditions.

So during non-flying cycle, night 5 minute alerts, sleep inertia was the hazard, not microsleeps.

My view is that anyone who doesn't believe the reality of microsleep .. just hasn't yet had (or realised he/she has had) the experience.
Thank you for the example John. I would hope everyone who flies and drives learns the reality of microsleep susceptibility and the difficulty of its recognition. Perhaps this information needs to make it into driver education courses since that is a larger, more inclusive class of individuals than pilots.

[roulishollandais]

I considered it vital to stay strapped in in order to meet the 5 minute launch criterea. It was possible to sleep in the cockpit that way (Shoulder harness unlocked, helmet on stick, kneeboard on helmet, head on kneeboard)Can we say it is a micronap or a mininap, effectively with the risk of sleep inertia?
From experience in my family sleep inertia is very different from person to person.Cycles of sleeping may be mesured for oneself. I may have micronaps of 3 minutes, mininaps of around 15 minutes. Naps of 1h½. Normal night sleep of 5 hours, day sleep of 7 hours. I never use an alarm to wake up. When I want to rest I am focusing how long I will sleep, and then took my mind in kind thoughts, nothing more and I am very quickly asleep. When it is time to awake, I awake and I am standing up and work very quickly. But once I experienced a difference in awakening after a broken ankle I had steel and nickel in my leg and foot. I could jump parachute but my foot was blocked 5° lower on one side, and when awakening I was no more so rapid to be in action as I used to be, and thought that metal was the cause of that. Finaly the surgers accepted to retire that metallic stuff, and I recovered the quick well awackening immediately and the ankle was no moe blocked. The surger thought that, as I am always moving, having the foot blocked was a psychologic stress which affected my waking up. I still imagine that that metal in the body was the difference with static electricity or friction electricity micro-current.
If I am awaked in the middle of the night 5h sleep I need to 3h½ in one part to get rested. I learned that only late in my life by myself. It seems that skippers of sailer races are learning new ways to rest ?

[roulishollandais]

That is an interesting comment. Can you show the statistics you referenced?
Hi Machinbird,
I found ie these web references in English and French about "Almost Home " accidents .
Data are insurance data.
Thank you for your important search.

Préparer son déplacement (http://www.calyxis.fr/index.php?/2008071857/ESPACE-PARTICULIERS/Risques-routiers/Preparer-son-deplacement.html)
" Accidents at night are 33% of total body accidents and 46% of deaths. 2/3 of fatal accidents occur during a journey of less than 10 km, close to home or a lodging facility. These are journeys school-home, work-home or home-party locations."

are accidents more likely closer to home - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&site=webhp&ei=gkcsUsq8A6ev0QXU3oH4BA&q=are+accidents+more+likely+closer+to+home&oq=are+accidents+more+likely+closer+to+home&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...0.0.0.67789.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..26.mobi le-gws-serp..0.0.0.4V0BBzhFONk)

[Machinbird]

More aviation microsleep examples on a related thread: http://www.pprune.org/8069013-post32.html

I suspect the "almost home" subclass of microsleep incidents is valid. There are three examples here in Admiral's post.

[roulishollandais]

The thread: Both pilots admit being asleep had disapeared !:mad: ?

[Jetdriver]

As indeed would this one, if (in this case) machinbird decided to delete the first post. Don't let that get in the way of a good conspiracy though.

[roulishollandais]

So I understand that Admiral who opened the thread deleted his thread opening post and the whole thread disapeard? PPRuNe deleted some opening post already, isn't ? Could a sponsoring airline get from PPRuNe that an opening post get deleted?

It is important to have a thread about fatigue, Machinbird opened the first as in different crashes threads pilots posted they were too tired during approach before the project of european law modification pushed someones to build a transient more activist thread . We can no more do as if microsleeps did not happen in airlines after what we read (that I printed).

Please Machinbird don't delete your opening post! Thank you.:) It is important for air safety to know how to manage suffisant rest before the flights. The rules vary very much from state to state.

This thread was opened in a flightdeck forum, which is the PPRuNe's process to displace a thread?