Looking for flight school recommendations in the NE UK

[M_broFlyer]

Hello! I am looking to get my PPL and then maybe CPL later on. I am currently working full time so this isn't an instant-career-change but more like getting-my-foot-in-the-door and see where it leads me.

I am living in Middlesbrough, and I know Durham Tees and Newcastle are nearby airports so I was wondering if anyone here was "local" to the area and can recommend any flight school from personal experience. I have no background in aviation so I don't know exactly what to look for.

Thanks for your time!

[Poolietom]

Hi, i did my PPL(A) at St George Flight Training about 6 years ago. Seemed a good school to me, instructor was good!

However, they have just been bought by Durham Tees Flight Training, but i've heard that currently very little is going to change (a/c, instructors etc)

[G-F0RC3]

Since when was Durham Tees Valley NE UK? := NE England, perhaps, but it's pretty central in latitude as far as the UK on the whole is concerned.

I've flown into Durham a few times. It seems a nice little airport, but I couldn't say what the local club is like as I didn't meet any of them. :p

[JDA2012]

Ha, knew you would get that response from one of the Scots - quite correct of course, and to be fair I've been to the definitive NE UK (Unst, Shetland) and you soon learn how far it is from Manchester in the "north" :p

On a more relevant point, I learnt at ANT in Blackpool. They are certainly worth checking out, got me through my PPL in just four weeks (three if not counting bad weather days) and are very friendly and competitively-priced - see also http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/511455-28-day-20-flying-45h50m-ppl-completed-ant-blackpool.html.

If a bit far for you, I have heard very good things about, and was impressed on visiting, York Flying School at Breighton. Ultimately that was a bit too far of a drive for me, but also offered a friendly service at a very good price.

I am afraid I have not been any nearer to Middlesbrough just yet (since I started flying - I was born there), so cannot recommend anything closer other than to note that I have been looking into flying into Redcar and came to the conclusion that my only options were DTV or Yearby (farm strip), so if you do find another decent airfield nearby please do share!

[fa2fi]

With NCL expect lots of holding due to commercial flights. As MME barely has any flights delays are a lot less. Last time I looked it was slightly cheaper at MME. It's been a while but if you need to clear security in MME then is recommend NCL as its a lot less hassle. Onced you've qualified NCL is a lot more professional and it's quicker to get an airside ID. I gave up on getting a pass from MME five years ago as I got sick of all the beaurocracy and the attitude of the woman dealing with it.

So perhaps easier flying at MME, but overall NCL is a better airport. You could also try The Great Circle in North Yorkshire.

[OldManJoe]

DTFT (http://www.dtft.co.uk) is the one to go to at Durham Tees Valley Airport (aka Teesside)
I believe they've just bought out St. George Flight Training.

Did some training there in the past. Brilliant instructors.

I'd steer clear of the others purporting to offer flight training at the airport!! History has a habit of repeating itself!!

[M_broFlyer]

I went around on the weekend and it seems that there used to be four flight schools at Teesside airport... St. George is merging with Durham Tees Flight Training, Cleveland Flight School is gone (but the website is still up), and the place is now occupied by Teesside Flight Training.

I also went to Newcastle airport and all I could find was Northumbria Flying School which also merged with St. George. Apparently, NFS is partners with DTFT, so although the aircraft hire was cheaper by about £20 per hour, there really was no reason to go all the way to Newcastle if I can just do the training in DTFT.

I would have to say that I was quite disappointed with what I saw... I guess I did not know what to expect but now I'm just confused:

St. George - very nice website, everything was clear and explained in simple terms. The office was a small building similar to this (http://www.portakabin.co.uk/pacemaker.html). Quite tidy, but small... I guess I expected the school to be bigger.

I was aiming to speak with one of the instructors here but I was told they were all out flying so I just got to peek into their offices/rooms.

DTFT - again, professionally-done website, lots of info and pics. The office was contained in one-half of a building but the outside was a stark contrast to the website --- if I did not know of the website, I would've thought THIS school was the one going out of business. Apparently, they plan to move to the St. George office once the merge is complete.

I spoke with a young lad who was apparently a newly-licensed pilot who I guess was there working to build up hours as well. Their CFI was away on holiday, and the other instructor was a young man.... probably younger than me! On the plus side, I was handed a small folder with everything I needed to know on it, prices, schedules, etc.

Teesside Flight Training - this was the one that impressed me the most, but again, confused me. The website was done clearly by someone who just slapped everything together and can't-be-bothered to make sure it looked right. There is no mention of what aircraft they own, their gallery is mostly pics from the internet and what looks like actual pics are too tiny to make out. Why bother with a gallery page at all? Figuring out pricing for anything except the "gift flights" was close to impossible!

However, their actual office was nice and roomy, with a "lecture room" that probably had as much space as the entire offices of the first two schools. They have a bar and it was possible to have great views of the airfield from where you can sit. I can imagine this place to be a great location to meet with friends before/after flying. The downside was that to enter the airfield, they had to use the only gate that was nearer to DTFT.

I spoke with the owner/manager and this appears to be a family-run business with the owner doing the flying and instructing and the rest of the family handling the finances or running the bar. The owner was kind enough to answer a good few questions and as he was an older guy, I guess that's why he seemed to "know his way around" more than the younger guys I've spoken with.

Northumbria Flying School - this was another school with a very-well-done website, but was the most run-down school in terms of physical appearance. Apparently, their office/hangar was built around the 1930's and that's still the same building they're using now!

I spoke with a kind, elderly gentleman who was apparently the owner of the school. He was the one that informed me that his school and DTFT were now partners, and that his hangar/facilities were being used for maintenance of the DTFT aircraft.


So anyway, those are my thoughts regarding the schools I've visited. I've seen the aircraft that the schools use, but only from "behind the fence" so no close-up inspections. Aside from these, I know very little about this so I'm not sure I know what to look for or what questions to ask.

@ Poolietom: thanks for recommending St. George, but as they're merging with DTFT, I guess it'll be DTFT I'll be joining if I decide to go that way.

@G-F0RC3: lol, sorry, I meant NE England.

@ JDA2012: thanks for the link and congratulations on your PPL! Unfortunately, unless I'm really desperate or the local schools put me off totally, I would think Newcastle (40-min drive) is the furthest I'd like to go. I don't want to imagine driving home for more than an hour after a tiring day of flying. York is just over an hour, and that's if there's no traffic.

@ fa2fi: yeah, I've been told that it's better to train out of Teesside airport since it has the equipment and runway but there are less commercial flights so less waiting time. Also, the airport fees for T&G and landings are about half of Newcastle airport's fees. I'm not sure what you mean about "clearing security" though. Care to explain?

@ OldManJoe: thanks for recommending DTFT! If they had the same organization but had the facilities Teesside Flight Training have, I'd have signed up by now. I'm not sure I follow what you say about "steering clear of others... history, etc," please explain!

Thanks!

[M_broFlyer]

Hmmm... Are flight schools monitored in any way? Do they have to apply to be a flight school? I'm guessing not just anyone can set up shop and do business if they have a couple of GA aircraft, so is there any organization that regulates flight schools?

Same questions for CFIs... I'm guessing not just anyone can teach someone else to fly, but how do I check if my flight instructor is legit?

I don't want to be spending money and time and find out later on I'll have to re-do some things and spend more money just because I was conned.

[piperboy84]

To be honest with the current state of GA in Europe and to a certain degree the US, a builders buchtie and cheap website are about all you can expect with the cost of operations/insurance and regulations that schools have to work under, however i would not let the apparent lack of investment in bricks and mortar be an indication of the qualities of the school or individual instructors. Pretty much every flight school operates on a financial knife edge. having a good chat with potential instructors is the best way to get to comfort level as to training syllabus etc. and as has been said repeatedly on here NEVER PAY UPFRONT, just pay as you go . good luck.

There is an old saying the the aviation/flight school business:

How to you end up with a small fortune in the aviation business?
Start with a large one !!!

[foxmoth]

Same questions for CFIs... I'm guessing not just anyone can teach someone else to fly, but how do I check if my flight instructor is legit?

All instructors should have a valid instructor rating - the school should have checked this, and good schools will have a system that lets them know when it needs renewing, if you are particularly concerned you could ask to see the guys licence - you might get an odd look, but most will be happy to show you.
As far as oversight of schools go, the CAA is responsible for this, they do not monitor standards that effectively, but will have made sure there are certain facilities in place - sure there will be someone else come on and give more details than I can.:8

[M_broFlyer]

Fair enough, but I always think that a good first impression is important. Hence, seeing a nice website but then going to a tired-old-building just doesn't inspire confidence. They may have top-notch instructors but those who never make it through the front door will never know.

[GeorgEGNT]

Durham is rather expensive to land at if I recall. Popped in a few times on various training flights and it was £35 or so to land. I paid an extra £10 handling fee too (flew in from NCL) but I'm assuming the FS's don't pay that.

NCL is cheaper to land however you can spend a long time holding unlike at DTV. I also guess with you being from Middlesbrough the travel to NCL would hike up the cost to match the more expensive DTV landing fees.

I can't talk about the instructors at Tees Valley but the NFS crowd are friendly and helpful. A lot of the instructors I knew have moved on but I've done a couple of D/C's with one of the current instructors and he is great. The building at NFS is run down but they make up for it in other areas. They have big plans for for that that place too with rumours of other types in the pipeline. They've got Cessna's, PA28s and now a PA38. It's definitely a flying school to keep your eyes on.

[M_broFlyer]

As I don't even know what a legit license looks like, I doubt if I can know enough of a flight school to know if I should walk away or not.

GeorgEGNT, from what I've seen from the DTFT pricing vs. the NFS pricing, touch-and-go and landing fees on Teesside airport are cheaper.

[GeorgEGNT]

In that case there must be some sort of agreement between the based schools and the airport? My apologies!

The best advice is to pop in and have a chat. Maybe even fly a trial lesson. Ask to have a look around maybe see one of the aircraft. The best school will (well... should) happily accommodate you.

P.S. Have an open mind. I've seen whats been said about building conditions etc. Make sure you make it through the front door and meet the people behind it.

[foxmoth]

As I don't even know what a legit license looks like, I doubt if I can know enough of a flight school to know if I should walk away or not.

Well if you go in and ask to see some licenses that will show you, if the second shows you something different then ask why (there are a couple of different ones around, especially ATM), but a dud one I would suspect will stand out.

[M_broFlyer]

Hahaha.... the problem is, all three schools have very helpful staff. To be honest, the best help I got was from the owner of Teesside Flight Training as I was able to ask a lot of questions and was swamped by the answers. Like I said, the guy was an older gentleman which I assume was the reason why he knows a bit more than the younger FIs on the other schools

By the time I got to NFS, I didn't have as many questions but the owner was still very kind enough to answer what I had to ask and show me around.

So if I were to decide by "helpful staff," there really isn't a clear winner.

If I were to decide by "building condition," Teesside Flight Training would be the top choice.

If I were to decide by "aircraft condition," NFS would win, I guess, as they had more aircraft, had a repair facility (they service the DTFT aircraft), and so on. As NFS is a good distance, I would say TFT and DTFT would tie as both had a few aircraft, well-worn but still going.


While it would seem that I would sign up with TFT, a quick search brought up this topic right here in PPRuNe (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/491381-teeside-flight-training.html). I'm not entirely sure what it means, but it doesn't inspire much confidence in TFT if it is true. Anyone got insight into this? Or maybe have a read at the linked threads and "translate it to layman's terms" for a newbie?

[OhNoCB]

I have no prior knowledge of TFT or Cloud 9 so if someone else comes along with a better idea then by all means prioritise answers.

That thread you linked to suggests to me at a quick glance that TFT may have a slightly shady ownership/management. In theory this shouldn't have any effect on a lesson by lesson basis in that the instructors should be there because they want to work any should give you instruction as per anywhere else.

The only thing I would make extra sure of is that you don't give any money in advance/up front. You have probably read/been given this advice already (I didn't read earlier posts in this thread), even some of the old and good clubs and schools are hitting the dirt at the minute due to the economical climate, but it is even more so the case if there is ANYTHING that may indicate that there is any instability in the operation.

[cockney steve]

Firstly....I'm NOT a pilot!

Buy a logbook! AFAIK, ANY hours you fly, provided they are properly signed off by your instructor, will count towards the mandatory minimum required for the granting of a licence.

Are you wanting to rent a fancy office ,website and the like, or would you prefer top class tuition in a well-maintained aircraft?- Yes , the "window-dressing" is important, but the cake is only so big,- if too much is spent on eye-candy, something else has to suffer.
have a good shufty through the backposts, there's a lot of information to be gleaned, also have a look at the "flyer" forum,- you'll see a lot of familiar names from here!

"trial lessons" (see note above, re-signing -off!) will enable you to meet different instructors....it's important you get on with the person, have confidence in them and their teaching-style and personality is a fit with you. You are going to spend a considerable amount of money with them!
Undoubtedly, you'll just "click" with one....that means you'll enjoy the experience and should learn quicker.

GOLDEN RULE...PAY AS YOU GO....Never pay in advance (OK to pay before you book out on the day! ) but don't sod-off and "forget" to settle today's bill either...the trust works both ways and a business will respect a prompt payment.

Good luck, enjoy your flying, enjoy choosing!

[M_broFlyer]

Hmmm... I hadn't considered that. My main fear was that I would be conned out of my money and end up with a license that was taken in a way that was not proper (ie, illegal), perhaps because the person who ran the school/offered the exams/flew the checkrides were not qualified/rated to do so.

So far, none of the schools are asking for money up front and I will remember to walk away from such practice.

I guess the best thing to do is to schedule a trial flight with the other school.... the thing is -- with TFT, I don't see a problem with the school itself. In fact, if it weren't for the thread linked, I'd have signed up with them long ago! The instructor that I flew with was a great chap as well! Now if I schedule a flight with DTFT, I might get the "great guy" CFI or the "new guy" younger instructor. I don't want to schedule a flight with one guy but end up training with another.

One thing I was considering was booking a ground school session with both schools as well to see their way of teaching. I'm currently making my way through Air Law & Met and I would greatly appreciate a bit of help.

cockney steve, I wonder why you are in PPRuNe if you are not a pilot... Do you mean you are still a student? As for hours flow, I must admit I've not bought a logbook yet but I do have a "log" of my first trial flight on a piece of paper. My instructor wrote down all the pertinent info on that sheet. I figure I can easily transfer that later on to a proper logbook? On the subject of logbooks, I wonder which one to buy? A quick look at the Flightstore page and it seems there are lots of different varieties!

As for website building, I would think that is a one-off cost, with the monthly cost being the "rent" of the web space. How hard would it be to do it professionally the first time?

[Flyingmac]

DTFT is the ONLY one you should be considering. :=

PS. Who's LOL?

[foxmoth]

On the subject of logbooks, I wonder which one to buy? A quick look at the Flightstore page and it seems there are lots of different varieties!

If you are looking to work in aviation forget a paper logbook, go for an electronic one - WAY easier when filling in application forms - DO back it up and print a summary on a regular basis.

[cockney steve]

@ Flyingmac.. LOL= Laugh Out Loud

@ M_broFlyer... I have a long-held interest in Aviation, dating from the 1950's when there were plenty of balsawood kits available for aeromodellers.
In later life, I was fortunate to be able to do a few jollies in an Aeronca Chief as well as the usual spamcans -152 &172, a ride in a Rans 6, Aeronca Champ...... There's a certain satisfaction in swinging a wooden prop and the engine bursting into life :)
Attempted to fly model helicopters, but even a 30-size Nitro machine is about £50 per "landing" to fettle :O
so I have a R.C. simulator that "flies" with a real or dummy transmitter.
I came to PPrune Via "Cockpit Conversation" a Blog by a Canadian Aviatrix . Enjoy the mental stimulus, the banter, the ambience of PPrune and hopefully am able to pass on something helpful to others.
I've never had the spare cash to fly, but never say never!

[M_broFlyer]

"Work in aviation" is a long way off, maybe a year or so down the line. So looking for a paper-logbook for now! :)

cockney steve, thanks for the clarification!

[OldManJoe]

I'm lead to believe DTFT's owner is also part owner of Northumbria Flying School.