Upgrade IMCR (SEP) to IMCR (MEP)

[2close]

Hi guys,

I am fully up to speed with the requirements for upgrading a SE IR to a ME IR but for the past few years I have only maintained a SE IR as I have had no use for a ME IR.

However, I may now have need (for private purposes) of IF privileges for a MEP.

The simplest and cheapest solution it would appear would be to extend the SE IMCR (or IR(R) if you prefer) to a MEP IMCR.

Whilst CAP 804 doesn't specify any minimum training requirements, would it be safe to apply (as a minimum) the same as for SE IR to ME IR upgrade, i.e. 5 hours ME training (3 x FNPT II & 2 x a/c) + Skill Test?

:confused:

[nick14]

Have you held an ME/IR in the past, if so I would imagine that you won't need any training. Just go to an ATO and see what they reccommend for refresher training and then test.

[Whopity]

If you are MEP qualified and have an IMCR it is valid on any aeroplane you are qualified to fly including MEP. If you chose to revalidate it on a twin, then you have to demonstrate the asymmetric parts. There is no "upgrade" and never has been.

[Level Attitude]

As Whopity says the IMC Rating gives privileges for aeroplanes in general,
not for specific Classes (or Types?)

As a Pilot would achieve the same privileges, irrespective if the IMC Flight Test
was conducted in an SEP or MEP, it does seem incongruous (at least to me)
that the mandatory test items are different depending which aircraft Class
is flown for the actual Test.
Anyone know how/why this arose?

2close
Just to confirm: You must have a valid IMC/IR(R) to fly MEP IFR in the
circumstances you've outlined - your valid SE IR does not count as
an IMC rating.

If you have previously held an IMC rating then the Examiner who
conducted your last IR Test can sign to renew your IMC (as the IR Test
contains all the elements of an IMC Test).

If you have never held an IMC Rating then you would need to apply
to the CAA for an IR(R). Your IR credits you all learning and training
requirements and your last IR Test (provided within last 24 months)
counts as your IMC Test. Basically just a paperwork and fee paying
exercise.

In fact I would recommend the above to all IR holders who have never
held an IMC. You never know what you might want in the future and,
currently, no new IR(R)s will be issued after April 2014.

[S-Works]

Anyone know how/why this arose?

Several years ago the CAA formed an IR and IMCr working group on which I sat. They were tasked with looking at the requirements for the IMCr and picked up on the discrepancy that you could do an IMCr in a SEP and then go off an use it ME without any further training or testing. It was decided that we should change the wording so that if you wanted to test in a ME then you had to demonstrate some basic single engine stuff. They also added the requirement for revalidation/renewal. I can't remember if the latter appeared in LASORS before its demise in the end.

[Whopity]

If we go way back into CAP53 pre 1998 it states:

A revalidation Flight Test which is a first multi-engine test must include (f) at paragraph 4.

4
(f) Flight with Asymmetric Power

(1) Control of the aeroplane and maintenance of a given heading and asymmetric climb speed, following the failure of one engine in the climbing configuration at normal climb power.
(2) Identification of the failed engine and the completion of all essential drills and checks.
(3) Climbing and level turns in asymmetric flight as directed by the Examiner.

NOTE: Throughout item (f) of the test, the Examiner will be responsible for navigation and ATC liaison. On resumption of normal flight the candidate will be told the position of the aeroplane. Feathering will be simulated by the Examiner on completion of the correct touch drills by the candidate.

There have not been any changes to the IMC rating since the demise of CAP53. LASORS was a straight copy from CAP53.

[Level Attitude]

bose-x, thanks for your answer.

you could do an IMCr in a SEP and then go off an use it ME without any further training or testing

As the above still applies would it be correct to assume that, having amended
the test schedule for ME, there was an omission to specify that IMC privileges
could only be exercised in ME aircraft if the IMC test had been conducted in an ME.

[Whopity]

there was an omission to specify that IMC privileges
could only be exercised in ME aircraft if the IMC test had been conducted in an ME.That would have required a change to the law, a lengthy process and the CAA did not want to open up a bag of worms as there was no safety case to justify it.