Turkish pilots kidnapped in Beirut

[LNAV VNAV -]

Turkish pilots kidnapped in Beirut
Xinhua | August 09, 2013 14:40
By Agencies




Two Turkish pilots were kidnapped in Beirut early Friday by gunmen as they were heading to a hotel in the Lebanese capital, the LBCI channel reported.

Turkish Ambassador Inan Ozyildiz told the TV channel that he was following up the case, hoping that Lebanese authorities would work for their release.

[Ottoforce]

Sorry to hear the news BUT Turkish flies to many risk destinations with no regard for personnel security.
Mogadishu,Sanaa,Tripoli, Benghazi and a host of others where there are no guarantees of safety and in fact Governments warn of the risk of going to them.
It seems THY don't have a risk assessment dept, if they do they have no regard for the actual risk just for operating the flights.
Duos any body know if insurance is valid in these placis.
Hope the Pilots come home safely.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

So, AF, BA, EK, LH are all reckless cowboys operating there?

[telecaster]

MrM5.5

I dont think that was the point Otto was making

[Booglebox]

MrM5.5, AFAIK other majors don't night stop there - they just turn around and fly straight out.

[huseyin]

Turkish Airlines flies all these risky destinations with or without night stop.. until now, as I check with colleagues there, they were not think Beirut is unsafe until today early morning.. but as a turkish airline worker in another company , I can exactly underline that they fly most of these countries due to goverment's political strategy..

[archer_737]

I've operated in Beirut with 2 different companies having many layovers there with my first employer.
Once I even brought my wife with me.
Downtown is beautiful. We went out to a caves in the mountain called Jeita Grotto. Jeita Grotto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeita_Grotto)
Been there many times. Out by night in a club, having dinner... and no, no single guy considered Beirut as a dangerous place.
Plenty of expats, american university...

[Deep and fast]

I was there for 5 nights last autumn and had a very nice time and thought the place had moved on from conflict.

Then reading the news 2 weeks later the was unrest in the streets where I was and 16 people were shot.

There is always the chance of things flaring up and nutter kidnappings are not only for religious and political reasons, there is just the criminal element jumping on the bandwagon.

The key is secure transport and good backup with insurance for all risks.

Keep safe out there.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

I've just read that THY fly direct into Mogadishu... from my limited experiences that's possibly the last place on earth I'd want to spend a night. :=

[andrasz]

Unfortunatey it is just another case of risks and rewards. Such destinations are a goldmine for the few operators willing to take the chance, because the only people flying there need to, and usually have veeery deep pockets (or rather the organisation sending them). From such revenues it is possible to pay both the insurance premiums and the exrta risk pay to crew. And if there is a fat reward dangling, there will alays be a few who will say yes. Does Air America ring a bell to anyone ... ?

PS: I don't know if TK actually pays extra to crew on these flights (Beyrut not necessarily, but Mogadishu, Benghasi, Sebha, etc), would anyone know ?

[kumbaya]

There is no extra payment for these flights.

I'm surprised this happened in Beirut considering the other destinations for THY lay-overs......
There are some places deemed very dangerous by several countries and THY just tells their pilots not to worry and no extra safety precautions are made.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Why would THY fly to Mogadishu? What's the connection between Turkey and Somalia for heaven's sake?

[silverstrata]

Sorry to hear the news BUT Turkish flies to many risk destinations with no regard for personnel security.


Indeed they do, and so do the smaller ones too. And this gives a huge dilemma to the expats working over there. For instance, Antonio Planas, a Spanish pilot for Saga Airlines, was killed while on a nightstop in Kabul back in 2011.

Spanish pilot killed in Taliban attack on Kabul hotel (http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/19785/spanish-pilot-killed-in-taliban-attack-on-kabul-hotel)

I am not sure that Turkish management are fully aware of the differences in a Muslim Turk visiting such locations, and an infidel Christian visiting the same place. Being obviously Western/European marks one out as a possible target in many of these backward nations.

[AVIATION REFUGEE]

Any news, about the nationality of the pilot's?

[silverstrata]

Refugee:

Any news, about the nationality of the pilots?
(Without the greengrocer's apostrophe.)




Murat Akpinar and Murat Agca - both Turkish.

[AVIATION REFUGEE]

thanks for the info!

[Mister Geezer]

I've just read that THY fly direct into Mogadishu... from my limited experiences that's possibly the last place on earth I'd want to spend a night.

Unless there is a Tech issue, then that won't be the case as THY don't nightstop their crews in Mogadishu, nor at any of the other colourful places mentioned.

One is more likely to comes into harms way on the streets of many another city, before you would in Tripoli or Benghazi.

[MaxBlow]

I pray for my collegues and hope they'll be released soon and nothing bad happens.

Most likely they'll be scheduled for max duties by TK crew scheduling the day after their return to IST as they had days off. Maybe they trade in some vacation days:rolleyes:

[Eclectic]

Surely this is a result of the Shia/Sunni religious war in Syria and Iraq.
Turkey is largely Sunni and Hezbollah are Shiite.
There have already been a series of recent events between the two sects in Lebanon. This could well be the latest.

Good luck to the guys involved, let's hope they are back with their families soon.

[GF4RCE]

I've just read that THY fly direct into Mogadishu... from my limited experiences that's possibly the last place on earth I'd want to spend a night.
No they THY fly via Djibouti. The crew layover in Djibouti and then do a JIb-MGQ-JIB-IST.

Ottoforce:
Sorry to hear the news BUT Turkish flies to many risk destinations with no regard for personnel security.
Mogadishu,Sanaa,Tripoli, Benghazi and a host of others where there are no guarantees of safety and in fact Governments warn of the risk of going to them.
It seems THY don't have a risk assessment dept, if they do they have no regard for the actual risk just for operating the flights.
Duos any body know if insurance is valid in these placis.

so all the other carriers flying to BEY are reckless and have no regards for the crews safety nor the people travelling there with their families value safety for their loved ones??????

On contrary to what some are implying here, THY has a risk assessment department and hence organise the operations relative to the risk... to make such an accusation that they put lives at risk with no regards is abit unfair, especially if you have limited knowledge on what goes on behind the scenes.

lets all hope our fellow aviators are reunited safe and sound with their family and loved ones soon.

[Eclectic]

Confirmed: Kidnap in Lebanon linked to Syrian war - Middle East News | Latest News Headlines | The Irish Times - Sat, Aug 10, 2013 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/kidnap-in-lebanon-linked-to-syrian-war-1.1489978)

Turkey urged its citizens to leave Lebanon after a militant group claimed the abduction early yesterday of two Turkish airline pilots travelling in a shuttle bus from Beirut’s international airport to their hotel.
The group, calling itself Zuwwar Imam Ali al-Reda, demanded the release of nine Lebanese Shia pilgrims held since May 2012 by a Syrian rebel faction.
“[The pilots] are our guests until the hostages . . . are freed,” said the group, which blames Ankara for the abduction of the Shias by the rebel Free Syrian Army’s Northern Storm brigade operating along the Turkish border.
Pilot Murat Akpinar and co-pilot Murat Agca were taken less than 1km from the airport in a largely Shia area. The group’s name is that of the Shia sect’s eighth imam, seen as the rightful successor to the Prophet Muhammad.
Lebanon’s interior minister Marwan Charbel said an investigation had been launched while Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davuloglu spoke to Lebanon’s caretaker prime minister Najib Mikati.....................more

[vfenext]

THY has a risk assessment department and hence organise the operations relative to the risk.
So I guess they need to sack the head of that department then!

[SRS]

They need to sack the airport security head, the army solders and policemen that saw it all and all the politicians in Lebanon.

Other than that one can have a great time in Lebanon.

[Bobbsy]

Just a SLF here but one with extensive experience working in the Middle East--including multiple visits to Beirut during the troubles in the 70s and 80s.

Since those troubles Beirut had been an increasingly safe destination, to the point were they were even beginning to get some of their tourist industry back.

Clearly this is changing for the worse again, likely as a result of the Syrian war and Hezboallah's involvement--but prior to this kidnapping I doubt Beirut would have shown up as a high risk destination. THY's reputation may or may not be deserved but in this particular circumstance it would have been very difficult to predict this kidnapping.

[India Charlie]

I've just read that THY fly direct into Mogadishu... from my limited experiences that's possibly the last place on earth I'd want to spend a night.

The THY website gives a romantic write up on Mogadishu and Kabul. I wonder who uses these flights... a famous international terrorist organisation with LTBA as transit hub Kabul not anymore perhaps, since hubs have shifted elsewhere, but with THY offering more than "150 destinations" (according to thier glossy advertisements), have a great way of getting around

Does anybody have any idea about navaids at MGQ? Inputs from drivers who dare to drag there would be most valuable. The Ottomans perhaps? :ouch:

[AirBuzio]

Does anyone know if Lufthansa, LOT, British Airways, Turkish, Vueling, Air France and Alitalia's crews stay over in Beirut at all? Because one thing is to go there on a single movement and fly somewhere else; another completely different is to stay for the night... Any clues on that? Is it safe to commute between the airport and the hotel? Any particular security measures known to have been implemented by any of these airlines?
Thanks in advance.

[TWT]

AirBuzio,I don't think you're likely to get any information about security measures of airline crews anywhere in the world on this forum for fairly obvious reasons.

[AirBuzio]

Thanks for the feedback anyway; I was not expecting any specifics, other than to know if operators are letting crews overnight at Beirut. That is of concern for me since we are considering operating there soon and I'm not comfortable about the possibility of an overnight stay. It seems prudent not to stay but I don't want to overeact to the current media hype on the matter. Any guidance on any credible sources? Thank you for your time.

[Farrell]

That is of concern for me since we are considering operating there soon and I'm not comfortable about the possibility of an overnight stay. It seems prudent not to stay but I don't want to overeact to the current media hype on the matter.

If you are not comfortable, then don't go. It is as simple as that.
There is no media overhype in this case. Two pilots were taken off a crew-bus in an attempt to leverage a release of prisoners in Lebanon.

Nothing overhyped about that. You have tensions on the rise between Syria and Turkey with Hezbollah and other splinter groups adding more spanners to the works - and they are going back to the age-old tactic of grabbing folks in the street.

The reality here is that these guys may already be dead, or they might be released soon or may follow the same fate as John McCarthy or Brian Keenan and spend the next decade being bundled from house to house.

You fly to Beirut or anywhere in the region with low opsec / persec, and factions allowed to run riot, and you risk getting nabbed.

(I know of a certain crew-bus operator over here that has a digital sign that lights up with the airline's name on it that flashes all the way from hotel to airport. They might as well just wave "Kidnap me" flags out the window. Here is not as much as a security risk but makes me wonder if the same is done in the Leb.)

It's all down to you. Go or no-go. How much is the job worth to you?
As someone said on here a while ago:
"Better to be alive and jobless...."

[AirBuzio]

I appreciate your straight to the point approach to the matter.

It truly seems like our concerns are legit then. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

[Farrell]

To add to the above.
While I know that some (sadly not all) airlines train their crews on how to deal with a hijack situation, virtually no-one goes through training on how to deal with long-term abduction with a lot of time in solitary confinement.

While kidnapping is still a rare event, it is something that I think every pilot / cc flying in certain regions should seriously consider personally investing some salary cash in.

Some ex-military aircrew are fortunate enough to go through R2I / SERE training. They will tell you how much its worth to have it.
Knowledge is power.

I have a mate who is a cameraman for a news company and has spent most of his career in hotspots. He has some great contacts for the above training if anyone is interested in the details.

[kitekruncher]

See this link:-

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/lebanon

Is it an option for you to drop your pax of and reposition to Cyprus?

[tu144]

I pray for my collegues and hope they'll be released soon and nothing bad happens.

Most likely they'll be scheduled for max duties by TK crew scheduling the day after their return to IST as they had days off. Maybe they trade in some vacation days

lol you are funny is it that bad @ thy?

[Farrell]

Kidnapped Turkish pilots in Lebanon speak in audio message | News , Lebanon News | THE DAILY STAR (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2013/Aug-29/229259-kidnapped-turkish-pilots-in-lebanon-speak-in-audio-message.ashx#axzz2eUbCriNg)

PressTV - Kidnapped Turkish pilots call for help from their government (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/08/30/321284/kidnapped-turkish-pilots-call-for-help/)

[Road_Hog]

POLITICS - Turkish FM meets families of kidnapped pilots in Lebanon (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-fm-meets-families-of-kidnapped-pilots-in-lebanon-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=54211&NewsCatID=338)

[FlexibleResponse]

...and check your Health and Life Insurance small print for non-payment in case of injuries or death suffered while operating a Civil Airliner into a zone of conflict, insurrection or war.

[Capt Groper]

No further replies indicating the outcome, have the pilots been released?

[CaptainProp]

Turkish pilots to be traded for Iranian agents? (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/09/turkey-pilots-kidnapped-lebanon-syria-iran-agents-swap.html)

Doesn't look they've been released.

[wingletflyer]

It's time to get together to set the tone to free our pilot colleagues. And to ensure the safety and security of passengers and crew.

QCzgJizZ6A4

[N1EPR]

This from a respected US analyst:
Turkey also appears to be making headway in negotiations involving Iran and Syria over the release of two Turkish pilots (wlmailhtml:{DA1FD4E8-1674-4C39-9689-E99CA7AEAB2F}mid://00000014/!x-usc:http://stratfor.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=74786417f9554984d314d06bd&id=121be01b5c&e=51bbc14bf5) who were kidnapped at gunpoint in Beirut in August, with rumors now circulating that the pilots could be released within days.

[Hempy]

I'd rather spend a night in the safest part of Beirut than the unsafest part of LA..

[Double Back]

The last link doesn't seem to work...

[Romeo E.T.]

CNN also showing footage of their (Turkish pilots) release

seems like a prisoner swap was undertaken, as 9 other prisoners were released on the other side, as part of the deal, CNN showing celebratory scenes.

[Airbus Unplugged]

Welcome home friends.

God knows what you must have been through.