LAC and Ashcroft Airfield

[742-xx]

What on earth is going on between LAC and the owner of Ashcroft ?
I've just looked on the Ashcroft website and they seem very upset about LAC.
It's even says that LAC are not welcome ?
As a member of LAC I am totally unaware of whats gone on, but there seems to be a lot of venom and accusations.

Anyone any ideas ?

[ShyTorque]

Having just looked at the website, all I can conclude is that there are some serious issues at that location. :hmm:

[muffin]

What a load of disjointed rubbish. You can't even work out what point the author is trying to make.

[742-xx]

What a load of disjointed rubbish. You can't even work out what point the author is trying to make.

By author I assume you mean of the website ?

Ashcroft Airfield (EGCR) (http://ashcroftair.co.uk/)

Seems very upset.
But what is the plane on the poor quality CCTV image ?
If it is an LAC plane it must be one of the Grobs, but it looks like a PA38 possibly ?

[ETOPS]

I could write pages about what has been going on - but I won't as I don't think I could get the story across without falling foul of various libel laws forum rules etc etc......:eek:

[JDA2012]

If it is an LAC plane it must be one of the Grobs, but it looks like a PA38 possibly ? I understand that the owner has issues with Lancashire Aero Club (http://www.lancsaeroclub.co.uk) not LAC Flying School - Barton Manchester, North West England (http://www.lacflyingschool.co.uk).

[ifonly]

Looks like 'Rigger Boots' are a pre-requisite of being a member of the Lancashire Aero Club !:)

Aircraft looks like a Piaggio 149 - not sure how many are around?

IO

[Ebbie 2003]

All very odd - reading the site does not make it clear what the problem is or has been.

Like the LAC landing fee being more than they could ever afford.

Seems odd that it is for sale but the sale will take 10/15 years.

Having some details of the problem may lead to some helpful suggestions as to how to solve it?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Having just looked at the website, all I can conclude ...
I can conclude that I don't want to land there. Avoid the risk of hassle, go somewhere else.

[ShyTorque]

I'd agree. Far less hassle to land at Manchester, Heathrow or Gatwick than that!

[Cows getting bigger]

One to miss, I think.

[stickandrudderman]

I'm sure it's nothing a little pugilism couldn't sort out.:E

[Dog's Bone]

Many locals know the story. Have a look on this web site. (http://www.lendf.co.uk/KenyonAirfield.html)

[742-xx]

Interesting. I work for Network Rail. I've just had to sign for a brief regarding KHF, it's location and what to do in the case of an emergency.

Where does the fine fella from Ashcroft fit in though ?
Does he live near there ? Or do the NIMBYs just represent some allies for his cause, whatever that is.

A mate of mine went to Ashcroft to discuss hangaring his microlight there. He says mid-conversation the owner just walked off and left him there.
He says he's never met such an ignorant ba*t*rd in all his life.

[magpienja]

I have been into Ashcroft 4 or five times in my microlight over the last 3-4 years...spoken to Steve a few times...seems ok to me...not had a problem.

2 sides to every story.

[RichardLeigh]

The CCTV photo does not show the Lancashire Aero Club or at least some of it's members in a very good light, LAC members are photographed essentially breaking-in to the airfield for whatever reason.

I'm sure there are two sides to this story but the photo of the rigger-booted group climbing over the fence appear an intimidating bunch, who seemingly weren't invited and had no business being there. If it were my airfield I think I'd be upset too, perhaps an apology might be in order and then leaving the owner of Ashcroft alone so he can get on with running his airfield?

[bingoboy]

I have not flown into Ashcroft since the field, when owned by the delightful gentleman Bryan Lockyear,used to have it's Ashkosh flyins and have only recently become a member of Lancs Aero Club.
I object to the current owner making blanket criticism of all Lancs Aero Club members.
If he has an issue with individuals who were and might still be members then I would expect him to be specific and name them as undesirables or whatever in the same way as he seems to have banned a Mr Parrish and not imply poor or un ethical behaviour on the part of all Lancs Aero Club members.

[kevfarthing]

I'm based in the South and was recently looking at flying up North to visit. I came across Ashcroft and though id give it a look. Now, I have never met the owner and know nothing about this issue with LAC. One thing is for sure: After looking at all the dirty laundry he is dishing out on the website and the bullish nature of the writing, I wont be visiting anytime soon and I know quite a few other pilots feel the same way. All this stuff with LAC should not be plastered all over the airfield website. Very unprofessional.

[gasax]

Seems to be a chap who would benefit from some time spent in a jacket with very long sleeves, fastened to the back!

Shame he is such a fruit cake and so determined to pursue his personal vendetta in any potential public forum.

[piperboy84]

No idea what the pissing match is about but noticed the following when reading the site:

[QUOTE]I suppose that’s true, apart from… buying flying rights (behind our backs during purchase proceedings) and not forgetting… Ransoming us with these Rights [quote]

Just as a matter of interest what exactly are flying rights and from whom would you buy them from?

[India Four Two]

what exactly are flying rights

Pre-paid landing fees for right-hand circuits, perhaps? Extra charge for lefties? ;)

[coldair]

It sounds rather like the Faulty Towers of airports.

I'll be giving this one a miss too.

[Kestrel]

Steve

If you are following this thread:

Displaying NO LAC visual from overhead your airfield paints you in very poor light. LAC flying school at Barton has zero affiliation to LAC. Lancs aero club and you would gain greater respect in taking the time in your quotes to qualify which LAC you are referring to.

Students that don't even know the situation who may use your airfield as a land-mark could associate it with the flying school they are learning from which in my view a tad unfair.

No sides being taken here just pointing this out to you.

Brgds

Kestrel

[soaringhigh650]

It seems to me that there's something incredibly creepy about Ashcroft.
The colorful diagrams on the website says it all.

Best to stay clear of it.

[Yogi-Bear]

FLYER Forums ? View topic - Troubled times oop north (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84612&hilit=Ashcroft) might elucidate. Happy reading! :uhoh:

[John atherton]

Look at his website now. Crazy.

[ETOPS]

There is an interesting postscript to this story, You will see from the website that Billington is very concerned about "high energy approaches" and features a number of pictures of the aircraft - a German registered Piaggio FW P.149D D-EARY. This was based at Barton and was flown into Ashcroft by the people with who he was having a legal dispute.

Last year - 2017 - the aircraft was sold and is now based over in Yorkshire and is very unlikely to be carrying out "high energy approaches" at Ashcroft ever again.

Even a glance at the website shows someone with a very loud bee in the bonnet..........

The result of the legal action will be interesting to say the least.

[ETOPS]

Trying to contact John atherton - your private message inbox is full so I can't reply to you. You will need to delete some messages there.

[Sam Rutherford]

I've just spent 5 minutes there, and have NO idea what it's all about.

For good or for bad, I'm not going to spend any more time on it.

If someone is trying to achieve something, it's not working.

[ETOPS]

Many apologies for having resurrected this old thread about the strange chap and even stranger website.

I've just picked up on the latest twist to this very sorry tale in that the "NOLAC" website has been taken down today. If you were one
of the many people mentioned on it you might feel some satisfaction.

[horatio_b]

Still viewable on the Wayback Machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220808222742/https://www.ashcroftair.co.uk/

[horatio_b]

Website now back again. Not publishing as much as previously but looks like Cheshire Flyers are now banned as well as Lancashire Aero Club
https://www.ashcroftair.co.uk/

[rb14]

I've flown in to Ashcroft numerous times over the past couple of years and found Steve to be a really love​​​ly, helpful guy. The only problem I ever had there was on final approach. l was shocked to see another light aircraft trainsiting directly across my approach path, slightly below Ashcroft circuit height. It certainly wasn't showing up on PAW. I mentioned it to Steve who suggested I completed and Airprox Report online. I did.

[ETOPS]

I completed and Airprox Report online.

​​​​​​​What was the outcome?

[rb14]

What was the outcome?
Thanks for asking. I'm waiting to hear. They haven't yet responded. I will be chasing it up.

[Mike Flynn]

Read this which will throw a lot of light on the situation.
The LAC appears to be the villains.
http://www.lendf.co.uk/Concerns%20about%20the%20hazards%20of%20Kenyon%20Airfield%20-%202011.pdf

[Jan Olieslagers]

Thanks, Mike, good journalism research. I cannot help feeling that the author of the mentioned pdfs has other concerns than those described. Sure enough aerodromes must satisfy certain safety rules, but I should expect the CAA to take care of those?? It is like that in Belgium, and those people are scrupulous enough. Then again, given the quantity of aerodromes in UK, including the very numerous farm strips, the UK CAA might lack the human resources to examine every field for every change in operating rules, let alone for periodical checks?

[TheOddOne]

Hi Jan,
The UK CAA are only interested in aerodromes that are licenced by them. There used to be many more licenced aerodromes in the UK when it was a requirement for flying training for an ICAO-compliant licence to be conducted at such. When that regulation was removed about 10 years ago, a lot of smaller aerodromes in the UK chose to hand in their licences. Incidentally, there has never been a requirement for an aerodrome to be licenced for the conduct of training for a sub-ICAO licence, such as for flying microlights. Civil Aviation Publication 793 gives advice on some dimensions of aerodromes to be used for flying training and it is now the responsibility of the instructor to ensure the suitability of an aerodrome, rather than the regulator. Of course, apart for flying training, it is the responsibility of the pilot to ensure the suitability of a site to be used for the alighting or departure of the aircraft they are flying.

TOO

[ETOPS]

Mike Flynn

You do realise the document dates from 2011? It was ignored by the CAA thus leading to various unfortunate statements made by the author about their officers which were then published on the weird website. The airstrip has been in use now for over a decade and is about to open a second runway - no trains have been menaced during this time.

[Mike Flynn]

You do realise the document dates from 2011? It was ignored by the CAA thus leading to various unfortunate statements made by the author about their officers which were then published on the weird website. The airstrip has been in use now for over a decade and is about to open a second runway - no trains have been menaced during this time.

Yes I am aware of the date of that.However it’s about the most coherent synopsis of the situation I can find.Why on earth the LAC chose to set up shop there beats me. There must be plenty of other places they could have chosen. My understanding is they have no hangarage or permanent buildings so is it worth the hassle?

I’m intrigued to know how they have planning permission for change of use?

[Jan Olieslagers]

A rare absence of nimby-ism, perhaps?

no trains have been menaced during this time That may well be true, but it sounds like "waiting for the disaster to happen before taking measures". That said, there is ample room for an emergency landing avoiding the rails, I have taken off from worse places.

[Mike Flynn]

It appears that a more laid back approach is taken by councils such as Wigan who granted permission for the airstrip on the basis of recreational use.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1954x1492/img_2593_0860cbf24fd36152c32ac389933fe4b679fcd862.jpeg

There are restrictions in place which limit the use.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1880x1133/img_2594_1972f380509244ce6c6eea534215be28490ef500.jpegThe most recent application was for hangars which was turned down on appeal last year.
That pretty much leaves a limited use strip with resident aircraft parked outside and the risk of vandalism.

[ETOPS]

​​​it’s about the most coherent synopsis of the situation I can find

Sorry Mike but this doesn’t come anywhere near the “madness” that underlines what is a very very sorry tale.

[Mike Flynn]

​​​it’s about the most coherent synopsis of the situation I can find

Sorry Mike but this doesn’t come anywhere near the “madness” that underlines what is a very very sorry tale.
Madness certainly sums it up and frankly I would not want to fly from such a location let alone get involved in litigation.

Wigan is certainly not on my list of places to go before I die.

I suspect getting planning for anything around the site is a breeze compared to more desirable parts of the UK.

[ETOPS]

I'm referring to the situation at Ashcroft and its frankly worrying website /owner.

Kenyon Hall farm airstrip is no different to hundreds of similar landing grounds throughout the UK - I've flown there in many different types without any worries or problems...

[Fl1ingfrog]

A concern that a planning authority may have is: that the building can easily be adapted for manufacturing or commercial storage of goods and therefore the associated surrounding noise and road traffic. I don't see how an authority can object to buildings appropriate to the operation of an airfield; no more than should they object to a farmer building a barn. A hangar for light aircraft does not need to be obtrusive in height and can be of a colour appropriate to the surroundings

Hedge rows are popular with planners but they are not appropriate for surrounding an aerodrome. They are a nesting place for birds which are a hazard for aeroplanes.

If the airfield has been in use for over ten years without neighbour complaints then there are few objections that can be sustained now. Climb and approach paths can be detailed along with pilot emergency actions, provided to pilots, that will minimise any risks to neighbours.

[Mike Flynn]

That argument may work in a former heavily industrialised area such as Lancashire but will get you nowhere trying to establish or retain a grass strip and a couple of hangars in the south of England. Wealthy Nimby’s know how to mire councils in expensive planning disputes.

The recreational approach to farmland change of use is interesting but hasn’t helped Jeremy Clarkson in his well documented disputes.

Viewing this aviation spat from several thousand miles away I fail to see how it’s worth the angst.

[Flyingmac]

Read this which will throw a lot of light on the situation.
The LAC appears to be the villains.
http://www.lendf.co.uk/Concerns%20about%20the%20hazards%20of%20Kenyon%20Airfield%20-%202011.pdf

Looks like the work of a Monty Python scriptwriter. Smile
And now, for something completely different.?

[Planemike]

Wigan is certainly not on my list of places to go before I die. .

Ha ha...... says someone who has never been here. You do not know what you are missing !!! 😉😉

[Jim59]

Wigan pier should be on your bucket list!

[Mike Flynn]

Wigan pier should be on your bucket list!

I have put in the bottom of the bucket😂😂