Islay Airport Open Day 2013:

[Ben Bhan]

A brief post which might reach those private pilots who were thinking about flying in to Islay for the Airport Open Day which was to have taken place on Saturday 10th August 2013. Because of operational issues at Islay Airport, the 2013 Open Day has been cancelled but the organisers hope that the event can be revived for 2014. Ben Bhan.

[RTN11]

That's a real shame, was really looking forward to this one.

Hopefully it will be back on again next year.

[AGES]

Normally a great day out, what are the operational reasons?:confused:

[PENNINE BOY]

Flying in Scotland does amaze me at times!

Fabulous runways airport terminals and fire cover that spends a great time at weekends closed, usually funded by a large grant from the EU.

Had a great day out in Gigha on sunday, we were going to refuel in Islay only we could not due to the airport opening for a brief period ie: 16.30 to 17.40 We phoned the airport only to be told they would be closing at 1710!

No worries then just a short hop over to Prestwick to have the cactus treatment up the rear with nav charges and handling fees. If we only had a few more people with the attitude of Paul Keegan then I am sure that there would be far more people flying in and enjoying a special part of the world! :ugh:

P.B.

[silverknapper]

Was it not Paul who was responsible for the Oban fence debacle though?

Shame, Islay is a great overnight.

[Maoraigh1]

Far North at Wick seem to have found a way to operate at a HIAL Airport.

[maxred]

Normally a great day out, what are the operational reasons?

Would hazard a guess that we want triple time, six days in lieu, oh and free transport to and from work.

I was going to visit Tiree on Saturday, for lunch, you know spend some hard earned cash, at the local amenities, until I found out that it was, well, shut. For a moment I pondered just going, but then thought, where is the point. A good day out at Plocton ensued, cheaper as well...

[silverknapper]

I suspect Far North's success is down to a few factors. Andy's incredible motivation and service, a good airport manager and good airport staff who know they're not exactly on the beaten track, so go out of their way to accommodate anything outside the ordinary.

Sadly they could teach Inverness a thing or two.

[NorthSouth]

Pennine Boy: No worries then just a short hop over to Prestwick to have the cactus treatment up the rear with nav charges and handling feesI'm guessing you didn't go to Prestwick Flight Centre then? Reasonable prices there and they tell ATC they're handling you so no hassles.

As regards HIAL inflexibility, an indemnity for all HIAL airfields except Barra can be had for a small fee. Can't find it on their website but I'm sure a phone call would locate it.

NS

[PENNINE BOY]

I have indemnity for Oban. That is handy for fuel. But really I am not hoping to pick up fuel in the dark hours! We pay enough in landing fees in Scotland. Without having to have indemnities for every airfield you might visit.

Re Prestwick Flying Schools, on one of the best flying days so far this year that fell on a weekend they where all closed at the time of calling 1730.

Every airfield on the west coast has more staff than LHR for 2 arrivals a day!

Great business plan lets hope it is sustainable if Scotland gets its Independence.
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[maxred]

And PB, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the current position. Beautiful scenery, beautiful airfields, ruined in part by petty bureaucrats, crazy opening hours, crazy local PPR, and no understanding of GA flying.

It is a shame, and it effects all local based pilots also. As regards the HIAL indemnity, why? We are all insured for our aircraft, or should be, so why be asked to pay more?

Inverness, by the way, has to be one of the best. We landed in my friends Commander, two of us, full PPR/Flight plans et al, to be met, as we went to go to the terminal for a coffee, by security, who asked for ID. Photographic ID. I, by chance, had a flying club card, with my photo. Your ok says security. The owner, who is coloured, had none. You can go out, he says, but you cannot get back in, states security. We commence pleading, but no. If he sets one foot off airside, he would not get back. I traipse round to the terminal, to get an extortionate coffe, couple of sandwiches, which I carry back airside to the plane. I am monitored all the way by security, and we sat forelornly in the aircraft eating our sandwich, and drinking our coffee. We then depart, having had one of the most miserable flying visits I can ever remember.

That's HIAL Inverness, for you. Having said that, Kirkwall were the opposite, could not have been more welcoming:ok:

[Maoraigh1]

That surprises me. Based at Inverness and with a PPL airside badge, I can escort up to three people to the GA area - with only me wearing a yellow jacket. Did neither of you have a driving licence?

[maxred]

Eh, no not on us, but even so, we both have the old style no photo, type, but the security guy insisted on photographic ID. It was a surreal moment, because he had watched us disembark from our plane, and watched us walk over to the exit hut. I tried to reason, but, no way. Photo ID.

Note that I subtely noted that my colleague the owner, was not Anglo Saxon.

It was actually pretty embarrassing, but hey, sign of the times perhaps.

One thing for sure, we would never go back.

[dont overfil]

I have experienced the "Gestapo" security at Inverness. It was eventually sorted but left a bad taste. Training desperately needed.

All the other HIAL airports are great.

I am told that the decision about the Islay airshow was initiated by one individual at Islay (not the manager) and backed by the management at Inverness.

D.O.

[Captain Smithy]

Kirkwall is great :cool:

Surprised at the comments on Schnecky, i think its pretty relaxed.

[scottish_ppl]

The requirement is clearly set out in the ga briefing page on the inverness airport web site:

If you intend to leave the airside areas of the airport you will need to identify yourself to our security team on return. To allow ease of access please make sure you bring your pilot's licence and a recognised form of photographic ID with you.



So nothing to do with whether you are anglo-saxon or not!

No mention of it on the AIP entry for Inverness though if you happen not to check the hial website, although I don't know if it gets mentioned when you phone for the mandatory ppr. Does seem a bit draconian that if you are already airside, security cant give you some kind of temporary pass to allow you to re-enter on your return.

It's very easy to fly into any HIAL airport any time you like, without worrying about the opening hours, it only costs something like 20 quid and and a photocopy of your insurance certificate once a year to cover all the airports, which seems pretty fair and reasonable to me...

[Flyingmac]

£35 now. http://ripassetseu.s3.amazonaws.com/www.hial.co.uk/_files/documents/apr_13/hia__1365433685_20130401_OOH_Permit_Applicatio.pdf

[riverrock83]

I guess you have an old CAA licence then.
With Part-FCL your licence isn't valid unless you have photo-id (and your medical) with you as well (and you must carry it all with you in the aircraft on every flight).

[flybymike]

How does carrying a photograph of yourself, demonstrate to security personnel, that you are not a security risk?

I have some lovely photos of myself so clearly I'm OK.

[dont overfil]

I have some lovely photos of myself so clearly I'm OK.

Will a mirror do?:}

D.O.

[gasax]

The one critical fact that the 'security industry' has never been able to answer is how employing some of the lowest intelligence and often criminally inclined people is genuinely going to improve 'security'.

The vast majority of it is to simply be seen to be doing something, the value of that something is generally highly questionable. Having worked in a risk management company I was appalled at the 'security advice' we received from our security colleagues. Anyone who can spell IQ can usually run rings around these people - it is cruel but very much like telling someone to pee in the corner of a barrel.....

But it is an industry that earns a lot of money and councils and bodies of that ilk - HIAL, BAA etc just love the whole 'jobsworth' mentality. If our wonderful 'govermint' really wanted to cut out waste it could all be removed in an instant with the instruction - if the guy next/nearest to you does something you do not like the look of - shout it out and if necessary clobber him/her. Goodbye a whole industry!

[maxred]

But it is an industry that earns a lot of money and councils and bodies of that ilk - HIAL, BAA etc just love the whole 'jobsworth' mentality. If our wonderful 'govermint' really wanted to cut out waste it could all be removed in an instant with the instruction - if the guy next/nearest to you does something you do not like the look of - shout it out and if necessary clobber him/her. Goodbye a whole industry!

Classic...:D

Billions saved me thinks

[Maoraigh1]

With Part-FCL your licence isn't valid unless you have photo-id

Government issued photo-id?

[flybymike]

Lots of people use AOPA Aircrew cards because they look all official and say you are a pilot and everything.

The photo on my aircrew card looks like me only because I told AOPA that it was in fact me.

[riverrock83]

Government issued photo-id?

The rules don't say what sort. I've a security pass to get through the Prestwick security gates with my picture on it. I'm sure that'll do. I've an honorary life time membership card to St Andrews Student's Union. That'll probably do too... but noone knows, and its rarely checked.

[LFT]

To get us back on topic, anyone know the 'operational issues' which caused the cancellation?

[dont overfil]

Read post #14.

[LFT]

I did d.o. but it doesn't really tell me what the 'operational issue' actually is?

[maxred]

I am told that the decision about the Islay airshow was initiated by one individual at Islay (not the manager) and backed by the management at Inverness.

Not sure it will make public domain yet..:confused:

[dont overfil]

Without going into too much detail, lack of willing staff.

D.O.

[maxred]

Would hazard a guess that we want triple time, six days in lieu, oh and free transport to and from work.

My post no.7.

They may have been more, 'willing', had this been on offer. With these events, I assume there is a sense of doing it for the love of aviation, and dont forget that a lot of airshows, open days, are at fields which are owner operated, not operated by a larger corporate entity, excluding the RAF, but they dont count because I assume the staff would just be told to do it:hmm:

Shame really because it was a nice event, and a lot of the local community attended, generating interest in aviation.

[C172Navigator]

If you land using an out of hours permit how do you get out and back in to the airport? Are the security dudes there 24 hours?

[Maoraigh1]

The one critical fact that the 'security industry' has never been able to answer is how employing some of the lowest intelligence and often criminally inclined people is genuinely going to improve 'security'.


If they read this sort of stuff from GA pilots, no wonder they're unwilling to work extra hours for GA. Not my opinion of the people I meet. They didn't create the Security procedures - that came from above. (From the CAA? Some ministry even higher up?)

[cockney steve]

[f they read this sort of stuff from GA pilots, no wonder they're unwilling to work extra hours for GA. Not my opinion of the people I meet. They didn't create the Security procedures - that came from above/QUOTE]

And it's the ones above that are the self-serving gravy-train operators.
The minimum-wage Droids just execute their programming.....no initiative, no interpretation, no exceptions, no intelligence required or allowed.
This massive quasi-industry feeds a goodly number of fat-cats and keeps a large number of otherwise-unemployable people off the dole-queue.
therefore, the Gummint wins both ways...reduces unemployment, can be seen to "do" something.

[QUOTE]If they read this sort of stuff from GA pilots
stretching it a bit there, aren't you? :}
making the assumption that their reading-skills are up to snuff. then a leap of faith that they'd have a clue as to where GA Pilots are likely to post ;)

*stands by to be run over by the outrage-bus full of "security" management, P.O'd because someone has spoken out against their cosy cartel.*

[NewTimer]

C172N

You climb over the gate, IIRC.

[maxred]

The minimum-wage Droids just execute their programming.....no initiative, no interpretation, no exceptions, no intelligence required or allowed

Christ CS, and I thought I sat on the RHS of life:cool:

You are of course entirely correct, and the subtlety of it knows no bounds. The rise of the Lo Co, with its hoards, falls right into the lap of this cartel, security at airports like visiting your relatives in HM Prison. Actually HM Prison staff are infinately more pleasant than the Airport goons.

Keep the mass afraid, by the bi monthly terror scare, keep up the 'less than 100mls', and strangely, you can buy what you want airside, in any amount.
Keep stripping off, and it all goes around and around. Great work if you can get it.

The one that actually drives me mad are these silly women, giggling away, and voluntarily taking off their bloody shoes:*

Anyway, we aint going to change it, but we can stand for our rights and freedom at GA airfields....