Instructor's Course?

[BigglesWannabee]

Hi all,

I hope this is in the correct forum. Without wishing to step on anyone's toes (or wings), I would like to become a flight instructor in the not too distant future. I have two months off work in March and April next year in order to do this, but I would first like to get your thoughts and opinions on a number of points.

1) Where is the best place to complete the course i.e. which has the best reputation?

2) What are the prospects of employment once the course has been completed? Are there any schools which take on its students afterwards?

3) I understand it is difficult to find a place to work where one can become unrestricted after the first 100 hours quickly. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

4) I see flight instruction as a long-term investment and as a potential career - can this qualification be taken around the world?

Some quick information on me - I'm 30 years old, I have a commercial licence with roughly 300 hours and currently fly as part of a Flying Group every weekend.

I look forward to hearing your advice and thank you all in advance.

BigglesWannabee

[Ballywalter Flyer]

Get in touch with Leicester Aero Club. They do everything from nppl to cpl. In a relaxed club atmosphere

[Whopity]

Many schools will have their favourite FIC provider and on that basis schools who do FIC will favour their own product. Work for a new FI is difficult to find so a little pre-course investigation is worthwhile.

The problem with getting the Restriction removed is down to the number of solo flights available. Schools who do lots of trial lessons may not have many solo flights, so it is all dependent upon the number of PPL students who are at the solo stage and the number of Restricted FIs who need a tick in the box.

An EASA FI qualification is good throughout Europe but of little use outside Europe except at EASA approved schools where you may need dual qualifications.

[BigglesWannabee]

Thanks guys for the heads up. Ballywalter Flyer - do you speak from experience about Leicester Aero Club? It seems those first 100 hours to become unrestricted are the most difficult to achieve.

Whopity - are you suggesting avoid schools which have a high trial flight turnover? Is my best chance of finding employment with a large flight school which processes integrated students or perhaps with a smaller outfit which has less students but could be more accommodating?

[Cows getting bigger]

An instructor at our school would do 100hrs in a little under two months this time of year, three months in the winter.

[RTN11]

The requirement to remove the restriction is not just the 100 hours, but also to send a students on a solo flight 25 times.

The 100 hours could come in around 3-4 months, or as little as 1-2 if really busy, it's the solo sign offs that are the problem. If you're doing a large number of trial lessons or early students, you won't get any, you need to get your hands on the right students on the right day.

In reality if you're at a busy school, the other instructors usually share their students with you if they know that you need the sign off.

[Cobalt]

It took me 450 hours to get the 25 solo sign-offs. Only about five of these were supervising other instructor's students, the remainder were mine.

The first 10 took over half a year [the horrid winter and spring did not help], the last 15 three weeks as all of the sudden all my students were at the right stage and flying frequently.

The reason nobody likes to employ restricted instructors is that in order to supervise you, normally another instructor needs to be present [and if done properly, also spend some time with your student notes, sit in on a couple of briefings]. The presence bit can be difficult to arrange at small schools. Even with three retained instructors at my school, I found myself without cover on occasion and had to cancel / rearrange lessons. Also, since you cannot send anyone on their first solo off your own bat, you need to be careful to have someone on standby when your students are about ready.

Instructing is great - I went into it after around 700hrs private flying and am enjoying every minute. I have no real interest in airline flying. Trial lessons can become a bit of a drag at times, especially the ones with little prospect of getting a student, but 80% of my students did their trial lesson with me, and some others as well.

Two months to get the instructor rating sounds about right, allowing for weather issues etc.

[GoingTech]

Hello,

Seems like most things are covered, I'll add my 2 (insert local currency here).

1) Go to a few places, talk to the FICs, see where you feel comfortable. I'd recommend Wycombe Air Centre (now Booker Aviation) with Simon and Caroline, great instructors that I can't recommend highly enough.

2) No school will guarantee a place as an instructor afterwards, they want to see how you progress first.

3) This will take ages (the sign-off part), unless you're full time at an academy (I imagine). I wasn't and it took 2 years.

4) It can be taken around the world. However, you will need to convert to which ever authority operates if it's not EASA.

[Duchess_Driver]

Don't be in a rush to get the restriction lifted. It's there for a reason. I like to see a good spread of teaching all exercises before I sign, regardless of sign offs or hours. Can you honestly say you're comfortable working unsupervised after only 100hrs flying pre-circuit exercises? Remember, these are minimum requirements which are all too often expectations that are unrealistic in the world we operate in.

[BigglesWannabee]

Some very useful responses. It sounds like you need to get into a school or club where someone is willing to take you under their wing so to speak and nurture your instructor progression over a long period of time.

Apart from Leicester Aero Club, can anyone recommend any other schools to take the course? I thought instructor hours were fairly difficult to get hold of at the moment but 100+ hours a month seems to be very good to me.

Again, thank you for all your advice.

[dobbin1]

I did my FI rating (and CPL) with Dorothy Pooley at Shoreham. She is excellent.

Took me almost a year to get my restriction lifted, at around 200 hours. The supervision I received while restricted was "basic" to say the least, but there was always someone available to answer any questions I might have, even if they were not always at the airfield.

[Level Attitude]

I like to see a good spread of teaching all exercises before I sign, regardless of sign offs or hours.

DD
There is nothing for you to sign/refuse to sign

Under EASA once an FI(R) has 100 hours of Instruction and has
the (signed off) 25 supervised solo flights they can complete, and
submit, the application form to remove the supervisory restriction
themselves -no other input required.

[foxmoth]

Instructing is great - I went into it after around 700hrs private flying and am enjoying every minute. I have no real interest in airline flying

Cobalt, I would be interested to know how old you are? I had much the same feeling, kept going with instructing and Air Taxi on Aztec and Chieftain, absolutely loved that, but finally got to the stage where I asked myself "do I still want to be flying for no money when I am 40+?", that was at about 30 years old. NO regrets for not having gone to the airlines earlier, but just saying keep an open mind. I am now a fairly senior Captain on Airbus, but still keep my instructors ticket going and thoroughly enjoy what I do - also it appears, one of a reducing number of professional pilots that is happy to take out the automatics and fly a proper visual approach!:ok:

[Cobalt]

You may - I am in my forties. But I am strictly flying for my personal travel and enjoyment, and never had any plans to fly airliners. I like flying and explaining things, so being an instructor is great.

I formed the plan to be an instructor for a time quite a while ago, so when I was doing my IR I did ATPL theory, and did the CPL [only 15 hours] later just in time before the theory expired.

Maybe a more varied corporate job might tempt me, or some specialist and strange aerial work, but I am more likely to go back into my old profession, and then return to instructing when I retire, assuming GA still exists at that point. I certainly cannot afford to instruct at the present pay levels.

I have enough IFR hours to get the no-applied-instrument restriction removed, which pays a bit more, but there is no real call for instrument instruction in commutable distance from home, so that is a no-go.

[Pull what]

1) Where is the best place to complete the course i.e. which has the best reputation?

It's not where its who. Personally I would recommend a FI course instructor who has airline experience, preferably jet command & training experience. Generally the best courses come from those with the widest experience. Obviously airline flying,testing and training is in a completely different league to that of basic PPL training which seems to have gone backwards in comparison with the airline industry in regards to standards in the last 30 years I know of.

You can also be reasonably sure that anyone who works for an airline and also instructs is instructing because they have a genuine interest.

[nick14]

I would always recommend Central Flight Training at Tatenhill, they are a specialist school for FI stuff as well as the IR and CPL. Craig has bags of experience flying all sorts and the two instructors are also examiners and very experienced giving a real quality product.

[Whopity]

Can you honestly say you're comfortable working unsupervised after only 100hrs flying pre-circuit exercises?But, that is all EASA requires you to have to be an Examiner to conduct Skill Tests for the LAPL!

[BigglesWannabee]

I have now heard good thing about On Track Aviation at Wellesbourne - does anyone have any experience of them? Many thanks

[taybird]

I've had mixed experience with OnTrack, although others seem to have got okay.
Leicestershire Aero Club has a good reputation, plus several graduates have ended up with work from the school. I imagine this will depend on how well you do and availability of work. The facilities are good which helps.
Central Flight Training at Tatenhill also has a good reputation. From personal experience I would happily recommend both Leicester and Tatenhill.

[S-Works]

I have used Ontrack for years both as an Instructor and Examiner and they have always been exceptional.

I have not used Leicester for anything in my training life, however it is my home club as it is Taybirds and Dave Biddles who runs the courses is a great guy who is enthusiastic and and very experienced. Just knowing him personally I know you would get a good course with him.

[Duchess_Driver]

Quote:

I like to see a good spread of teaching all exercises before I sign, regardless of sign offs or hours.
DD
There is nothing for you to sign/refuse to sign

Under EASA once an FI(R) has 100 hours of Instruction and has
the (signed off) 25 supervised solo flights they can complete, and
submit, the application form to remove the supervisory restriction
themselves -no other input required.



Was wondering why I hadn't seen a Form 2 on my desk for a wee while!


Quote:

Can you honestly say you're comfortable working unsupervised after only 100hrs flying pre-circuit exercises?

But, that is all EASA requires you to have to be an Examiner to conduct Skill Tests for the LAPL!


And that's what scare the sh1t out of me. I do hope that someone wakes up and smells the coffee soon or this is going to turn out to be one big clusterf**k.

My advice still stands. Don't be in a rush - do a proper job and learn your trade from the bottom up!

[Cows getting bigger]

Popping back into the thread, I would counter previous advice about finding someone who has airline experience. In my experience as an employer of FIs the very best FICs are those who are professional instructors (Carol at Andrewsfield and Eva at Denham spring to mind) or those who have entered instructing from the military. No criticism aimed at the airline guys, just my personal experience.

One final point, I will almost always employ people my FICs have trained ahead of those who come from other schools.

[Ex Oggie]

I have to agree with Cows, go somewhere that has staff that specialise in instructor training full time. There are a few around the country.

Check out the schools websites for information AND accuracy as that may well reflect the standard of training you will get.

Then go and visit them and explain what you want, and talk directly to the instructors. I would also insist on being able to ask current students if you could have a word with them, and get the lowdown on how they feel about the school. The horses mouth is often the best reference, or indeed the best warning.

XO

[RTN11]

Each sign off needs to be counter signed by the supervising instructor, so although there isn't the section at the bottom stating that in your opinion they are ready to have the restriction removed, there is still a way you can hold up the removal of the restriction if you don't feel they are ready, even if they have technically signed off 25 solo flights.

[Pull what]

do a proper job and learn your trade from the bottom up!

Apprenticeships used to be 3-4 years-multiply an an instructors average year total by 3 and youre at the point were you are beginning to be an FI. Little wonder standards are low.

[flystrathclyde]

Are there any GOOD FI instructors looking for work?

Or is the demand for courses keeping them all busy?

[high wing harry]

My advice... Most people will recommend where they did their course. Not many have done the initial course twice!!

You seem to have some time before you want to start. Go and visit the schools and see who you get a good reaction from. Do they show you round, are they friendly, where are their recent students now? Ask lots of questions and remember you will more than likely be there for 6-8 weeks so you should like the place!!

I personally recommend Caroline at Wycombe air park. I also hear Eva at denham is great.

Good luck - its a great course!

[Duchess_Driver]

HWH....

You would, wouldn't you!?!

Seconded, Caroline at Wycombe and Eva at Denham would get my vote for places to go/people to see.

DD!