PPL test failed - human factors kick in

[dalgetty]

My friend never did like stalls, spirals or other aerobatic manoeuvres, but this is ridiculous.

After successfully doing the manoeuvres part of his practical test he entered a CTR correctly, but felt seriously nauseous on short final. Just before the round-off he threw up and the instructor took control.

After he had paid the landing tax, my friend was told by the instructor that the test was over.

Just to add insult to injury, this exam took place exactly two years since he passed the theory, so he will have to resit all the theory exams as well as the practical test.

I can't help thinking that they could have done a few circuits and carried on the exam. Does anybody know what the guidelines are?

As a warning to future PPL candidates who get airsick, for goodness' sake talk about it with your instructor before the practical test, and take all permitted measures. Not airsickness pills, but at least breathing techniques and cockpit ventilation.

[Fly-by-Wife]

I think that he may have been failed not because he was ill, but because he showed poor decision making by not handing over control or requesting assistance until control was forcibly taken by the examiner at a critical point in the landing.

Just my 2p

FBW

[Echo Romeo]

Umm, poor sod, what an unfortunate turn of events :ouch:

[obgraham]

Over here, "Examiner taking control of aircraft" is an automatic fail.

Is it different on your side?

[Torque Tonight]

It is unfortunate but, if an examiner HAS to take control during a test then is anyone surprised that the test is failed? What would have happened if the examiner was not there? The test is assessing the canditate's ability to operate solo safely and to assure the safety of his passengers.

Carrying on with further circuits is a bad idea as the candidate is clearly not fit to fly (and probably stinks of vomit). Maybe he would have been prudent to take the practical a little sooner so that one single 'hiccup' would not cause the theory to expire.

[Nearly There]

If he'd of informed the examiner earlier and handed over control then the outcome may well have been different, I barfed an hour into my CPL/ME, just after the navex and a few circuits somewhere, we were climbing to go complete stalls, eng failure, rapid descent etc when I felt the colour drain and cold sweats.
I said 'you have control Im not feeling to good' 5mins and half a bag later we were doing the bits mentioned earlier and 50mins later informed of a pass.

[dalgetty]

Excellent point: the way in which control was passed to the instructor is clearly the most important aspect. He tells me that he didn't do it formally as in "Your control, please do a go-around", it was less than ideal copy book air speak.

However, he also tells me that they have allowed him to sit the test again tomorrow, without the theory test resits - which is a huge relief.

[Thoughtful_Flyer]

My friend never did like stalls, spirals or other aerobatic manoeuvres, but this is ridiculous.

Well, it is a good thing he is not learning to fly gliders then!

After successfully doing the manoeuvres part of his practical test he entered a CTR correctly, but felt seriously nauseous on short final. Just before the round-off he threw up and the instructor took control.

More seriously though, unless he can resolve this problem should he even be flying solo, let alone potentially carrying passengers?

The point of these exercises is so that you can deal with such situations if they arrise unexpectedly, get back to proper control of the aircraft all the way through to a safe landing.

[pudoc]

Very unfortunate, but I agree with the examiner.

I bet the examiner feels disappointed that he had to fail him, but he did what he had to do.

[Pilot.Lyons]

I agree with thoughtful flyers comments.

If he was on his own what would have happened? Doesn't bare thinking about

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Sometimes it just happens, i have never been seasick carsick or airsick until i did an intensive hour "under the hood" which involved some recoveries from unusual angles in instrument conditions.

I was being vectored to land and felt really ill, had all the vents open (which takes a bit fitting into the scan.. ASI, vent, HI, vent ALT, bag) told the instructor, he took over, i didn't blow chunks but i did sit on the wing for a bit and have some negotiations with stomach. :yuk:

The day before doing the same amount of hours i'd actually landed the airplane (with some help on the round out ) totally under the hood, no issues.

If it happens all the time the guy needs to do something about it medically or consider giving it up, lets face it if you going to puke on every 2nd flight why bother.
If its a one off its just really bad luck... i lost about 5kg in sweat on my Practical! poor bastard

[Ka6crpe]

Flyingkiwi 73, On reading this I immediately suspected that your instructor was a certain "A" cat who used to be CFI for the Otago Aero Club, but now manages a commercial flight school, as that is exactly what he likes to do. I.E. throw the aircraft around while you cannot see a horizon until you reach your own limit of nuasea.

However I see you fly mainly Omaka and Paraparam, so unlikely to be the same one. However it is good to find your limits while training and not while on a flight test.

For the OP, if anyone is prone to airsickness during normal flying then they probably shouldn't be trying for a PPL. :rolleyes:

[custardpsc]

Lets hope his second one went ok. Undoubtedly failed for the examiner having to take control, and for not showng pilot in command judgement to manage the situation better. He could have asked the examiner to take control or simply to ask to leave the circuit for a few minutes of straight and level or whatever he needed, but very hard to make that call in a test and very easy to struggle on and hope for the best. Doubly worse with the pressure of an expiring theory test. The uk doesnt brief on this before the test as far as i know, and undoubtedly should do as it would have helped. In the usa, in the preflight brief it is clearly explained that you can simply ask for a discontinuance if you feel ill, and any time the examiner is forced to take control it is indeed game over.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Flyingkiwi 73, On reading this I immediately suspected that your instructor was a certain "A" cat who used to be CFI for the Otago Aero Club, but now manages a commercial flight school, as that is exactly what he likes to do. I.E. throw the aircraft around while you cannot see a horizon until you reach your own limit of nuasea'

Nope different guy, my old CFI now flies a lovely Stearman on commercial flights at Omaka, lucky bugger.

I remember they made me close my eyes, did a wing drop stall (in a tommie these can be a little interesting) left it, and said "....now recover". i had no idea if i was upside down or what!

Kept my lunch tho!!!

[piperarcher]

More seriously though, unless he can resolve this problem should he even be flying solo, let alone potentially carrying passengers?

I'd say if this is the first time he has been ill, and it is comes from prolonged stalls, steep turns, recovery from unusual attitiudes etc... (the latter may not be applicable here anyhow), then I think he is OK. I have felt sick (but never been sick) after prolonged exercises, though for me it has been unusual attitude recovery with my head down, but that was for my IMCr and not my PPL. OK one could argue that you dont normally get into these situations, not one after the other for 15 minutes at a time, but if you do, you need to recover but I think the combination of these exercises over a long time is the issue here, and he will be perfectly safe. Not everyone has the stomach for aeros, and many other pilots are safely and competently with or without passengers.

[Maoraigh1]

not one after the other for 15 minutes at a time

Continuous turbulence, more wing drop movement than in stalls, for more than 30 minutes? Not uncommon.

[stickandrudderman]

:yuk::yuk:You puke you lose.

[Storkeye]

When I started my PPL I suffered really badly from airsickness, then I discovered 3 excellent tips...

1. Don't fly hungry. So I would be sure to eat a mars bar before every flight.

2. Keep the ball in the middle. Being out of balance triggered my airsickness really quickly.

3. Fly regularly. Flying regularly gets the body used to the motion and the brain learns what fluid motions in the inner ear are acceptable.

Hope that helps your friend and anyone else who suffers from this.

[Whopity]

and it is comes from prolonged stalls, steep turns, recovery from unusual attitudes etc... Interesting, on a PPL Skill Test, the candidate flies the aeroplane and demonstrates the stalls and steep turns, this does not usually induce air sickness. The unusual attitude will be set up by the Examiner, so how many were there? The opportunity for aggressive flying that might induce the non flying pilot to be sick should have been quite short. "Prolonged stalls" implies that the candidate had to repeat items, so perhaps the reason for failure goes much further than originally stated.

[AberdeenAngus]

Take Ginger - good sickness remedy without side effects.

[Ranger One]

Resurrecting a slightly elderly thread I came across, with an interesting and instructive anecdote.

A… pilot of my acquaintance (no names, no pack drill) was approx. 75% of the way through his PPL Skills Test when the examiner tossed his cookies fairly spectacularly. The poor chap said he thought he was ok but still looked pretty greyish.

PICUS pondered the situation briefly, then said the following: "I'm terminating this test and returning to base immediately. I've never been airsick in my life, but there's always a first time, and the smell, or you doing it again, might set me off. I'd sooner be down there booking a new test, than up here with BOTH of us tossing our cookies".

On the basis of this exemplary decision-making, he was awarded an immediate pass!

[Jonzarno]

Well done him, and well done the examiner! :D

[Lawyerboy]

I can empathise with those who blow the occasional chunk. I've suffered from airsickness for years, and on one memorable occasion (third solo, circuits) famously thought I could hold on for one more circuit before realising to my horror, after the touch and go, that no, I really couldn't.

Blisteringly hot day, lots of thermals, I'd been bouncing around quite unpleasantly. 800ft out of 22L at Stapleford, about to turn left, out it came, and all I managed to achieve by clasping my right hand in front of my mouth was an even spread of foul extrusion all over the instruments, the windshield, and me.

Immediately afterwards, of course, I felt much better and proceeded happily around the rest of the circuit to land. My instructor was less happy. Handing me a bucket and a cloth he simply said 'I'm not cleaning that.'

I don't suffer anywhere near as badly anymore, and as storkeye said I make sure I eat before each flight, but every now and again - hot days, steep turns, whatever - there's the odd twinge. Don't think it ever really goes away.

[mary meagher]

I used to get seasick after an hour of slatting about in nil wind...in a sailboat.

On my first flight in a glider, didn't go off colour until an hour after the flight....so after that took quells before flying for my next ten flights...
once I was doing all the handling and decision making, no more problems neither immediate or delayed...until I was invited to fly a competition task in the back seat of a Marianne with a well known world champion....

and didn't have quells on hand. After more than an hour, over Bicester, chucked my cookies neatly into a BA barf bag (note the quality of the container!) Brian enquired, having noticed that I was unnaturally quiet, if I was feeling alright. I am now, I replied. What should I do with the bag?
O, said Brian, just drop it out the DV panel...so I did.

As we climbed tightly I began once again to take an interest in the surroundings, and commented to Brian that we were sharing the thermal with a big white bird. Bird hell, said Brian, that's your sick bag!

It had been in collision with the leading edge of the wing, unloading the contents, and so was able to climb even better than the glider...

Of course I got to wash the Marianne at the end of the day; barf, bugs, soot from stubble fires, flakes of ash from the Didcot power station chimney, etc etc. Those were the days....