Hour Building in Spain

[pilot in command]

Hi everyone,

Ill be off to Malaga in Aug to do 25 hours of hour building with One Air, Im just wondering if anyone here has had experience of this school or have heard any reviews? I have had a look on Pprune already but not many results.

Thanks

[Pace]

I hope you enjoy your hour building! Have you any trips worked out maybe other areas of Spain!
What aircraft are you using and what are they charging you for a dry rate?
Have you paid up front etc etc etc ?
Where near Malaga are they based obviously not Malaga

Pace

[pilot in command]

Yeah I think it will be amazing. Taking into account hotels flights etc the hourly rate is around £155 for 10 hours on the DA20 and 15 on the DA40. I am based out of Malaga International and all taxes landing fees are included. Planning a few trips at the moment and hoping to go to Ibiza, Mallorca, Morocco and Faro- landing fees are much cheaper in Spain! :-)

[172driver]

Well, you better verify that. The pics on their website are taken at LEAX and the landing fees at Spanish airports have been hiked to absurd levels in the past couple of years. Also LEMG is IFR-only most days of the week during the summer months. Check the NOTAMs. Granted, you don't say if you are IR-rated, but if VFR only, LEMG - alas! - isn't a viable option anymore. It used to be great, but these days are long gone :(

[pilot in command]

It is Malaga International- I asked for all the details in writing to confirm and the price includes all taxes and landing fees. They also have an airfield further out of Malaga but they dont fly from there much.

[172driver]

In this case - well done (to get it in writing) and enjoy!

[A and C]

I think you need to read the small print, Malaga is IFR only most days unless you are a local operator.

Having been based at AGP last year I can tell you that the place has plenty of scope for VFR as long as they don't catch the British airport idea and that tries to turn a reagonal airport into an intergalactic space port.

[pilot in command]

Well it certainly is Malaga International under VFR. I am flying at 7.30 each morning when it will be quiter and not so hot. We will be done a few hours of general nav the first day then after that it will be 2-3 long sectors each day. Second day is Malaga-Mallorca-Ibiza-Malaga. Hopeing to get down to Morocco as well!

[500 above]

Well, even Aerodynamics Malaga (FTO) only fly IFR out of AGP. All single engine VFR and hours building Is from LEAX, which is quite a drive away, necessitating a rental car.

Only the twins for IFR training are based at AGP. I'd check again with your school.

It's Notam'ed VFR ops not allowed Friday, Saturday and Sunday with another Notam stating aircraft with speeds below 200 KTS expect delays.

[Nearly There]

They also have an airfield further out of Malaga but they dont fly from there much.

Spanish speaking only there though

[A and C]

While I won't dispute anything you say a year based in Spain has demonstrated to me that Spanish ATC is very good at serving the needs of the Spanish operators.

[500 above]

Well, they've got to be good at something, A & C. They're certainly not very good at giving directs are they!

I went earlier this year to renew my JAA MEP/IR.The FTO said that absolutely all SEP VFR was done at LEAX, otherwise I'd have renewed my SEP at the same time. However, being based and operating from a Mediterranean country myself, I know full well there are rules, and there are rules...

Yes, LEAX is a Spanish comms only airfield. Some nice proper aircraft live there though, like a Jungmann, Stampe etc.

If indeed it is really AGP you are flying from, be prepared for some serious delay vectors or holding and some pretty 'expeditious' approaches. All good fun!

To the OP:

AIRCRAFT | Hour Building Spain (http://www.hourbuildingspain.com/aircraft/)

The photos (with the exception of the third in series) are all taken at LEAX. Make sure you are really flying from AGP. The sim building is near, not on the airport. Looks like the aircraft are hangared at LEAX to me.

[pilot in command]

Hi,

It is 100% Malaga International I will be operating from: Here is an extract from one of the emails:

"To book it you only have to send your Licence, ID scanned, make a payment upfront of 10% of total and specify scheduled weeks you want to get booked.
These includes provincial taxes and you will be able to operate from Málaga International Airport with a safety pilot (also included) in every single hour with no extra cost."

And another...

"The main attractive of flying here is flying in Málaga International"

Hours are logged on the Hobbs meter, so flying as early as possible in the morning is a must!

[Chilli Monster]

I'm just having difficulty reconciling the use of the words "attractive" and "Malaga" in the same sentence, especially from a flying point of view.

[Maoraigh1]

with a safety pilot (also included) in every single hour with no extra cost."


And you log P1? For hours building?

[pilot in command]

Yes, all hours are logged as P1.

Lots of busy airspace and airfields around so will be really useful before starting the CPL.

[172driver]

A&C

I've been part-based in Malaga (LEMG and LEAX) on and off for 15 years.....

[pilot in command]

I was speaking to the school and they confirmed Malaga did not accept VFR but there are apparently "ways of managing this" I assume depart IFE then revert to VFR outside on the CTA.

[172driver]

This is not entirely correct either. The current NOTAM states no VFR Fri/Sat/Sun, which actually is an improvement over the past years (it was more restrictive then). They also have their 200knts thingy going, see 500above's post. What this means in practice is that depending on the controller's mood you'll be either holding forever - or not. Same on departure. There are ways to mitigate all that, essentially avoiding the 'waves' of CAT arrivals. LEMG can get insanely busy and then totally deserted in the space of a couple of hours.

Now, all this doesn't necessarily mean much, as you won't be flying the pattern at LEMG forever if you hour-build. What I would strongly suggest you do is to find out about the landing fees. Instructional flights have reduced landing fees, so this may be a non-issue, but in the past year or so, all AEANA airports have massively hiked their landing fees and introduced mandatory handling at most airports.

[rmcb]

Yes, all hours are logged as P1.

Careful with this one - I had 12 hours hour building logging as P1 from LEAX with 'safety pilot' - young erk with fewer hours than me. The aircraft is signed out to the operator, but P1 assigned to you. The logbook doesn't match.

UK CAA did not like it one jot; I had to fly these hours extra before CPL application approved.

Not amused.

This would have been 35 hours had I not insisted these jokers teach me joining and circuit Spanish.

I would have been doubly unamused at that point.

As I understand it, there is no concept of safety pilot in the UK.

[172driver]

Learning the few phrases required to operate at LEAX really is no big deal and I'd strongly suggest you do. Write down a crib sheet and have it on your kneeboard. These days LEAX tends to be dead quiet anyway, the financial crisis having taken its toll. In any case, it's a good idea to understand Spanish radio phrases, as Spanish pilots will always do the radio in Spanish. Understanding them definitely helps with situational awareness. At LEAX, you're in English speaking territory within about two minutes after t/o, i.e. when you switch to LEMG App.

@rmcB: it's a problem I never have, but AFAIK the PIC position can change during flight (it certainly can in FAA-land). So, if your instructor/safety/language proficient pilot takes off and then hands the a/c to you, my understanding is that you can then log the flight time as P1 until you hand the controls back, in this case for landing. Of course, the other pilot can then only log P1 for the few minutes of t/o and landing, and you could not log the landing.

PS: the above of course assumes that the POH doesn't specify a certain seat for the P1

[rmcb]

The UK CAA were quite unequivocal about this issue; I was hour building for the purposes of granting the privilege of CPL(A). My putting time in the P1 slot and the safety pilot's name in the operator column invalidated my claim to P1 status. No argument. The FBO said was legal and correct in Spain; UK CAA said inappropriate and inadmissable in the UK.

You could put down that you were the operator but you would be found out in a subsequent inquiry - check the receipts that you have kept (?). You would be defrauding the system. The chances are that Juan Doe has put his name down as P1 as well.

You have no comeback with the FBO. I had to fly these hours and it cost me a further £1900 when I could least afford it.

So, if your instructor/safety/language proficient pilot takes off

You are not the 'sole manipulator of controls' in the flight, therefore you are not P1 for the purposes you may be flying. I implore the OP to contact the UK CAA to find out what is the correct procedure in these circumstances.

[500 above]

"To book it you only have to send your Licence, ID scanned, make a payment upfront of 10% of total and specify scheduled weeks you want to get booked.
These includes provincial taxes and you will be able to operate from Málaga International Airport with a safety pilot (also included) in every single hour with no extra cost."

My thaught's are IF you will indeed have the aircraft based at AGP for the duration, then why do you need a safety pilot at all? Malaga is an English speaking airport. Plan your flights to larger airports with English ATC only.

Secondly, I will bet anything that the aircraft you are renting will spend the evenings hangared at LEAX, not LEMG. Finally, make sure they are not also charging the 'safety pilot' for the flying also - it has been known, and both pilots have been (illegally) logging P1. Think about it - what's the safety pilot getting out of this? Is he doing it outof the kindness of his or her heart? Didn't think so.

You have been warned - good luck.

[RomeoDelta155]

Has anyone done hour building at GRUPO ONE AIR who are based in Malaga. Their website is Hour Building Spain | Hour Building Spain (http://www.hourbuildingspain.com)

I would be interested to hear of experiences of this organisation.

Thanks

RomeoDelta155

[Maoraigh1]

The OP said:

Ill be off to Malaga in Aug to do 25 hours of hour building with One Air,

In the case of just flying around, it's obviously OK - probably acceptable as your hours for PPL renewal.
The question is whether the CAA/EASA will accept them for CPL or ATPL time.

[Ahmoustapha]

Hi Mate

Can you let me know how did your experience with one air went?

Regards