SID vertical profile

[aviationbus]

Hi,
A few days ago I had a discussion with some other pilots about the vertical profiles of IFR procedures in the UK that made me doubtful.

For example, when "clearead to destination via KENET3P, squawk..." in EGKK with no initial level given, a pilot was saying that you are initially cleared to climb to altitude 3000' only complying with the 2500' at or above constraint and than you have to wait for further climb instructions.
As I see it, you are cleared to fly the SID complying with the at or above 2500' at distance 26nm, level 3000' at distance 36nm (which is the first hard constraint) and level 4000' at distance 43nm. My concern is obviously about level bust issues and traffic separation. I know that during normal operations, London Control will give a "climb now" shortly after takeoff but what in case of radio failure (do you continue climb to 4000')?

EG_AD_2_EGKK_6-5_en_2012-11-15.pdf (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-640540D73B85C3ECD2E3BF5541686E87/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGKK_6-5_en_2012-11-15.pdf)

Another discussion was about the "Vertical descent planning" table on STAR plates, to me it's clearly stated that those are INFO only and that actual descent clearances will be given by ATC but somebody was saying that those flight levels are mandatory (and to comply with). Am I wrong?

Thanks for your help.

[Not Long Now]

Yes, should it all go quiet, you follow the plates step climb and end up at 4000'. Then, presumably at the end of the SID (KENET here) you climb to FPL, but to be honest, if it really has gone all quiet, ATC would just be trying to steer well clear of you. Radio fail procedures are one of the biggest mine fields into which to delve. Personally, I don't care what it says in our AIP. Who knows if you've read it? Steer well clear and expect anything is my preferred procedure. Quite probably a typhoon waving at the window may not be too far away.

[Not Long Now]

And as for the STAR, it's an EXPECT, but actual descent only on clearance by ATC. Sure it says that on the plate somewhere?

[aviationbus]

Yes indeed it is written in the descent planning table, that's why I was 99% sure that it was just some kind of guidance on what to expect from the ATC, and not mandatory constraints.

Thank you very much for your replies.

[Intruder]

You should always expect some kind of altitude clearance for departure. If you are given a SID, and no other discrete altitude, then use the altitude limit on the SID. If there is none, ask.

[aviationbus]

Yes, the doubt was about the step climb on the SID linked on the post :ok:

[Intruder]

To me, it would be a nebulous clearance that requires further clarification. You should get an "expect further climb" clarification, since your climb clearance is to below a higher hard restriction. The EFC might be at a position, a time, or a controller.