FLYSCOOT AIR

[ANSALONI]

Just saw an advert for non rated captains for FlyScoot. Any ideas of this airline would be welcome....who is running it??English or Australians??? salaries and general future. Thanks guys and gals.

[Iver]

PFT is alive and well - even for 777 operators...

According to website as of June 2013:

Captain

Job Description Other than fun and excitement, the job encompasses:

Ensure the safety of passengers, other crew members and the aircraft
Serve the company in any part of the world and on any of the routes served by the company, including the operation of special or chartered flights, passenger or freighter aircraft;
Undertake ground handling, in accordance with the ground handling course conducted for pilots, at stations where the aircraft has diverted to and/or where the company has not engaged a contractor to provide ground handling services for the type of aircraft you’re serving on; and perform such other duties in the air and on the ground as the company may reasonably require of a Captain.
Required Skills

Min. 2000 total flight hours in command on commercial jet aircraft.
Preference will be given to applicants with Glass Cockpit/Flight Management Systems experience.
Pilots without a B777 rating will undergo a conversion and be expected to fund 50% of the costs.
First Officer

Job Description Other than fun and excitement, the job encompasses:

Ensure the safety of passengers, other crew members and the aircraft
Serve the company in any part of the world and on any of the routes served by the company, including the operation of special or chartered flights, passenger or freighter aircraft;
Undertake ground handling, in accordance with the ground handling course conducted for pilots, at stations where the aircraft has diverted to and/or where the company has not engaged a contractor to provide ground handling services for the type of aircraft you’re serving on; and perform such other duties in the air and on the ground as the company may reasonably require of a First Officer.
Required Skills

Min. 1500 total flight hours on commercial jet aircraft.
Preference will be given to applicants with Glass Cockpit/Flight Management Systems experience.
Pilots without a B777 rating will undergo a conversion and be expected to fund 50% of the costs.

I understand most airlines require a training bond with prorated amounts reduced from salaries, but this implies pilots might have to fund part of the training up-front... Right?

Wonder if they will charge pilots for differences training once the 787s start to arrive in a few years? :eek::} This is certainly one way to ensure you weed-out the non-777 rated prospects who might be interested - many of whom could be quite experienced (on 737s/A320s) and good potential employees.

[jack s]

who is running it??English or Australians??? salaries and general future. Thanks guys and gals... the airlines is based in Singapore...and is run by Singaporeans why would they need expats to run the airline ? :ugh: they only expat line pilots not management

[Iver]

I think the CEO is a Kiwi or Aussie.

[JGSE]

All of them are Singaporeans, starting with the CEO who is New Zealander??? :ugh:

[slowstream]

Great to see!!! I've submitted my app.

Thank you for posting the info!

Would be very happy to fly for them, regardless and would extremely happy to get back to work after not working for 5 months.

Its been a really tough go

[Iver]

Perhaps someone could share how it works under the SQ airline umbrella:

- If you are a current Silkair pilot and you want to transfer to Scoot (or you are bumped), would you need to fund part of your type rating?

- More generally, are current Silkair, SQ and SQC pilots able to bid around to the other carriers within the group? Can a current SQC pilot apply/bid to Scoot or even mainline SQ? Are Silkair pilots granted slots at SQ, SQC and Scoot?

- Does anyone know how the salary/benefits at Scoot compare to those at Silkair and SQC? I have heard Scoot pilots are paid on local terms and I assume those at mainline SQ are paid the highest.

- Where does SQ mainline expect to source all of the pilots required to fly their 50+ A350s and 30 787-10Xs currently on order? Is the current expectation that the pilot pipeline starts at the internal flight school and then the pilot progress up through Silkair before mainline SQ?

- Like Scoot, do mainline SQ ever higher experienced pilots from other airlines for junior FO positions (i.e., non expat captains - perhaps those from regional airlines like AirAsia, Lionair, Jetstar Asia, etc.)?


Cheers for any insight! PMs also welcome.

[vinayak]

I wonder how many are willing to pay the 50%

[captjns]

How many are willing to fully fund their T/R with the likes of Lion Air?

[ManaAdaSystem]

Are they hiring because people are leaving, or because of expansion?
Didn't SQ kick out their expats just recently, why not offer them a position with Scoot? Or maybe they did and were told to .... off?
Local pay in Scoot, does that mean you have the same employment protection as the locals, or just lower pay and the first to go if things turn bad?
Historically, expats have been sitting on ejections seats in SQ and SQC.

[jetjockey696]

you be surprised... the amount of CV (resumes) to Lion stating they willing to pay typerating.. for a job.. Of course people are stating that is wrong, bad morals etc.. but secretly accepting to pay for typerating.

Btw most are from Europe. not from India.

[millerscourt]

It will be interesting to see what Scoot claim are 50% of training costs seeing as how they are Singapore Airlines for all practical reasons as far as training costs

When I joined SQ as a DEC I had a huge bond ( which in my opinion bore no relation to what my conversion cost SQ) and had to put up a large bank guarantee, but I at least got it all back once I had completed 5 years on the line so the only cost to me was the charge made by DBS Bank for the paperwork, around S$1800 from memory.

If they expect Pilots to pay 50% of what SQ said it costs when I joined then on what they are paying to live in Singapore on the T & C's on offer I would be surprised if the deal will be of interest to many.

PS I can see another huge problem in the strength of the Singapore Dollar. When I put up my bank guarantee in cash the exchange rate was S$2.4 to the £ Stg but now it is what exactly to the £Stg around S$1.8? Not sure how the Sing $ is for other currencies like the Euro/US $

[ManaAdaSystem]

30 000 SGD was the cost posted on the Terms and conditions forum, not sure if that is 100 % or 50 %. And I'm not sure if that figure is up to date or even from a reliable source.
I've never paid for a rating before, but 30 000 SGD sounds just about right for a 777 rating?

[CDRW]

Mana - I think 30k is the bucks you stump up front in the form of a bank guerantee - the actual bond is round about 150k. Would you believe that Scoot want a bond for a TYPE rated guy - yea a type rated guy!!! Even a SQ ex 777 expat that is getting fired at the end of the month!! 18k - reason is so they dont leave in a hurry - get it back after three years.

Scoot are not expanding - what they are doing is getting a pool of applicants to have when the pilots they have now, give them the finger and bugger off to other lines!

[Iver]

Won't Scoot be adding 20 787s (former SQ orders)? I think Scoot currently operates 4-5 older 777s with the first 787 replacement aircraft arriving in 2014. Again, would be interesting to see if they charge for differences training...:{

[slowstream]

The terms and conditions on Scoot was very vague.

Does anyone have any more info, namely on the F/O package?

Does anyone here actually work for Scoot?

Is there anything more concrete than rumours?

Anyone from Scoot who has some reliable info that they would be willing to discuss or share with us or me via a PM?

I would be very grateful

Cheers

[richard III]

conditions are quite simple, 20K sgd gross for 80 hrs, about 17.5 net, no staff travel, no bonus period. Ok money in Singapore.....if you've got no kids. Planning to expand....if they make money. If management is as incompetent as SQ it will be a short adventure.... unless temasek wants to use it to write off tax, SQC style. True, type rated DEC's are bonded 18k, non rated bonded like if they took an apollo conversion, 30k off their own pocket.

[Iver]

Good info Richard.

Other questions: where has Scoot sourced its FOs (in past or recently)? Internal SQ sources (i.e., Silkair or SQC) or external sources (i.e., AirAsia, Jetstar, Lionair, etc.)? Also, how many FOs will likely be added this year - any estimate?

Cheers

[pilotchute]

Lion Air pay to flyers make up a more than a couple of the FO positions at Scoot. They just cant stop paying!!

[SADDLER]

What's this ground handling course?

[LindbergB767]

Slowstream
As you have A300. Why not try AHK
They are interviewing now

[slowstream]

Lindberg767,

I just left AHK so thats not an option and the night freight takes a special breed of person to do that.

[millerscourt]

SS It begs the question as to why you left AHK to be unemployed voluntarily when married with two young daughters? Better to do night freight I would have thought until you found a job elsewhere?

A lot of people will not be too concerned about your plight in view of that fact. Beggars cannot be choosers comes to mind with an A300 rating as a F/O.

[slowstream]

Millerscourt,

Your absolutely correct and like so many stories there is much more to it.

I would have never willingly jeopardized my family like that!
NOT in a million years would I have left without having something to go to!

Lets leave it at I got screwed and was left with no choice or options.

Now I have to find a way out of this mess and I was really just looking for some straight forward answers or advice.

Not too much to ask for I think.

[millerscourt]

SS I would have thought your best bet was to apply to one of the Gulf Airlines who at least have a career path for F/O's.

Any future employer is going to ask why you left AHK and they will not want to hear about you thinking they screwed you, as you will be labelled a trouble maker in their minds.

As an expat in Scoot as a F/O you will be unlikely to get an upgrade and are you able to come up with the cash for the training if that is what is required by them?

Also from my experience of renting in Singapore you had to put up 2months rent as deposit and one months rent in advance and in SQ you had to pay for the interview medical and hotel costs as well over 3 days.

SQ had a S$6000 loan available but whether those kind of things are still around these days I know not.

[subria023]

Slowstream, have you tried Air Asia?

[slowstream]

Millerscourt,

Thanks for the input, as well the information, its valued and very much appreciated!

The middle East is not an option for us.


subria023,

Yes I tried Air Asia as soon as my contract was terminated and was told they only look for Malaysian pilots now and must have a 320 rating.

Looks like I am out of options here in Asia and heading back home in a couple of weeks unless some sort of miracle happens.

[richard III]

Hi slow, sorry but the conditions stated are for captains, guessed the post was pretty straightforward, what's stated is what you get, nothing less nor more, It's a LoCo after all, Bonds are what they are, just bonds and that's what you will be bonded for. No idea what FO's make, but I don't think I'd be far off if I said 60% of a captains pay. Also as I said it's ok money if you do not have children, a cheap international school will set you back 20k. I posted an objective statement, no anger whatsoever, I just happen to know what the conditions are. And I can't blame anyone for the cost of living in Singapore which is a great town BTW. People asked and I tried to provide an objective answer, It's quite a personal choice if you decide to join them and the conditions suit you, even though I tend to agree with millers regarding career path, the pool of FO applicants comes from all over, these days, most probably from the extreme excess in mainline.
cheers
...forgot, you get 1.5k to buy your own health insurance, and no, do not work for them...

[ManaAdaSystem]

For what it's worth, I found nothing wrong with your initial post, richard.
Mr. slowstream seems to have a very short fuse judging from his reply.
It will not make his job hunting any easier, that's for sure.
Anyway, thanks for you info!

[richard III]

you are welcome mate.....no worries, I would probably be shortfused If I was in his situation, good luck with the hunting..

[slowstream]

Hi Richard & ManaAdaSystem,

First off, I am sorry if I came across as being short fused, it certainly was not my intention and I apologize for coming across that way. I am typically not a person with a short fuse.

Richard,

Thank you for your explanation of what you know about Scoot, I appreciate it. Clearly I was having a difficult day when I read your first post and trying to understand it for some reason, your second post was much clearer and I appreciated it. From what I've read I would say its not likely something I will pursue any further. The terms & Conditions you stated if accurate are beyond my capabilities right now or my willingness to accept.

So back home we go where I know the industry, the people and the conditions.
Its unfortunate that things turned out the way they did for me and my family, we certainly did like it out here.

Bye Asia

[Iver]

Slowstream,

Perhaps Asia is too difficult for many Europeans. If I were you I would definitely look to the Middle East as well - two big UAE carriers and Qatar Airways would probably appreciate your Airbus experience. I'd focus first on the UAE carriers and then Qatar if those don't work out. No doubt you would get ample opportunity to fly to Asia if you started on a widebody at one of those carriers.

Not getting picked up by an Asian carrier could be the best thing that happens to you if you find a better opportunity. :ok:

Good luck!

[slowstream]

Iver,

Thanks for the input, I am actually Canadian though. But yes I guess Asia was too difficult for me.

The option of going to the Middle East is not viable for us.

Unfortunately, it appears my only option is to return home to Canada.

I had three last "Hail-Mary's" I threw and was hoping that one of them would come through, a last minute miracle if you would. Scoot no longer seems suitable, Royal Brunei and Jetstar HKG won't likely happen in time.

Thanks for the input to all of you, I truly appreciate it!

Once again my most sincere apologies for my rude comments yesterday!

Slowstream

[richard III]

Slow, if I may give you some humble advice, take it or leave it as besides posting some facts and opinions that are just that, opinions, everybody has one. If you truly like asia and you think it's a project for you and your family, you just don't give up, there are plenty of jobs available for qualified pilots. I never said Scoot was a bad gig, nor tiger or Silk. I do think you can run into atrocious management that borders in the criminal, but you will find that in canada too. What's important is that you know what's on offer, and what will cost you to raise a family wherever you plan to set up shop. Having kids in international schools is financially challenging but extremely rewarding. If you think asia is for you and your family, so be it, you screen everywhere, make the cut everywhere and then you choose. Having options, wether good or bad is way better than having no options. Go screen, make the cut and then look for the info you need, I think you started the other way around, should you need info on how to manage to raise a family in this area of the world I can help, drop me a PM, If you want me to justify wether is worth trying this mob, all I can give you is an opinion and the numbers, it's for you to decide if you can make it on those numbers. But mate, you just don't give up....

[ab6]

Sirs does anyone s email or cells for the DFO or chief pilot at scoot?
Thanks
Don

[twins9]

So Scoot is "following" Lion Air in charging for training costs...and all airlines in South East Asia requires bonding because too many expat pilots ran away the moment they finished the type rating training! Blame the expats for spoiling the markets, we Asians learned the hard way that no one can be trusted without bonding.

[richard III]

Dear twins, bonding is practiced all over the world, and besides it cuts both ways, you can ask the 70+ expat pilots whose contracts where not honored by SQ... And this thread was started to get some info on Scoot, not to make idiotic and xenophobic remarks

[millerscourt]

richard111

All expat contracts clearly state that the company can give three months notice to the Employee if their services are no longer required regardless of how long the contract on paper has to run.

When that happens then I have no doubt SQ cancelled the outstanding bond and returned the bank guarantee money.

Pilots joining need to be aware that 3/5 year contracts are not worth the paper they are written on if there is a downturn in aviation. That applies to the Gulf Airlines as well. Just because it does not happen very often gives perhaps a false sense of security.

Even in the UK where one is on a permanent contract it does not stop one being made redundant when there is a downturn.

[richard III]

dear miller, never a truer word, but not when you are told in a meeting that ALL contracts will be respected for their entire length in november and in december they are all terminated sending everybody scrambling for a job....now THAT might be legal but is it a proper business practice?, sorry mate...that is either incompetent management or business practices that border
on piracy. Where I come from at least you can go to court if you think that you've been wrongly terminated (i.e.where's the downturn?) Anyway it is not what this thread is about, is it?....you can start one about it and believe you me, it will be hot...

[millerscourt]

richard 111

Quite right, this is not what the thread is about but you brought up that particular subject.

You say where you come from you can go to court. There is the classic mistake that Pilots and others make who do not realise that once they leave their own shores to work you are on your own without any legal backup. Not saying it is right though but was ever thus.

[richard III]

I must say again, never truer words mate...that example though was to put into context a reply to a xenophobic post...my apologies if misinterpreted, did not want to veer the thread into another direction
cheers

[ManaAdaSystem]

Out of curiosity, do you know if SQ over the years have terminated any expat pilots employed on local terms?

[richard III]

Not that I know of. Local terms guys are still safe. Over for all expat terms guys.

[slayerdude]

Yes.... In 2003 SQ retrenched 5 non-national co-pilots on local terms.... Along with 26 non-national captains on expat terms....... Now that 2013 house cleaning is over.... Next bunch on the chopping block are non-nationals on local terms....I"ve learned to never say never here!!!!!

[CDRW]

Expats, or non Singaporean are as safe as a house of cards in a storm, I would think. And I KNOW they feel that way too. Hence the rather numerous citizen ship change from Malaysian or Indian to Singaporean. The expat contract pilots get the bullet in 2 weeks time, and for foreign local pilots, that is the buffer gone!!! When things where bad it was always a good to have a go at the expats pilots, well next inline are the non Singaporean local pilots.

Millers - better start that separate thread!

[slayerdude]

In the SIA group,I think only SQ Cargo has some expat contract Capts and Co-pilots in the payroll. SQC has a good man running the show, but how long he can keep the HR folks from making an obvious case of termination of the expat contract remains a lost cause. It is their airline, and as 'foreign talent" one really remains a "guest" of the employers needs....one must always be looking for that opening with updated CV in tow constantly.New national policies to hiring of foreign talent to appeal to the electorate, HR folks that do hiring and firing with no idea as to the value of hours is a log book....that is the reality here in lion city..... It is their Airline.....sad but true

[ManaAdaSystem]

Good info, guys!
Why are SQ terminating pilots at the moment? Are they downsizing or just getting rid of the "expensive" expats?

[slayerdude]

Neither.... I would say bad management!!!!! But indeed it is a down sizing.... Through good times, total strength of the sq pax fleet was 110-115 a/c ..... That's number is now 101 a/c... Bad management cos there is non existent leadership in the sia group.... Sitting on 6 billion cash reserves and watching it go no where..... Clueless, directionless eunuchs

[CDRW]

The SQ Cargo expats have been told that no contracts will be renewed - but even if they are renewed it is a bit of a redundant exercise based on what mainline did to their expats. The contract is not worth shyte - it is a 3 month contract. SQC however have been interviewing and offering local term positions - a few have taken the offer but a few have declined - the package is, as someone put it, a bit of a challenge. And one is still working for the same parent company.

Tough times coming up for SIA - their 6 billion reserves may dwindle down to 5.5 billion - and that to the powers that be, is sinful as it can get.

[faireydelta]

Has anyone heard back or been contacted by Scoot since the latest Job Postings went up? Thanks.

[slowstream]

Two weeks and not a word, hmmmmm:rolleyes:

[F Dolarhyde]

CDRW. No one has been told that there will be no renewals. All expats have had their contracts renewed on expat terms last six months. Most guys who was not renewed are close to or over 60. But, you are correct in that the new hires (ex SIA expats) are all on local terms.

And, don't worry about SIA:s financial status. The 5,5 billion reserves is only the cash part. The net assets of the company are about 20 billion. They will be around loooong after you and I are gone.

[jack s]

not just aviation, many companies offer Singapore as a life style choice hence dont need to offer expat pay to attract the right talent.

[Ejector]

Seen the cost to rent a crappy 1 room apartment in Sing, I hardly call it a lifestyle choice. :ok:

[RoyChadwick]

I've had some interesting feedback from one of the board members recently via PM, though he doesn't work for Scoot.

Could I have some info from anyone who works for Scoot re (work/roster) patterns and amount of standby likely?

Expat or local guys - I thank you for any comments direct to the board, or via PM.

Roy.

[airplanedriver]

I applied as soon as the ad was posted, but haven't heard anything still. Anyone been contacted or have any info regarding the "actual" status re the current recruitment at scoot?

[787skipper]

Hi guys,

Reliable sources inform that they are gearing for B787 inception in late 2014 and will need crew to fill their B777 slots. appears that they are establishing a database of interested applicants. Don't think slots are available in the near future.

[faireydelta]

An acquaintance just told me that Scoot called him maybe 10 days ago asking if he would be interested in a 777 command position (he says he hadn't even applied).

Is he just flapping his gums, or are they gearing up? Has anybody heard from them?

[Chocks Away]

They are desperate, as the word is out about their poor terms and conditions, full of promise but short on delivery, in a city now more expensive than HKG!
Be very careful of any dealings with Singaporeans, especially with the current fierce anti-expat moves of parent company SQ. (Ask the crew if you see them, they are more than happy to tell you how it is & how many are wanting to leave!)

[EL CAPITAN]

Firydelta, your friend is full of BS, Scoot does not call anybody over the phone, and for those guys outside Singapore there are a lot of interested guys flying for the local airlines with a Singaporean license who would get a first call. Yes Scoot will need lots of guys over the next few years once the 787 goes into full throttle . So just apply and wait.....:ok:

[Speedbake]

Hi folks,

Anyone knows what the assessment like for copilot position.
There seem to be not much written about it. As well can any one
confirm salary net of taxes is about $10500 US for an FO ?

Thanks in advance & happy landings.

[Speedbake]

Wow.....up to now there is no reply!! What's going on folks? no one wants to share info. here?? :ugh: :hmm:

[airplanedriver]

I dont believe they're actually recruiting, think about it, they just axed pretty much all the expats on the mainline. So why will they recruit expats on one of their subsidiaries? Last i heard some of those guys from SQ were being absorbed to scoot, this is all rumor though. I applied as soon as the ad came but i had no expectation so not disappointed

[Speedbake]

So if they are not recruiting then why did they have the ad. out there?? they could have easily taken in the guys from SQ who were furloughed and interested to be bonded and can pay up the 50% for TR if not typed!! right? I have even heard they have even taken guys who were not flying Boeing!! and they have given them TR. :ugh:

[airplanedriver]

Yeah im also quite confused as to why they put the ad. But i think its safe to say that the guys who were furloughed at SQ are are the ones you mentioned, this is the rumor at least, its strange the way these guys work really, just imagine the folks who were asked to go, all of them loyally served the company for probably 20 years, suddenly they find themselves without a contract. Also with the the 787 coming in to replace the 777 there will be no TR given to expats im pretty sure about that, i mean any new recruits

[Speedbake]

AD, am not sure about what you are saying really!!! have look at this link and for sure these cojos don't even look as if they have been at SQ for 20 years time, so with all do respect I really don't know where you getting your info.from???

Scoot launches new route to Bangkok Suvarnabhumi Airport | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2012/07/11/scoot-launches-new-route-to-bangkok-suvarnabhumi-airport/)

[airplanedriver]

So what about ur link mate??? They started a route to BKK, whats your point?? The chief pilot u see on ur link has been with SQ for a very long time, yes, they may have recruited some guys last year, but they seem to have got their numbers now, thats what i'm trying to say... Also i said very clearly that its the "rumor" that they absorbed the guys furloughed from SQ, also when u don't get a reply after almost 2 months, u pretty much need to forget it buddy, Safe landings

[Speedbake]

AD, My point was very clear, I don't understand why you don't get it?? the video is clear indication to me and it should be to you these FOs don't look like the guys you
are referring to spending 20 years at SQ since they are fairly young!! I never referred to the CP in my previous post!! that's all am saying.....and matter fact I have
done little bit of research on this great website and managed to find one post by chap who seem to have authentic info. on the airline in which I will share with you
below...have great day mate;

(Scoot's pilots are all hired externally, with the bulk being non B777 type rated... The only SIA pilots are the flight ops management team. They've also taken on some of the old expats that retired from SIA at 62, retirement with Scoot's 65. The airline should be opening up for new hirings by the end of 2012, to crew the 777s coming in next year on. Apparently 777 type rated pilots are very welcome but hard to come by)

happy flying folks

[richard III]

If 777 guys are so welcome, how come there's only a handful of ex SQ guys rated and ready to fly with a Singapore license?no relocation at all, how come they didn't look at the 70 guys whose contract was not honored by SQ ? Wake up mate, this mob is building a database in case business picks up, that's all....and that's the way the Singaporean business mind works...period

[Speedbake]

Hey guys just don't shoot the messenger, am just stating
what the guys are saying! you can search yourselves on pprune and find out all the info..

Cheers.......

[Chocks Away]

Apparently 777 type rated pilots are very welcome but hard to come by.

Indeed they are!
Most are not willing to accept the ****e terms & conditions on offer there and the racism/anti-expat sentiment that is growing stronger, in what is a VERY expensive city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_employees) now.
Remember:
No firm RDO's; on standby constantly and MUST answer phone; no 13-month bonus like the rest of Singapore (ie you work 1 month FREE, on the 28 day roster!); no housing, no proper medical; meal allowances less than actual; no fatigue management; rostering favoritism; bonding in excess of local regs; no Provident Fund allowance unless have Residency (and all except 1 have been refused!)... gone through 4 heads of Check & Training since starting and an expat Safety Manager who left (currently no safety manager!), can't hold onto F/A's as many have/are leaving before their bond is up... 4 Capts just resigned and they're trying to shaft yet another F/O (ontop of the few other crew gone already).

I would think very long & hard about joining such a situation, especially when there's so much better out there. :rolleyes:

[richard III]

SB, Sorry mate, that sounded a bit.....assertive? Didn't mean to, just tried to expose the overall picture ....nothing wrong with applying, just don't hold your breath

[Speedbake]

Richard 111,

no worries mate.!!

Royal Navy,

Thanks for the detailed info. on Scoot, I really appreciated.
Any chance you can shed some light on the interview, basic salary & complete
salary what sort of flying hours promised & what is the actual/average hours being
flown per month. The rest of what you have mentioned is merely a mirror image
of my current airline unfortunately!!
the only thing for me is flying bigger machine and that's what I will be looking
forward to and a chance for command down the line.

Thanks & look forward to your reply or PM.

Happy flying

[airplanedriver]

Speedbake, if its command ur after, i very sincerely will tell u, forget it on ANY of the SIA subsidiaries!! They will NOT, i repeat NOT promote any expats, unless u stay there long enough for the culture to change completely, better try the sandpit, its a better option, just my two cents, cheers

[overmars]

airplanedriver:

That's not entirely true. It depends on what you mean by an expat. Do you mean a foreigner on an expatriate contract i.e. housing allowance, children's education allowance, or do you mean just a plain foreigner?

I can say that in SIA, since there are no longer anymore foreigners on expatriate contracts, the topic is moot.

In Silkair, there never was any expatriate contracts. Somehow, the foreigners learnt how to live in Singapore without the need of an expatriate contact.

In Scoot, I don't believe there is anyone on expat contracts.

In SIA Cargo, there are no more First Officers on expatriate contracts. Only pilots on expatriate contracts are the Captains. Foreign First Officers not on expatriate contracts, meaning on national terms, can, and have been, upgraded to the captain's seat. They just have to fulfill certain requirements on years of service, sectors, hours, etc.

Hope this clarifies.

[airplanedriver]

Ok maybe i forgot to mention that foreigners if on 'local' terms like u say may have a chance, but for a F/o without housing at least, would be real hard to survive in Sin and yes i meant expatriate terms, i didn't mean it as a racial discrimination or anything pls don't get me wrong. There have been instances of foreigners getting command, but how many really, and reality is many of the local f/o's at cargo and mainline left for other Airlines cos command would have taken them so long and some of them made it on the left seat way sooner at those Airlines. Maybe it has changed since the time i was a there a few years back. And if its command ur after, go to tiger if u have bus time, or middle east, etihad maybe, better chances.

[overmars]

Airplanedriver:

Hey, no problem. I didn't see a tinge of racial discrimination whatsoever in your post.

It is true that FOs are leaving SIA by the hordes to other airlines. I am not sure about the period like 10 years ago but I believe other carriers offer command opportunities much earlier now compared to SIA due to the obscenely thick layer of FO fat at the moment. However, among the subsidiaries, I think the highest chance of getting an upgrade would be in Silkair and Scoot, just because they have plans for expansion.

With regards to housing allowance, yes, it is a challenge to "get by" in Singapore without it. But, honestly, it depends on the lifestyle that you want to have. You can't live an 'expat lifestyle' without an expat contract. Not without a huge saving you can dip into. If you 'live like a local', meaning, do your shopping at NTUC Fairprice, eat at the food centre downstairs, send your kids to a local school (which is of pretty high standards actually), not party all day all night at Clark Quay... it is do-able. Many non-local FOs are on local terms doing just that.

Ok I digressed at the end...

[airplanedriver]

Overmars, buddy ur absolutely spot on, it all depends on the lifestyle. Thats how it was when i was at cargo some years back, and actually shopping at fairprice is pretty good, better than most supermarkets in other parts of the region. Also schooling and public transport is of a very high standard so it all depends on u like u mentioned.

However, why i left was at the time, my command opportunities were little or nothing, but maybe like u say scoot and Silkair are different now. It would certainly make more sense joining a middle eastern airline purely for command prospects in my opinion.
But where lifestyle is concerned, i would be a f/o and forget command rather than having to move to the middle east, thats cos family, and life in general is what comes first to me than command and career advancement. But, for most probably it might be otherwise

[Speedbake]

Airplanedriver

I have couple of friends that got a job with silk air few years
back now they are both Captains for the last little while. So definitely
the opportunity is there specially if the airline is in the expansion phase!
and yes they are both on local contracts. Myself am not just after the
command but the opportunity to fly the 777 and experience the far east.
I have been to KL several times & I tend to like it. I figured scoot would
be good opportunity given the fact I only have girlfriend with no luggage at
this time it is easy to relocate.

Overmars

thanks for your comments.

[Storpikk]

Got invited for an interview with this clowns.

First you have to pay for travel and hotel during interview out of your own pocket.

1) After Check you can expect 11,000-12,000 SGD a month= $USD $8870.00.00-$USD $9677.44 a month (Yearly) $106,451.00- $116,129.00 USD
2)Base pay per month $5,700 SGD= $USD $4596.00 USD
3) $72.00 SGD per hour = $58.06 USD
4) Average hours per month 75-85


Now for the training bond, if you don't have a B-777 rating you will have to pay for it
1) either $9,000 SGD paid upfront, or the will take 3,000 sgd from your pay each month.
2) then $400.00 SGD for each month until the rating is paid for which the total will be $33,000 SGD

Then add to this rent for an apartment in Singapore that will run around 2500-3000 USD a month.

No Staff travel.

I said no thanks, no way.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Boeing Europe]

Just curious is this for captain or first officer?? And what's your experience, sounds like very very low pay

[airplanedriver]

I'm guessing this is for F/O

[lingdee]

hi storpikk,

Though you are an experience pilot,i guess you have not keep track with the aviation industry as of today.

The day of getting free ticket and hotel for interviews or getting a type rating for free is long over.

Flyscoot is a sister airline of SIA, one of the most reputable airline in the world and they are now in the " save cost " mode to ask even experience pilots to pay for rating.

[flyhardmo]

Storpikk well done for showing some self worth and integrity however there will always be some cheaper pilot willing to prostitute themselves.

lingdee said
the day of getting free ticket and hotel for interviews or getting a type rating for free is long over.

Exactly what managers want hear from pilots. It's that sort of attitudes that allows companies like scat to rip you off. Funny enough emirates still pays for tickets, hotel and type rating.:ouch:

[squarecrow]

Free typerating? no such thing you enter a bond normally. I think there is plenty of companies left as u said flyhardmo. Unfortunately with the growing number of P2F's and the like Airline's will probably take advantage and that number will dwindle. Why not if some pillock wants to pay I probably would take advantage to save cost's as well if I was an HR guy.

[Iver]

I would think it is best to approach these jobs with current type ratings. That said, the expense of living in Singapore (especially with a family) is prohibitive on these salaries.

I would not be surprised if Scoot actually sourced its pilots from experienced Singapore-based Jetstar Asia or Silkair pilots already on local terms who aspire to fly shiny 777s and 787s someday. :cool: Scoot should not expect to attract many well-qualified former EK or QR drivers with that package - and I think they know that. They probably assume that paying a "premium" for very experienced pilots from the ME is not necessary given the local pilots already willing to fly for such low terms.

Anyone know where recent newhires have been sourced? In this case, let's hope newhire pilots have spouses/partners who also work so that they can afford the basics in that expensive city.

[Metro man]

There is an ex SQ B777 parked at Changi with all the SQ livery removed. Waiting for a refit and going to Scoot I'd reckon. 9V - SRI

[WSSS]

Anyone know where recent newhires have been sourced?

A few have come from Lion Air P2Fs. No shortage of pay to fly wannabes there. :rolleyes: Pay to fly a B739, and now pay for a B777 type rating. What's next? pay for captaincy training? :ugh:

[chronos1701]

9V-SRI is fresh out of a maintenance check and is bring sold to a lessor.

[pilotchute]

So after tax, rent, bills, paying back your type and what ever else you would be lucky to be on $5500 US a month in your pocket?

Twin Otter and Caravan pilots in Laos, Cambodia and Indonesia make that with all expenses covered with couple of free flight home per year.

So your saying that its possible to make the same pay after expenses buzzing around in a Van or a Twotter than a triple 7 FO?

[lingdee]

Less than that as the above salary is gross pay and the 15% tax has not been included and also your utilities and transportation bill.

With that said, there are tons of expats from Indonesian waiting in que especially those from sri wijaya , merpati n the 400+ strong expats at lion.

We have plenty of 737 drivers here is India dying to crossover too

Flyscoot under the umbrella of world class airline like sia is not the first to ask pilots to pay.

5 star airline in the Middle East like Qatar airways expects new cadets to fund all their training plus type rating with not a single cent of salary.

[SOPS]

Linder..I hate to destroy you thoughts....but all Emirates cadets are fully funded by Emirates. All flying training, ground schools, line training..whatever you can think of is paid by EK..and they get paid a salary from day 1.

If you join Emirates as a " normal" pilot, you get ground school, type rating and the rest for free, plus get paid a salary from day 1.

Then there are the rest of the perks..available on the EK web site.

EK has its faults, but it still remains one of the best employers around, and they never charge anyone for training.

Please get your facts right, before you post.

[Stallone]

But really, only cadets enjoy such "perks" of "free for all"

how many people are lucky enough to be an airline cadet out of all the current pilots in the industry?

It's akin to saying Canada has the best work life balance for a worker in the whole wide world and nobody else should live anywhere else other than Canada. :ugh:

[Metro man]

EK offers it's pilots a good package as compensation for having to live in the desert, they want a certain standard of applicant and have deep enough pockets to offer enough of a deal to get the people they want.

Scoot can't match EK's package but might be more attractive to someone who doesn't fancy the sand pit, or someone who wants to get a couple of thousand hours on the B777 and try his luck as a direct entry captain somewhere else. It could also do as a retirement job.

[lingdee]

SOPS, you are correct except you miss one point. Sponsored cadets are ONLY for locals or those who hold UAE passport.

What about other nationalities worldwide who are jobless today?

You join pprune on 1999 means you are an experience pilot. What may worked at your time has vanished for the aviation industry today.

With 8000 jobless pilots in india, and even there are hundreds of countries worldwide and I am going to take 40 assuming each country has only 1000 jobless pilots, collectively there are close to 50k jobless pilots worldwide.

Many will never ever become a pilot especially the inexperience one and getting a job for them to fly is like striking a lottery. Most will hang their blue CPL book as a memento and subsequently change career.

And we all know we are also competing with experience pilots which have much more advantages than us.

I have send my resume to almost every airline in the world and 99% there will not be a reply or the door slam directly to me if you do not have 500 hours on type.

Even I am willing to take a loan to pay and have contacted ST technologies to esquire about their Qatar and tiger airways cadet program, that also they say it's a no go since I am not local or do not have a Singapore passport or permanent resident.

[Storpikk]

Well my friend, any honorable real airline will furnish a ticket and hotel during the interview. The race to the bottom is the LCC carriers and people that accept the increasingly ****ty terms.

If you want to work for free or pay for your own training, go ahead. As for me I don't. Its all about pride and not being wowed by that shiny jet.

Have some back bone.....

[rdr]

Storpik, that's your choice, have some backbone to respect the choice of others.

[Hunter86]

Guys, I went for an interview a while back at Scoot. They were very badly organised and expected you to pay for everything. There were a few surprises in terms of extra things you had toay for and HR refused to let you know about remuneration etc. until the actual interview. To add insult to injury the training bond is quite expensive and came as a surprise. This may seem ok to some except when you realise that in doing this the airline carries no risk. They can call as many people as they want and screw you around with no cost to themselves.

Personally, I think that Singapore is a potentially good place to live but think carefully before you make a move like that. Scoot have a bright future but doesn't look like a viable long term option for established guys.

I'm off to the sand pit now and glad that things worked out the way they did - more bucks and better company culture. Also, the bad faith displayed by scoot in this instance is maybe an indication of an underlying tendency towards crew there that could lead to eventual unhappiness. I only have my experiences to go on.

That's my two cents worth. Negative rant is over.

[Chocks Away]

Storpikk - well said.
rdr - why does he need some "backbone" to respect the choice of others? That's not even Singlish!

Be careful what you wish for! (http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/files/import/136986-Shiny%20Jet%20Syndrome%201.pdf)

Hunter - very well picked up : Also, the bad faith displayed by scoot in this instance is maybe an indication of an underlying tendency towards crew there

[Storpikk]

Yes I respect the fact you are a fool with zero integrity thats willing to work for poor pay and benefits, diluting this industry even further. I think we call that desperate.....they love guys like you.

[Storpikk]

Well said Hunter....

[rollingscissors]

Have some guts, pilots! Don't just lay down and let companies abuse you with bad work rules and pay. The industry is infested with too many mice and scabs willing to degrade themselves for an hour and a dollar (or Yuan).

Keep this up and the profession will be no better than airline janitorial services.

[THRidle]

Rollingscissors, I appreciate your point of view but on some occasions you have no choice. Do you realise apart from being qualified to fly multi-million dollar aircraft, most pilots have no other qualifications.

A friend of mine ( Captain 767 ) found himself unemployed and couldn't even get a job stacking shevles at a large department store between midnight and six a.m. Reason- No previous retail experience. !!!

So spare a thought for the unemployed with a family to support.:ok:

[hoover1]

Has anyone been to an interview lately that wished to share their experience?

[GoForIt]

rollingscissors,

Economics 101.
Supply and Demand
Supply and Demand
Supply and Demand

No one takes a low paying job by choice. As long as there is more supply of pilots than there is demand for their services, there will be employers taking advantage of the opportunity to buy talent at a rock bottom price.

And by the way, as a consumer you do the same thing. You don't go to the car dealer and offer to pay an extra $xxxx over asking price for a car because you are impressed with the quality. You shop around and negotiate for the best price you can get. Why shouldn't employers do the same?

definition of insanity: unwillingness to accept reality as it is.

just GoForIt!

[CDRW]

Gents - the management of SQ are absolute masters of pushing the limits of poor terms and conditions - just have a look at SQ Cargo - or the early days of SQ Cargo and the contracts that where offered.

"Scoot management" - and the word management is used generously, may even ask candidates to pay for THEIR time ( as in the management) in conducting ill prepared and badly organised interviews!

The only candidates who suit a Scoot contract are retired pilots who really don't need the money and who simply like to fly as a hobby.

[Chicken Arrows]

Does anybody know if it is possible to live in Malaysia and commute from there in order to reduce expenses ??:confused:

[Cross Check]

For starters on a Scoot roster there's hardly enough consecutive days off to make it worth living off the island when you're not on duty, but if you're brave then consider this...

You willl hold a Singaporean work permit which will smooth the way through Singaporean Immigration (presumably without the usual Entry Card or date stamps), but if you're not Malaysian then entry into Malaysia, whether it be Johor or KL, will be as a tourist (Social Visit Pass of xx days). Fortunately Malaysia has done away with the Entry Card (don't know why Singapore persists with it), but the entry stamp and corresponding exit stamp will take up one half of a passport page each time - 8 times in a month, that's 4 pages of a typical 32 page passport... do you like filing for new passports all the time?

Then there's the Causeway, anyone who's crossed during rush hour (which seems to be most of the time except the wee small hours) would know it's probably faster to swim. Tuas link works better, but it's a longer drive and more toll. Fly to KUL or SZB, can, but when you take the time required and cost of the fares you're just buying yourself a headache.

Malaysians in SQ have commuted in the past - it only really works for them, not for anyone else.

[alldaysushi]

Hello All,

Please advise if any candidates attended a recent Scoot screening. Any comments, intel, etc..., I turned away on the opportunity, just curious.

Thanks,

Sushi

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

Hi there.... Has anyone on here, who's attended the Scoot selection process, be kind enough to share the relevant details. As in what to expect in the written test, the sim profile etc.

Thanks in advance.......:)

[millerscourt]

I would imagine that one of the tests is to have confirmation that the applicant is really stupid and not faking it to want to work at Scoot on what they are offering:{

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

Your point is taken Millerscourt. I understand that a lot of people have posted negative comments on here w.r.t Scoot.

Be that as it may, I would appreciate it if someone who has been through the selection process, would kindly share details regarding the same. Especially the sim profile, and the type of questions covered in the written test.

Once again, thanks in advance.:)

[Cross Check]

Which bit of 'selection process' are you referring to? The bit you have to do at home first or the bit you do once you haul your @r$e to SIN and smile sweetly?

Because you said sim I'll presume the latter. The sim is straightforward like any other reasonable airline with reasonable examiners - visual circuit work, handling skills, some basic IR and of course OEO handling - nothing exceptional. HR on the other hand is quite something else, but it's Singapore so I shouldn't be surprised.

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

@Cross Check......

Thanks a lot for that info. mate.... much appreciated.

Also, could you share some info. on the written test as well. I ask because I'm from the 'other side' (Airbus FBW)...... :)

[Cross Check]

I like to say but not aware of one. If they're wondering why your online psychometric test results were astronomical they might make you resit them. Other than that I can't comment with any certainty.

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

@Cross Check....

Thanks for your input mate. So it's possible that they don't conduct a written test, is it. That would be a first for me, 'cause whoever I have worked for so far has always included one in their assessment process.

Once again, thanks for your help. Safe skies... :)

[Cross Check]

By written tests are you by chances referring to aptitude/IQ/personality tests administered by pencil n paper (or perhaps some by computer) like say EK or EY? If so then yes, Scoot also does them, but you wont be in Singapore for it. Similarly for the first stage interview. You won't even leave home for them. :hmm:

[KOSU]

As of now, Scoot is asking for a 57,000S$ banker guarantee or a surety for the 777 training bond! Sounds like a strong heritage from SIA. :mad:

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

@Cross Check......once again, thanks for that information mate. I was actually wondering about a technical exam (written). In the event they do administer one (online or in Singapore), I wanted to know the kind of questions one has to answer on there, and if there is anything specific to the 777.

@Kosu..... wow that's quite steep. And would this 57K be over and above the amount one has to pay upfront ?


Thanks much for info. :)

[KOSU]

Yes the 57,000 is on top of everything said before, 9k up front 400 a month.

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

Wow !! That's a lot mate.....

So, just for information's sake, how does a foreigner go about getting a banker's guarantee in Singapore ? I mean, doesn't one have to build financial credibility and/or a good credit rating in a country for over a few years, before one can apply for such a banker's guarantee ?

[etops777]

Wannabe airbus

The bank guaranteed does not need you to
have a good credit..it's simply you putting your
money into the bank that will be issuing the guarantee.

Your money will be lock in for the period required by the company

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

@etops777...

A 100 percent margin then.

That's quite an ask I must say.... to assume that every pilot coming to work for an airline shall have SGD 66,000 (57K for the BG, and 9K upfront) available to pay them, considering the fact that they shall have to spend at least SGD 10-15,000 for a decent apartment (rent+deposit) before seeing a salary. Additionally, one has to have enough liquidity to survive in Singapore for a month or two till there is a regular income as a result of service rendered. Also, in the event one has to pay for their own Class 1 medical; Air Law, HPL and Performance A exams, thats another SGD 1,500 spent. It would be interesting to see how things pan out.

Anyways gents, I thank each one of you for taking the time out to respond to my queries, and Happy Landings to all..... :)

[millerscourt]

WAF

That is why I said you need to be stupid to want to join Scoot on those terms. As already said by others you also need to be rich to join which was ever thus.

I joined SQ Mainline as a DEC in the late 90's when the expat package made it worthwhile to deposit the bank guarantee as one gets it back after 5 years on the line. You can if you have enough equity in your house get the bank to act as guarantee but I think from memory it has to have a branch in Singapore.

One always had to pay for the initial medical and hotel costs when coming for an interview but in those days SQ provided free hotel for I think 10 days and gave an interest free loan of S$6000 on joining. All the other expat allowances like Rental Allowance, School Fees , Good Profit Share have I gather all gone by the board now.

PS I should add that the bank in Singapore that does the bank guarantee charges about S$2000 for the paperwork although you do get some interest if you deposit the money with them over 5 years rather than using equity in your home property as guarantee.

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

@millerscourt......

Thanks much for that informative response. I guess BG or no BG, and everything else is merely conjecture just yet, and one shall have to wait and see how things pan out over at Scoot. Also, I think it's best not to form an opinion till we see what's in black and white. If at that time, the T&C's are unacceptable to the individual in question, then the option to say no shall always remain available.

Thanks once again.... Happy Landings :)

[CDRW]

Any truth in the rumour that SQ mainline management captains are being used to keep the services running, due to a rather large exodus of Scoot captains??

[hoover1]

So people are passing the home interview? Myself and four others took the home interview and all of us did not pass. All with extensive experience on Boeing all for the Captain position. Thought it strange that all of us should not pass.

[WannabeAirbusFlyer]

@hoover1.....

Sorry to hear about that. I am sure you'll get a better offer elsewhere. If you don't mind me asking, did you get an email from them saying that you were unsuccessful ?

[CDRW]

hoover1 = maybe they did the 4 of you a service - I know it is easy to say from the comfort of having a job - and if you unemployed anything is better than nothing ( been there)- but the initial costs of setting up in Singapore are mind blowingly huge. The pay is shockingly small and living in a HDB may be something you not quite used to. And if you have kids to educate .....

[patty-777]

Hover1,
Sorry to hear that. Are you a type rated b777? I think if you pass the home exam you will get email from HR in 2-3 days. They appointed me on 14 Feb for interview in Sin. Still not sure it's a good to move there as now i'm in a blowing sandpit.

Cheers,

[sage1]

I have just been through the process with these :mad:'s. This is how it went for me.

1. Read about job on scoot website (pay 50% of type rating....OK)
2. apply
3. Do on line exams including "flying down tunnel thing" and ridiculous video interview. easy so far.
4. Get invited for interview in Sing.
5. Refuse to go until I am told at least what the pay etc is.
6. Told 9000 + 400 per month for 50% of rating and "approx" 20000 per month in. ok so far.
7. Pay own way to Sing. Airfares, hotels etc etc.
8. First day sit through video with clowns in yellow T-shirts jumping around with "scootatude". A slide show including the finance side of things. At this point hear ( for the first time) about $57000 "training bond". That's how I and another 2 guy's I went through the sim with heard it anyway. Should have walked at this point! Didn't...So onto group crm thingy. no fistycuffs in our group so onto individual interview. All easy and painless. emailed that night all ok onto sim
9. Sim. If only they where all so easy. Normal take off ILS, go round, visual circuit, land EFATO back for ILS and land. Checkie and company F/O both good guy's. emailed that night all ok go to medical
10. Medical next day. standard. Another $420 thank you very much plus taxis
11. So next day invited to office and a contract with start date was given to me happy days. All good till page 3. For the first time hear about bank bond for $57000.
and by the way "when the 787's come you will have another bond on top but we don't know what that is yet". "Sign here please".
12. Dare to question. Job offer withdrawn.

In summary if you have deep pockets (My rough calculation is you need at least $80000 before seeing one cent) and no self respect then this is the job for you.
I understand when your out of work you take what you can get. The contract however is written in such a way that, worse case, they fire you first day for anything they want and you owe them 57000+33000=90000

[portquartercv67]

Sage1,

I am sure many prospective candidates for Scoot will be very grateful for your informative and detailed account of the hiring process. I'm not too sure though about the last item "down side" you mention about being out S$90,000 if they let you go for whatever reason.

I did a 5 year contract with SIAC; bank guarantee up front which I deposited in a local bank and signed a $140,000 training bond. The terms of the training bond/contract were such that if they let me go, I was not liable for any of the remaining bond (as the bond liability decreases in a monthly prorated amount) and I would get my guarantee (cash) back.

The S$9,000; is that paid directly to Scoot or is that held in a Singapore bank as a guarantee?

And I assume from the numbers you posted that the contract is 5 years?

If they terminated your contract, sounds like you would be at worst out the $400/month that was deducted from your pay for however many months you served but I'm pretty sure you would get your $9,000 back and be forgiven for the bond. After all, the whole reason for the guarantee/up front and bond is that one doesn't take off after getting the type and the minimum PIC time that would allow one to move on to greener (drier) pastures.

BTW, does the contract have an "end of contract bonus" in it? Mine did, S$10,000 for every year I served, assuming one completed the entire contract.

Any moving expenses? Moving there and end of contract?

Airline ticket to start contract and at end of contract to return to home base for you/spouse?

Any staff travel with SIA or Scoot?

Any medical coverage? The medical coverage I had with SIAC was excellent. They basically paid for everything I had done except for nominal co-pays (S$15) any time I saw a specialist.

Does the contract have 10 days paid at the Roxy hotel at start of contract?

Please forgive me if I'm way off base as obviously I have not read the Scoot contract, only had experience with the basic SIA HR culture.

[sage1]

You pay 9000 to scoot you pay 57000 as a capt 47000 as an fo into a Singapore bank bond. 66000 so far. You pay all tickets and accommodation for interview + start finish etc of contract. Contract is five years. You need to be in Singapore about 2 weeks before start of type rating to complete sing license req air law human factors. You pay for everything. Assuming you get paid 4 weeks after starting training that's 6 weeks you've supported yourself in Singapore. License conversion was 395 l think on top off medical 420. You get travel from scoot only not sia or anyone else. There is no end of contract bonus. The scoot pilots l came across in the interview/sim process where good guys. The hr were not so much. Not sure if I've answered all your questions but note this is the first time I've ever felt the need to post on prune. At the very least people can turn up in Singapore with the truth and not scoot lies.

[Iver]

Yikes!!! Sounds completely emasculating!!!! Scoot = Crap Shoot

Plenty of ME carriers hiring if you qualify and if you don't mind wearing copious amounts of suntan lotion... :cool:

[hoover1]

Thats too rich for my blood. And to have to re-bond for the 787 in a yr is a little absurd. Too bad as there is a real draw there if they adjust their T&Cs.

[ManaAdaSystem]

Apart from all the misc expenses (hotel, medical, license, etc), what are we talking about here?
For a captain, 57000 SGD bond for 5 years? I've been bonded before, so if you don't jump ship, this money will be yours at the end of those 5 years, right? Is this bond reduced monthly?
9000 SGD up front and 400 SGD month for 5 years = 33000 SGD total. This is what you need to pay for the conversion? Non refundable. Can you pay 33000 SGD up front and be done with it?
For a captain the pay is about 20000 SGD/month (including everything) minus 5 % tax for the first 5 years (subject to approval), then 15 % tax?
Absolutely no extras (housing, school, bonus, etc) on top of the 20000 SGD, except staff travel on Scoot only?
What about medical coverage for yourself and your family?

Are my numbers just about right?

[CDRW]

Well at last some numbers are being presented. It is just unbelievable how much financing one needs to start in Scoot - and what Sage and others have not mentioned is that there are a whole lot more costs in setting up in Singers!

Say you find an apartment for hmmm.... 5k a month - you need a months payment down, the current month and a month in advance. Boom another 15K needed.

Say you need to find a school - ( not local). Same rules apply - take a terms fee and multiply by 3.

Now sure you will get alot of this back - when you leave, but we are talking setting up here! You need to be well off to join them unless you type rated and even then the delinquent management want a 9K security deposit!

And do remember that the parent company is SIA, who last year dismissed around 70 employees ( they invoked the three month notice period and generously gave 5 months notice and that is all they gave ).

Scoot does suit some individuals- wealthy, set up, no mortgage and the kids left school, like living in Singapore and flying is now a hobby.

[ManaAdaSystem]

What 9000 SGD security deposit are you talking about?

[etops777]

Mana

The 9000 sgd is not a security deposit but a initial cost of the self funded type rating. Pilot pay 9000 sgd then 400 per month from your salary for the coat of the conversion.

[CDRW]

Sorry - I think etops is correct ref the 9k. If one is type rated, they ( the delinquent management) want 18k upfront as a "bond"- I think its two years but maybe one. This bond is to encourage you not to leave in the first few years!

So come on Scooter pilots tell us - how many have packed their bags and gone off to some else place in the last few months?

[ManaAdaSystem]

Are you posting actual information, or just rumours and pub facts?
There is a 9000 SGD payment up front for non rated pilots, and then 400 SGD monthly for the next 5 years. This is money you have to pay for the rating.
You said there is a 9000 SGD security deposit for RATED pilots, and now you double this deposit to 18000 SGD???? Then you say this is a bond for one maybe two years. But there is already a bond, 57000 SGD.
Some factual information would be nice. If this is the way you THINK it is, please just say so.

[CDRW]

Mana - like the name of the very website we on???

If you want FACTS go and do the interview and ask them. Whether you type rated or not, if you join Scooter they want to have a hold on you!!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Yes, I know what a bond is, and I don't mind one if I don't intend to make a move. I don't apply for a job just to jump ship as soon as possible.
In order to make a decision I try to gather as much factual information as possible.
It does not help if you just throw out random numbers when you pretty much have no idea what you are talking about.
It's like Iver giving advice on living and working in the Middle East (and now also South East Asia) when he has never worked or lived there.

[vfenext]

The last thing we need is another Iver, giving advice on every forum about things he knows nothing about. If you read his posts it looks like he has lived and worked in every region and airline in the world. CDRW, stick to the facts, people sometimes base serious decisions on what they read here. Foolish or not it's what happens

[CDRW]

Yup Mana - if 15 years working for the parent airline and having been there at the inception of Scoot means I do not know what I am talking about then so be it. If you using this forum to gather factual information then vf last sentence applies. Good luck.

[ManaAdaSystem]

I don't think you get it.

[Chill]

Well the animosity between SQ mainline and Scoot is palpable - that would certainly colour what may be reported in here.

I think CD gets it, but it's an intentional (or not) RW failure of factual information. C'mon CD, 15 years with the parent you'd have to be better connected to know things like if RHC is getting management support, or resignation numbers and do better than "I think it's 9K" or "it's two years or maybe one", we're not in an "I think that's right profession", unless you're a mushroom. MAS only asking for a bit of clarity. Heck I could pick up a phone and find out the last two and I don't even work in either carrier. Guys like Sage are putting it out there as they see it so others like MAS and WAF can get a clearer understanding of the landscape, some of your posts have just fogged up the valley again. Rumour network or not, majority of what goes on here is the legitimate passing of information for the benefit of others. You could at least try to keep it that way. :ok:

MAS - what Sage posted is pretty much it AFAIK, add to that there are no fringe benefits to speak of so if you are obligation free in life it's perhaps worth it, but otherwise it's quite an imposition IMO. No such thing as interline, you only get Scoot travel and currently the roster is pretty heavy so don't expect to use it much - you'll probably only enjoy the nightstops for what it's worth. They have their own blogsite if you haven't come across it Scoot Speaks | With Scootitude (http://blog.flyscoot.com), it's a nice decoration but I've always found the way an airline treats their passengers is often a good sign of how they treat their staff (and vice versa). Aside from the BS outside Door 1L onboard your bird it's all good, mostly smooth sailing I'm told. I'd gather you would know what LKY-land is like so can plan accordingly - MestiAndaSistem :p

[ManaAdaSystem]

Thanks for helping out, Chill.
I don't have a lot of luggage, and financially I can afford the entry "fee", but paying for training is a bit outside my comfort zone. I could do it for a long term job, but job security is always a concern in Singapore.
I'm on the fence for now.

Thanks again.

[falcon10]

A friend sent this to me:


Recruitment Process:
1. Pre-Assessment (Video Interview & Online Aptitude Test)
2. Assessment Day (for selected candidates)
3. SIM / Medical / Conversion of Licence / Work Pass application (for selected candidates)

Assessment will take half a day. SIM & Medical dates will be arranged within 4 days following the assessment. Candidates are required to submit their conversion of licence application form personally to CAAS, with the required supporting documents & all original logbooks.

Please note Scoot will not bear the following costs:
- Air ticket, accommodation & miscellaneous incidentals (E.g. Taxi fares / Meals / Excess Baggage charge). We do provide linkups for corporate hotel rates upon request.
- Medical checkup fees.
- Conversion of Licence application fee S$345 (Visa / Master) to CAAS
- CAAS mandatory exam fees
- Relocation to Singapore upon accepting Scoot's Offer
- Depedant pass application / renewal (if applicable)

Scoot's contract & Training bond (Non B777-rated pilot):

-Scoot’s contract/offer letter is an initial term of 5 years.
- Where you’re not B777 rated, the Company will grant a loan of S$33,000 to you in respect of 50% of S$66,000 licence conversion cost.
- You are required to secure a surety / banker’s guarantee for a training bond of S$57,000 (Captain) / S$47,000 (First Officer).

Who can act as your surety (Guarantor):
- Above 21 years of age
- Singaporean/Singapore Permanent Resident/Singapore Employment Pass Holder
- Gainfully employed
- Have not been a party to an existing training bond agreement - Am not a bankrupt
- Cannot be a fellow Scoot employee

How do I know if I am rated and if I can fall under 'Partial Conversion'?
Pilots who are B747 rated will be allowed to go through partial conversion.

What do you get for the effort you put in:
Gross monthly Salary would include:
- Basic Salary
- Productivity Incentive
- Transport allowance
- Per Diem allowance (payout as per IRAS guidelines)
- *performance bonus (As per Management's discretion)

The extent of your tax liability will depend on your tax residency status. Scoot's Benefits:
- Hospitalisation and Surgical Insurance
- 28 days of annual leave per financial year
- 14 days of sick leave per financial year
- 60 days of hospitalization leave (including sick leave) per financial year -

Flexi-Benefit Scheme
- Staff Travel Benefits

[jetjockey696]

CR@P.. I cant afford all that.. Thats a LOT of Luv you long time mister dollars.. I think I can just make the airline ticket.. hehe.. then i homeless in singapore..

[ManaAdaSystem]

Thanks falcon10, good information!

Now if someone can give details on:

What do you get for the effort you put in:
Gross monthly Salary would include:
- Basic Salary
- Productivity Incentive
- Transport allowance
- Per Diem allowance (payout as per IRAS guidelines)
- *performance bonus (As per Management's discretion)

I gather only Basic and Transport are fixed amounts, Productivity and Per Diem variable, and bonus is subject to factors not available to the pilots. May or may not happen, even if an extra months pay is nearly a basic rule in Singapore.

[flyhigh85]

It was good information there, but can someone please tell me what you can expect in salary gross, including per diem, meals etc? For FO and Captain.

I guess it is not a commuting contract but how is the rooster there? Is it 7 weeks on 2 weeks off or similar?

Cheers

[Cross Check]

I'm not there but friends who are said full on. Minimum days off quite often and no roster rotations - your average busy carrier. Maybe they're just unlucky :confused:

[chrislikesblue]

Is Scoot currently doing assessments? I sent an application more than a month ago and I got a reply that they have my application and if I am needed I will hear from them but no word from them again. How long does it take to get an invitation for assessment? Or maybe this is a polite rejection???

[Punchespilot]

Does anyone have info on the upgrading policy. How long after joining and hours requirement.

Thanks

[ScandiFly]

Can anyone give any details on the terms and conditions?

[Burr Styers]

Just some expat observations on 9V land....

I left Singapore last year after having spent a while as an "expat" working in aviation there.
1. in Singapore you are not an expat........You are a foreigner
2 As a foreigner you need to know they speak either English or Chinese, neither very well
3. Singapore is cash rich and asset poor. You will be needed as an asset (not enough in the local gene pool), but not wanted by local management.
4. You will be expected to give the maximum of yourself, whilst being paid the absolute minimum that they can get away with.
5. Singaporean man management is of the...."Ready-Fire-Aim" sort, which can be a bit frustrating to work with.
6.Public transport and the local food is both good and cheap
7.Condo rental is very expensive, as is buying a car, schooling the kids, getting health and dental insurance.
8. Ultimately your work efforts are to support the Temasek organisation and the ruling Lee family, who run the Temasek organisation (Mrs Lee actually)
9.Singaporeans are the most micro managed people on earth.
10. The ruling party politicans have very, very, thin skin
11. Do your homework before you commit
12. The zoo is very good

Probably other stuff, but those were the salient points for me. Give it a look, but do tread very very carefully.

BS

[Metro man]

I don't think there is an upgrade program in place at the moment with Scoot, all Captains are direct entry. There will have to be one in the future but not sure when.

The hours and sector requirements could make it a long wait for an inexperienced joiner as the B777/B787 isn't normally the sort of aircraft you'd get your first command on unless you're with SQ, CX, EK etc.

Joining a low cost with 200 hours and upgrading at 3000 hours onto an A320/B737 happens all the time, I not sure if it would happen with widebodies.

[Burr Styers]

Further to the above, To be honest, if you don't really want or need to go to Singapore, then why bother ?

[ClearedToCrush]

Anyone could help with giving more details about the assessment? What kind of interview/technical questions to expect? Is there any book to prepare for the online tests?

[terd_ferguson]

Well not only do you need to consider the salary, but also don't they want you to deposit a substantial sum of money into a bank account as a bond? Why should anyone have to deposit their savings into an account they can't touch until their bond is over? Isn't the bond (for non rated) the same length as the contract - 5 years? While a bond is fair enough, and indeed industry standard, actually putting up the money for a bond is a ridiculous requirement. All this when you already have to pay 50% of the type rating cost (if non rated). And does the bond amount even reflect this?

I know that this was also the case with Singapore Airlines, but even though their expat contract was quite a bit better than Scoot's, it is stilll too much to expect people to put money upfront for a bond.

Maybe I'm wrong about this and I would be quite interested to hear all the fine details and exact figures for this contract, particularly regarding tye bond and type rating cost. Are you on a salary during the type rating?

Although a much smaller consideration, when it comes to renewing your medical every year etc, do you think the company will reimburse you for this, despite it being essential for you to continue flying for them? I'm pretty sure the answer is no - after all, they assume you have 'scootitude'! ;)

I think their HR department and management have a combination of scootitude, incompetentitude and contemptitude!

[kwaiyai]

Something must be happening as got emailed about DEC Capt app again in Nok/Scoot.
I also here some Scoot crew may transfer to BKK, but you know rumours right. No word on Nok Scoot bond but personally not interested from what I hear about this.
@cleared to crush dont worry to much about the tests and the Video interview, to me it seemed a joke and you will pass
whatever.

[Flaperon777]

Just heard from a colleague that Scoot(Singapore Airlines Low cost subsidiary) might be hiring DECs very soon to be based in Singapore.
Wonder if that's true.
Any intel on the above would be welcome.
Thanks.

[terd_ferguson]

I believe they are taking both FOs and DECs, but I'm only going from what their website says.

It seems for those interested in Scoot, you had better get practising your skills at dancing Gangnam style!:

Scoot Gangnam Style Crew Dance - TZ85 Qingdao to Singapore - YouTube

After all, isn't that what you'd expect to have to do if you took a job with them as a pilot - wearing plastic yellow glasses and dancing around like a clown? (sarcasm intended!). They seem to have a strange take on what people actually want when choosing which airline to travel with. I think they have just got seriously carried away with their idea of being different ('Scootitude' etc) and their management and HR department are seriously deluded.

I am also interested in it, but I have to say their company culture makes me cringe and there are quite a few negatives. If you would be going out with family, I believe you have to sort out and pay for your family's visas etc yourself instead of the company paying for it. I could be wrong, but that is what I'm led to believe.

They make their cabin crew share rooms on layovers - I can only assume that pilots don't have to do this. They say they offer a flexi-benefit scheme for medical insurance etc - not sure how that works exactly but I expect you end up paying for it yourself. They are also probably one of the most inept companies out there in terms of HR and recruitment. They give dates for interviews etc but they are only capable of planning these dates a week or 2 before, but they expect applicants to be ready to be available with a week's notice, book flights and hotels with barely any notice. These dates and/or times have a tendency to be changed at short notice.

It seems that nobody who works there has any inside information to post, good or bad?

They also want you to deposit a substantial sum of money with a Bank in Singapore as a bond that you can't touch for 5 years, plus of course paying for 50% of the type rating.

[kwaiyai]

Last email I got was told to hurry up and attend there Video Interview.
Sim in Bangkok on 29th Jul.
I yet again told the HR woman I am currently working thanks, which part of
that 2 word phrase does this person still not understand.
After emailing again pls remove me off there list I get another email asking me to give us your feedback after your Video Interview:confused:

[terd_ferguson]

Ah yes, assessment in BKK for non-rated pilots.. They are quite happy to invite people to attend their assessment in Bangkok for NokScoot at the end of this month, they want you to arrange time off work for it, they don't care about you having to book and pay for flights and accommodation while there, but what they don't bother telling you, unless pushed, is that this assessment will only go ahead if they sort out the issue of the Thai DCA not letting airlines employ non-rated foreign pilots in Thailand (as I think you mentioned before kwaiyai, maybe in the NokScoot thread).

I can't see the Thai DCA making an exception just for them! They claim to be working on a way round this and are trying to come up with some kind of solution. So, as it stands, if you are non-rated, currently they cannot employ you and they don't have anyway of overcoming this barrier as yet. Completely irresponsible of them to invite people to an assessment then!

[CDRW]

Transport Jock

That shambolic outfit want NTR guys - why - because they got them by the kahoonas. Even type rated guys are asked to "put up a bond" of about 19K Sin. Why... so that guys don't do a runner = as if that is going to stop them.

New joiners - check out the medical benefits. U don't want to get sick or have any form of accident..

And remember - all the management are on appointment from SQ mainline. Keeping their SQ salaries and benefits!!

[kwaiyai]

The DCAT thing would explain alot Terd as a Friend of mine got his assesment time changed 3 times and finally cancelled with no notice.
I think there so called Team reminds me of a bunch from Ryanair who went to
a well known LOCO down South. Maybe its the same Lobotomized Bunch certainly the Lady that contacted me is a legend in Her own mind.

[744 NOMAD]

Hi all,

I have a sim assessment coming up for NOKSCOOT.

Does anyone have any information on the sim detail?

Info appreciated.

Nomad

[PILOTHEAD]

I have an online interview or assessment that I need to complete for scoot. Can someone tell me what to expect. Can pm me or just reply. Thanks a bunch.

[too_much]

Online assessment for scoot;

Video recorded interview;

3 questions

1) Describe what type of environment you work best in
2) Describe a time you overcame a communication problem
3) Give an example of a time when you had to make a decision quickly

Online tests
1.) NDB/ADF exercise totally simple & pointless
2.) fly through the shapes, you have to move a small dot through moving shapes down a tunnel, it's a bit tricky...
3.) multitasking, you need to add up sums, count letters for duplicates + move a runway up and down for oncoming aircraft landing
4.) math test
The last 3 test are questions, what would you do if the captain turned up drunk to the flight etc, you have 3 answers and you allocate up to 6 points to each answer E.G A2 B2 C2 or A5 B1 C0

50% of the TR to be paid as well as a BG to cover the bond for 5 yrs

[ozziekiwi]

Are you a pilot ? You don't seem to have any idea of the differences between the words THERE and THEIR, it's pretty basic really. You are not the only one - many many postings on here on different threads (from supposedly professional people) have terrible spelling and grammar interpretations and for someone who went to school to do more than eat his lunch it's blatantly obvious. I thought a pass in A grade English was a prerequisite for gaining an airline pilots license ???

[lee_apromise]

Dude, why so hyperactive suddenly? AFAIK, the man knows what he's talking about.

I was educated in both GCE O' Level syllabus and Aussie Secondary Education syllabus and personally speaking, Aussies and Kiwis' are in no position to make a fuss about other people's English.

ICAO Level 4 is all you need to be a pilot man. Only Aussies are so anal about Level 6.

[too_much]

Spelling & grammar is nice to have sure...

But this a pprune, if like me you write lots of quick replies & the autocorrect kicks in or you didn't really plan it out properly it can sometimes look untidy.

I have met too many guys over the years that think being an ATP makes you god and they should roll out the red carpet as you board the plane etc...

IMHO we are just drivers doing the same thing day in day out....

[captjns]

I nominate ozziekiwi as PPrune's spelling police.:}.

I also think he would fit in as the HR point to turn away those chaps who pitch up for that airline interview.

[PILOTHEAD]

Haha easy guys. I asked a simple question. Well thanks for the response. I applied for ntr captain and it doesn't hurt to do the whole interview. It's just nice to be prepared and if I don't like it I won't take it.

[kwaiyai]

Hello Ozziekiwi, Point taken about that. I have ICAO English Level seex mate,
Regd's,

[CTAF]

So Scoot is hiring second officers, any info or advice for locals with frozen ATPLs? I've read the earlier posts about the type rating costs, bank guarantee, salary, insurance, medical, 787 rating? etc. You guys think it's going to be the same case for the SOs?

And the job description says you have to fly charter, freighter etc, any take on this? Will the SOs be subcontracted to other affiliates or something?

Thanks! :)

[PILOTHEAD]

Does anyone have a phone number where I can follow up on an application. If so can someone IM me with a human resources number where I can speak word a possible recruiter. Thanks for the info.

[mach92]

Any updates on hiring?

[wonderland]

No hiring yet, rumours are their numbers are good and no need for anymore tech crew.

[atila_101]

Hi folks,

A former scooter here. I believe a lot has been said about TZ in this forum and let me tell you, none of this comes short of what you will find there.
I'm sorry to hear the treatment that has been delivered to some of you but believe me it is better this way, you have saved yourself a good deal of money and headaches.

Foreigners in that outfit will be there temporary. We were lured into joining to start the airline and once is up and running they called in all the SQ guys, either captains that come to TZ to retire or FO's that come to get their promotions, and believe me they will get it before any foreigner since there is no seniority or respect whatsoever.

Both pilot's union and the company union are working for the airline and expect nothing from them.

My only advice is to ignore this airline and keep searching elsewhere if you really are into wide bodies, is not worth it.

[truefaith]

Foreigners in that outfit will be there temporary. We were lured into joining to start the airline and once is up and running they called in all the SQ guys, either captains that come to TZ to retire or FO's that come to get their promotions, and believe me they will get it before any foreigner since there is no seniority or respect whatsoever.
You should be grateful.

The airlines in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Taiwan rather used their own citizens! They are even worse! They are extremely arrogant that they do not depend on foreigners!

Did you see air-crashes?

Even if airlines in Singapore using their own citizens, so be it!

Both pilot's union and the company union are working for the airline and expect nothing from them.
I agree with this.

[rdr]

Have been talking to ex-Scooters. Have found some of the cheapsake efforts on the company's part pretty embarassing

[wheels_down]

If you want Singapore look at Tiger or Jetstar. They are majority crewed by Expats, and are probably the only two carriers in the region like this.

[JGSE]

Quite erudite!!!

[CodyBlade]

At least you got a confirmed hotel room while waiting.

[defuel]

Does Scoot actually have Second officers at the moment? If so, for which routes? Is it possible to find the actual T&C for second officers?
Do they only take home around 1800 Sing dollars a month? It would be good to know if that's the truth, I can save buying a ticket to singapore:ugh:

[wonderland]

It's worst, sgd$1600 and it's only for locals.

[chrishft]

Does anyone with knowledge of Scoots' recruitment process know how firm they are with the FO requirement for Min. 1500 total flight hours on commercial jet aircraft??

I've got a military background with 800 hrs corporate jet and wondered if I'd get a look in, or told to get lost?

Thanks

[Gypsy]

Does anyone know in cash figures what a
non rated Capt has to pay for the 787 course?

It says 50 percent but how much is that

Also is it a 5 year contract

[too_much]

The 1500 jet is firm, no exceptions

[Gypsy]

Re the 787 DEC - found info elsewhere that its probably about 30000SGD but is it a fixed term contract - if so does anyone know how long? 3 or 5 years?

[streetguy]

gypsy,

5 years.

[R8TED THRUST]

What is the current salary for a DEC non rated on the 787? Also is the bond still 30K over 5 years?

[Trash8mofo]

What's the latest here? Back in April I have heard that they weren't taking in DEC 787 even though they already interviewed and conditionally offered the guys, any updates? And what are the requirements and timeline for internal upgrades?

[Team America]

Anyone able to share some info on what a "Commuting" roster with Scoot would like? Also how is life for the expat crew at Scoot these days? Worth applying?

[JGSE]

What commuting roster???

[Team America]

I'm not sure how good it is hence why I am asking but I did hear Scoot does roster you a compact roster (flog you) with a block of days off which might allow enough time to head back to Oz.

Would like to hear if this is happening???

[atila_101]

Hi there Team America,

There is one thing you have to understand here, Sporeans want absolute control over your life, they really think they own you just because they have given you a job.

I have never seen in Scoot such roster that would allow for some days off in a row as to go home, even if home is Oz. We had some guys that wanted that very same type of roster you are talking about to go to Bangkok (only 2 hours away and plenty of flights between SIN and BKK) and in fact were promised such rosters.... never happened.

Is Scoot's policy (this is inherited from SQ) that whenever you want to leave Singapore on your days off you have to notify the company, that gives you an idea of the kind of control freaks you are dealing with.

Don't know where you heard about that rumor, if it was told to you by Scoot's HR during the interview don't believe, they are simply lying in order to get you to commit to their cause. Do your self and your wallet a favor and avoid that outfit at all cost, you will be happier and richer.

[sulphric acid]

Hey everyone some questions here..
Firstly, Where do the second officers fly?
And how's the basic salary? Is it really SGD$1600?
Anyone here is currently working as a Scooter in this airline? It would be nice if you are willing to share the working experience and enviroment there, e.g. how much do you fly a day?
I'm considering of being a cadet there, any suggestions or precautions to take?

Thanks everyone. :O

[Team America]

That feedback is much appreciated, thanks.

[Mrpilot2016]

I have get more then 10.000 hours jet flight bu ı just fınıshed my 777-300 tranıng and I have get only 500 hour 777-300 flıght do you advıse me Flyscoot for fly as a Captain.
PFT is alive and well - even for 777 operators...

According to website as of June 2013:

Captain

Job Description Other than fun and excitement, the job encompasses:

Ensure the safety of passengers, other crew members and the aircraft
Serve the company in any part of the world and on any of the routes served by the company, including the operation of special or chartered flights, passenger or freighter aircraft;
Undertake ground handling, in accordance with the ground handling course conducted for pilots, at stations where the aircraft has diverted to and/or where the company has not engaged a contractor to provide ground handling services for the type of aircraft you’re serving on; and perform such other duties in the air and on the ground as the company may reasonably require of a Captain.
Required Skills

Min. 2000 total flight hours in command on commercial jet aircraft.
Preference will be given to applicants with Glass Cockpit/Flight Management Systems experience.
Pilots without a B777 rating will undergo a conversion and be expected to fund 50% of the costs.
First Officer

Job Description Other than fun and excitement, the job encompasses:

Ensure the safety of passengers, other crew members and the aircraft
Serve the company in any part of the world and on any of the routes served by the company, including the operation of special or chartered flights, passenger or freighter aircraft;
Undertake ground handling, in accordance with the ground handling course conducted for pilots, at stations where the aircraft has diverted to and/or where the company has not engaged a contractor to provide ground handling services for the type of aircraft you’re serving on; and perform such other duties in the air and on the ground as the company may reasonably require of a First Officer.
Required Skills

Min. 1500 total flight hours on commercial jet aircraft.
Preference will be given to applicants with Glass Cockpit/Flight Management Systems experience.
Pilots without a B777 rating will undergo a conversion and be expected to fund 50% of the costs.

I understand most airlines require a training bond with prorated amounts reduced from salaries, but this implies pilots might have to fund part of the training up-front... Right?

Wonder if they will charge pilots for differences training once the 787s start to arrive in a few years? :eek::} This is certainly one way to ensure you weed-out the non-777 rated prospects who might be interested - many of whom could be quite experienced (on 737s/A320s) and good potential employees.

[Stallone]

Scoot is a all B787 fleet now

[Mrpilot2016]

Hello guys, I sent my application to scoot Im qualified to all of the qualifications.
Does anyone knows assessment and interview progress? Can you guys help me with the questions? What they ask to you and what they want from you?

[atila_101]

They want your money, simple.

[King on a Wing]

Seriously.
What can a Captain expect as take home salary at the end of the month?
Include per diems etc

[FlyingChipmunk]

KOaW,
seriously, less than or equal to a Jetstar or Tiger Captain ....circa SGD$18-20k...everything included,
at least, that is what the Cpts were saying as of last month. Expect Sgd$16-18k on average months.
Good management, new planes, expanding fleet and network, chance to live in the most expensive city in the world for Expats. SGD$40k required for the experience.
Buy a car the first thing you get here.

[pfvspnf]

Why would anyone with experience pay for a type rating ? This sort of method of operating has to stop.

[volare_737]

Does anybody know if they are actively recruiting at the moment or in the near future ?

[ikon757]

HI has anyone attended the 2016 or 2017 assessments with SCOOT?
Care to share some info on how it is?

[IFLY757]

I just did the assessment for scoot.First day was group task and interview.Not much difficulty here except the river crossing exercise.That was a hard one.No one got it.

They want you to be you,so dress as you please for the interview.They are very friendly and at the same time professional.

The second day was SIM,there is no profile given.It is raw data TO and no A/T ,No FD.
Through out the exercise there is no Automation and A/T AND FD are off.
A Non precision appch in this condition is quite tough.Followed by a engne out and still all raw data with SE rawdata ILS.
Then you gotta go for Psychometric test which you have to pay for(SGD 450).
Waiting for the results now.

[Onesixty2four]

I just did the assessment for scoot.First day was group task and interview.Not much difficulty here except the river crossing exercise.That was a hard one.No one got it.

They want you to be you,so dress as you please for the interview.They are very friendly and at the same time professional.

The second day was SIM,there is no profile given.It is raw data TO and no A/T ,No FD.
Through out the exercise there is no Automation and A/T AND FD are off.
A Non precision appch in this condition is quite tough.Followed by a engne out and still all raw data with SE rawdata ILS.
Then you gotta go for Psychometric test which you have to pay for(SGD 450).
Waiting for the results now.

Seriously, they want you to pay $450 for the "privilege" of going to their interview? And you did it?!?! No wonder it's getting more and more difficult for real pilots to get good work.

[IFLY757]

Seriously, they want you to pay $450 for the "privilege" of going to their interview? And you did it?!?! No wonder it's getting more and more difficult for real pilots to get good work.

Did you know that the other airlines want you to come with a psychometric evaluation report done by yourself?They all cost money.
I have refused so many interviews for the same reason and found that it was a losing battle,but if you feel that there are real airlines left to fly for then all the best.

[Icarus2001]

Did you know that the other airlines want you to come with a psychometric evaluation report done by yourself?They all cost money.

Did you know that the other airlines undertake the psychometric evaluation report at their cost?

Gives you a big heads up as to what Scoot think of their prospective employees.

[Onesixty2four]

Did you know that the other airlines undertake the psychometric evaluation report at their cost?

Gives you a big heads up as to what Scoot think of their prospective employees.

Agreed.

Last time I paid for anything was a Seneca 1 type rating for my MEIR back in the early 90s. Since then I have gone on to the airlines as a turboprop F/O, gained a command, then jet F/O, gained a command. And changed types.

Throughout all of this I have never forked out a cent to get the job. In all cases I have been on full pay and per diems from day 1. If they want me and my experience they need to pay for it. Only once did an airline suggest I self fund a type rating (changing type). I politely declined. A week later they came back to me and said they would fund the rating.

Have a bit of respect for your license and yourself. By showing from the start that you are willing to be shagged up the botty just to have an interview, you can be damn sure when you join they won't have respect for you.

[Top gun pilot 797]

The second day was SIM,there is no profile given.It is raw data TO and no A/T ,No FD.
Through out the exercise there is no Automation and A/T AND FD are off.
A Non precision appch in this condition is quite tough.Followed by a engne out and still all raw data with SE rawdata ILS.

I am surprised that they let you have the TAC operating.
Would be a pleasure to watch a SE, raw data, non precision, TAC inop approach in low visibility.
Somehow I keep thinking of the blind horse pulling the cart with a wheel off.
On a narrow snaking wet and muddy mountainous pathway...
Hehehe.
So damned unreal !

[etops777]

I am surprised that they let you have the TAC operating.
Would be a pleasure to watch a SE, raw data, non precision, TAC inop approach in low visibility.
Somehow I keep thinking of the blind horse pulling the cart with a wheel off.
On a narrow snaking wet and muddy mountainous pathway...
Hehehe.
So damned unreal !

FYI, the 787 does not have a TAC like the 777. What's on the 787 is the full time compensation!

[jetjockey696]

You need to be pretty rich to join this family.. first you need to pay for interview (airline ticket, hotel, etc etc), then the medical, conversion of your license, bond for 5 yrs and 50% of overpriced typerating etc.

I think I be outpocket just by getting to Singapore, expensive country..

QUOTE:
" Recruitment Process:
1. Pre-Assessment (Video Interview & Online Aptitude Test)
2. Assessment Day (for selected candidates)
3. SIM / Medical / Conversion of Licence / Work Pass application (for selected candidates)

Assessment will take half a day. SIM & Medical dates will be arranged within 4 days following the assessment. Candidates are required to submit their conversion of licence application form personally to CAAS, with the required supporting documents & all original logbooks.

Please note Scoot will not bear the following costs:
- Air ticket, accommodation & miscellaneous incidentals (E.g. Taxi fares / Meals / Excess Baggage charge). We do provide linkups for corporate hotel rates upon request.
- Medical checkup fees.
- Conversion of Licence application fee S$345 (Visa / Master) to CAAS
- CAAS mandatory exam fees
- Relocation to Singapore upon accepting Scoot's Offer
- Depedant pass application / renewal (if applicable)

Scoot's contract & Training bond (Non B777-rated pilot):

-Scoot’s contract/offer letter is an initial term of 5 years.
- Where you’re not B777 rated, the Company will grant a loan of S$33,000 to you in respect of 50% of S$66,000 licence conversion cost.
- You are required to secure a surety / banker’s guarantee for a training bond of S$57,000 (Captain) / S$47,000 (First Officer).

Who can act as your surety (Guarantor):
- Above 21 years of age
- Singaporean/Singapore Permanent Resident/Singapore Employment Pass Holder
- Gainfully employed
- Have not been a party to an existing training bond agreement - Am not a bankrupt
- Cannot be a fellow Scoot employee

How do I know if I am rated and if I can fall under 'Partial Conversion'?
Pilots who are B747 rated will be allowed to go through partial conversion.

What do you get for the effort you put in:
Gross monthly Salary would include:
- Basic Salary
- Productivity Incentive
- Transport allowance
- Per Diem allowance (payout as per IRAS guidelines)
- *performance bonus (As per Management's discretion)

The extent of your tax liability will depend on your tax residency status. Scoot's Benefits:
- Hospitalisation and Surgical Insurance
- 28 days of annual leave per financial year
- 14 days of sick leave per financial year
- 60 days of hospitalization leave (including sick leave) per financial year -

Flexi-Benefit Scheme
- Staff Travel Benefits .. on there NETWORK ONLY"

[Top gun pilot 797]

FYI, the 787 does not have a TAC like the 777. What's on the 787 is the full time compensation!

Do they do the sim eval on the 77 or the 78? Do they have their own 78 sim in Singapore?

[hamil]

No worries, folks, it seems they are no longer looking for captains and F/Os for the 787 fleet.

[Onesixty2four]

You need to be pretty rich to join this family.. first you need to pay for interview (airline ticket, hotel, etc etc), then the medical, conversion of your license, bond for 5 yrs and 50% of overpriced typerating etc.

I think I be outpocket just by getting to Singapore, expensive country..

QUOTE:
" Recruitment Process:
1. Pre-Assessment (Video Interview & Online Aptitude Test)
2. Assessment Day (for selected candidates)
3. SIM / Medical / Conversion of Licence / Work Pass application (for selected candidates)

Assessment will take half a day. SIM & Medical dates will be arranged within 4 days following the assessment. Candidates are required to submit their conversion of licence application form personally to CAAS, with the required supporting documents & all original logbooks.

Please note Scoot will not bear the following costs:
- Air ticket, accommodation & miscellaneous incidentals (E.g. Taxi fares / Meals / Excess Baggage charge). We do provide linkups for corporate hotel rates upon request.
- Medical checkup fees.
- Conversion of Licence application fee S$345 (Visa / Master) to CAAS
- CAAS mandatory exam fees
- Relocation to Singapore upon accepting Scoot's Offer
- Depedant pass application / renewal (if applicable)

Scoot's contract & Training bond (Non B777-rated pilot):

-Scoot’s contract/offer letter is an initial term of 5 years.
- Where you’re not B777 rated, the Company will grant a loan of S$33,000 to you in respect of 50% of S$66,000 licence conversion cost.
- You are required to secure a surety / banker’s guarantee for a training bond of S$57,000 (Captain) / S$47,000 (First Officer).

Who can act as your surety (Guarantor):
- Above 21 years of age
- Singaporean/Singapore Permanent Resident/Singapore Employment Pass Holder
- Gainfully employed
- Have not been a party to an existing training bond agreement - Am not a bankrupt
- Cannot be a fellow Scoot employee

How do I know if I am rated and if I can fall under 'Partial Conversion'?
Pilots who are B747 rated will be allowed to go through partial conversion.

What do you get for the effort you put in:
Gross monthly Salary would include:
- Basic Salary
- Productivity Incentive
- Transport allowance
- Per Diem allowance (payout as per IRAS guidelines)
- *performance bonus (As per Management's discretion)

The extent of your tax liability will depend on your tax residency status. Scoot's Benefits:
- Hospitalisation and Surgical Insurance
- 28 days of annual leave per financial year
- 14 days of sick leave per financial year
- 60 days of hospitalization leave (including sick leave) per financial year -

Flexi-Benefit Scheme
- Staff Travel Benefits .. on there NETWORK ONLY"

So going to the interview is all at your expense. Converting your license is all your expense. Plus the previously mentioned $450 for psychometric testing. Then you have to pay for a type rating and be bonded to the tune of $57,000? Ha, they must really be getting quality pilots. Anyone who touches this must be mentally deficient, desperate and untouched by any other halfway decent airline.

[ikon757]

"onesixty2four:Anyone who touches this must be mentally deficient, desperate and untouched by any other halfway decent airline."

Each place has its shortcomings and no place is perfect.If you think by accepting the terms and conditions one is selling oneself,then everyone has to fly only for BA /lufthansa.

South east asia has its minus points in terms of airline employment but on the other hand would you prefer to fly in Riyadh and have the airline take care of all costs?
These are individual decisions people make based on their lifestyle and requirements.
Sure Vietjet pays for all screening costs and then the circus starts after employment.

So I presume you made the statement about mental deficiency without any facts.
Cause I have seen FAR EAST/middle east and south east.
Nothing is what it seems and some give here ,some take there...in the end there are legendary carriers who still respect the profession like Qantas/BA/Lufthansa and then the rest, you are just a Glorified bus driver.

Times are changing and we need to understand that.
If you feel so strongly about it,why are you not getting into management or at least forcing airline managements worldwide to stop charging POOR Mr.FO to pay for their training?
Criticism and action are two different things

[waffler]

I cannot believe that a pilot would write to defend Scoots terms.
Shame !!

[ikon757]

I cannot believe that a pilot would write to defend Scoots terms.
Shame !!

It is your inability to understand what I have written is the shame.
Do not post something without understanding.

[Onesixty2four]

"onesixty2four:Anyone who touches this must be mentally deficient, desperate and untouched by any other halfway decent airline."

Each place has its shortcomings and no place is perfect.If you think by accepting the terms and conditions one is selling oneself,then everyone has to fly only for BA /lufthansa.

South east asia has its minus points in terms of airline employment but on the other hand would you prefer to fly in Riyadh and have the airline take care of all costs?
These are individual decisions people make based on their lifestyle and requirements.
Sure Vietjet pays for all screening costs and then the circus starts after employment.

So I presume you made the statement about mental deficiency without any facts.
Cause I have seen FAR EAST/middle east and south east.
Nothing is what it seems and some give here ,some take there...in the end there are legendary carriers who still respect the profession like Qantas/BA/Lufthansa and then the rest, you are just a Glorified bus driver.

Times are changing and we need to understand that.
If you feel so strongly about it,why are you not getting into management or at least forcing airline managements worldwide to stop charging POOR Mr.FO to pay for their training?
Criticism and action are two different things

I am currently in SE Asia, and have been in East Asia prior to that for a total of 10 years now. So......perhaps I do know what I'm talking about. And guess what? I haven't had to pay for a damn thing since my MEIR over 25 years ago. Even when I recently changed types. The company in that case wanted me to self sponsor - I said no thanks. A week later they got in touch to say they'd fund it all.

As I have said before, have some respect for yourself and your license.

"Times are changing and we need to understand that". The usual copout from someone who knows his/her selfish actions are undermining the hard work of others in a desperate attempt to get ahead of their experience/skills level.

BTW, I do feel strongly about it because I can see in another decade or so this sort of behaviour will lead to pilots working max hours for very little pay and I feel sorry for the true professionals who are honestly trying to make their way through without getting an a33reaming. But I'll be out of it by then as I am making good money on a realistic schedule and have plenty stashed away because the generation before me wasn't as narcissistic and self centred as the current "command by 30 at all costs" brigade. Good luck with that.

[ikon757]

I am currently in SE Asia, and have been in East Asia prior to that for a total of 10 years now. So......perhaps I do know what I'm talking about. And guess what? I haven't had to pay for a damn thing since my MEIR over 25 years ago. Even when I recently changed types. The company in that case wanted me to self sponsor - I said no thanks. A week later they got in touch to say they'd fund it all.

As I have said before, have some respect for yourself and your license.

"Times are changing and we need to understand that". The usual copout from someone who knows his/her selfish actions are undermining the hard work of others in a desperate attempt to get ahead of their experience/skills level.

BTW, I do feel strongly about it because I can see in another decade or so this sort of behaviour will lead to pilots working max hours for very little pay and I feel sorry for the true professionals who are honestly trying to make their way through without getting an a33reaming. But I'll be out of it by then as I am making good money on a realistic schedule and have plenty stashed away because the generation before me wasn't as narcissistic and self centred as the current "command by 30 at all costs" brigade. Good luck with that.


Onesixty2four

If you felt strongly about it,you would not work for these companies as a mark of protest.
You did not and will not cause as you said it "Making good money".

[ikon757]

I am currently in SE Asia, and have been in East Asia prior to that for a total of 10 years now. So......perhaps I do know what I'm talking about. And guess what? I haven't had to pay for a damn thing since my MEIR over 25 years ago. Even when I recently changed types. The company in that case wanted me to self sponsor - I said no thanks. A week later they got in touch to say they'd fund it all.

As I have said before, have some respect for yourself and your license.

"Times are changing and we need to understand that". The usual copout from someone who knows his/her selfish actions are undermining the hard work of others in a desperate attempt to get ahead of their experience/skills level.

BTW, I do feel strongly about it because I can see in another decade or so this sort of behaviour will lead to pilots working max hours for very little pay and I feel sorry for the true professionals who are honestly trying to make their way through without getting an a33reaming. But I'll be out of it by then as I am making good money on a realistic schedule and have plenty stashed away because the generation before me wasn't as narcissistic and self centred as the current "command by 30 at all costs" brigade. Good luck with that.


Onesixty2four

If you felt strongly about it,you would not work for these companies as a mark of protest.Besides we all know what good that would do.

You did not and will not cause as you said it, "Making good money".

I have seen enough silence in the real world but ,hey the same lot will yell night and day on PPRUNE.

[pfvspnf]

Ikon , have you lost your mind ?

It's because of people like you that terms have fallen so much. The minute people stop paying and say NO to these conditions , things will revert back to the good old days pretty darn fast .

Don't give them a dime go elsewhere

[Onesixty2four]

Onesixty2four

If you felt strongly about it,you would not work for these companies as a mark of protest.Besides we all know what good that would do.

You did not and will not cause as you said it, "Making good money".

I have seen enough silence in the real world but ,hey the same lot will yell night and day on PPRUNE.

Who said I worked for one of these companies? I certainly didn't, and I don't. I was making more than I am now on my last contract but walked out with 1 day's notice when they tried to scam me. I'm now with a company that respects me and vice-versa. That's how strongly I feel about it. Maybe if a few more people like you had the b#lls to follow that sort of lead there wouldn't be the ongoing erosion of T's & C's so apparent in this thread.

But hey! Keep bending over and taking it. By the time I'm out and relaxing you'll be sitting there on a fraction (in real terms) what I have made wondering where it all went wrong.

[FlyingChipmunk]

IKON,
you're a mug with a brown nose.
....and remember to retract that landing gear coz paying all that money doesn't mean you and your mates over there have the nuts and bolts it takes to make a real pilot.
Go back to bending over mate.....

[You rock]

are they actually offering upgrades too senior first officers

[filejw]

I am surprised that they let you have the TAC operating.
Would be a pleasure to watch a SE, raw data, non precision, TAC inop approach in low visibility.
Somehow I keep thinking of the blind horse pulling the cart with a wheel off.
On a narrow snaking wet and muddy mountainous pathway...
Hehehe.
So damned unreal !

Funny when I started we did this on almost every six month check.LOL

[ikon757]

IKON,
you're a mug with a brown nose.
....and remember to retract that landing gear coz paying all that money doesn't mean you and your mates over there have the nuts and bolts it takes to make a real pilot.
Go back to bending over mate.....

It takes more then writing on pprune to be a real pilot mr chipmunk and besides you have already proven you are yet to come out of your skin colour allergy.Want to make a meaningful debate then write in such manner ,oh unless you could not afford a college education.,in that case I excuse your poor writing skills.hope you don't fly as bad.
I was in a south East Asian Airline when one of the EU nation folded up.
The nationals of that country we're offered an upgrade to P1 but we're being skinned to the bone for the upgrade.They we're 45 plus and clearly being taken advantage of.
Try listening to their personal plight (no job back home,no upgrade offer &in a reasonable time frame,,everyone had a story )
As a captain I could only offer sympathy but I certainly did not offer sarcastic comments because it was roses on my side of the field.
But then I already guessed your a pilot not a human.

[Flyboy_SG]

Funny when I started we did this on almost every six month check.LOL

That's when real pilots flew the aircrafts. Now we are cockpit managers not allowed to turn off Flight directors on FBW aircraft.

[Flyboy_SG]

I am currently in SE Asia, and have been in East Asia prior to that for a total of 10 years now. So......perhaps I do know what I'm talking about. And guess what? I haven't had to pay for a damn thing since my MEIR over 25 years ago. Even when I recently changed types. The company in that case wanted me to self sponsor - I said no thanks. A week later they got in touch to say they'd fund it all.

As I have said before, have some respect for yourself and your license.

"Times are changing and we need to understand that". The usual copout from someone who knows his/her selfish actions are undermining the hard work of others in a desperate attempt to get ahead of their experience/skills level.

BTW, I do feel strongly about it because I can see in another decade or so this sort of behaviour will lead to pilots working max hours for very little pay and I feel sorry for the true professionals who are honestly trying to make their way through without getting an a33reaming. But I'll be out of it by then as I am making good money on a realistic schedule and have plenty stashed away because the generation before me wasn't as narcissistic and self centred as the current "command by 30 at all costs" brigade. Good luck with that.


I second you 1624. Last I paid was for my FAA ME IR too. Pay to fly is not the way to go. Because of few pilots who are ready to sell themselves, the whole industry is getting to this tune. If everyone refuses to pay, where will they find pilots ? Off course bonding is a norm but not paying for type. In one of the airlines assessment I was even paid a handsome layover allowance ! How amazing.


At least Don't be desperate for your second airline job guys.

[Flyboy_SG]

are they actually offering upgrades too senior first officers

Yes, 12 per year. But no seniority list. Case to case offer, the first guy to join as FO is still an FO.

[HH Chan]

Yes, 12 per year. But no seniority list. Case to case offer, the first guy to join as FO is still an FO.

The first guy to join as FO still Fo? Any stats to back up? As I know FOs have been upgraded tp Capts...or are we missing something here?

[Flyboy_SG]

I don't have complete stats. Heard it from a guy who joined them during early days on 777. He is now a 787 capt. Probably command comes for the best.

[atila_101]

I don't have complete stats. Heard it from a guy who joined them during early days on 777. He is now a 787 capt. Probably command comes for the best.

He is right, the first FO in Scoot, Mr. "spiky hair", is still and FO and probably will always be, at least in Scoot. His chances were slim with former chief pilot, now with the new chief pilot and his gang probably no chance at all.

Command in Scoot does not necessarily comes for the best but for the closer to management, for instance, the flying skills of all the local guys that got promoted on first batch was more than questionable however they got the left seat based on political reason, promotion of local talent, if I remember correct.

[HH Chan]

He is right, the first FO in Scoot, Mr. "spiky hair", is still and FO and probably will always be, at least in Scoot. His chances were slim with former chief pilot, now with the new chief pilot and his gang probably no chance at all.

Command in Scoot does not necessarily comes for the best but for the closer to management, for instance, the flying skills of all the local guys that got promoted on first batch was more than questionable however they got the left seat based on political reason, promotion of local talent, if I remember correct.

So you saying Scoot is easier for command as compared to their parent company SIA? Heard scoot command is only 3 months long..

[Big turbine]

Command in Scoot does not necessarily comes for the best but for the closer to management, for instance, the flying skills of all the local guys that got promoted on first batch was more than questionable however they got the left seat based on political reason, promotion of local talent, if I remember correct.

Atila what makes you say that? Were you one of the instructors there?

[ZOCC]

Hey Guys ,

I personally know of 2 people who went for the DEC 320 interview over a month ago. None of them have heard back from scoot. I have heard from others as well in the past that all went well at the interview but scoot never got back to them or replied to any of their emails.
Anyone else heard about anything like this?
I have my interview scheduled for end of the month and I'm wondering if it's going to be all the same.
I don't understand why they'd call you for an interview an invest their time in it if they weren't keen on recruiting. Or do they just not care about sending you an email if you weren't up to their perceived standard.

ZOCC

[ZOCC]

Any 320 drivers at Scoot ( tiger ) , Anything you can share will be appreciated.
Salary , leave info appreciated

[FlyingChipmunk]

ZOCC,
when were you called up for an interview and when is your interview?

[ZOCC]

ZOCC,
when were you called up for an interview and when is your interview?

hey got the confirmation in Early August. Interview on the 6th September. I had to reschedule .

[FlyingChipmunk]

ZOCC,
all will be revealed in your interview with HR.
Have you read through this thread, every page of it?
All the info. here is true and past interview experience has been documented here as well.
Nothing has changed. Just be prepared to pay....and pay...and pay.
Singapore is the most expensive country to live in .....its not easy here.

[ZOCC]

Flyingchipmunk, most of the talk here has been about the 787 and the training cost / bond involved.
I'm 320 rated with 3000 PIC on type , I believe I don't have to pay for training . Only the Psychometry test + licensing costs , while this is not ideal I do think it's only a small hurdle. Once you are passed that I feel like the big picture seems much more comfy.

16000 SGD post tax seems like an average pay packet.

[FlyingChipmunk]

ZOCC, you sound like a nice guy.
Yes S$16k after tax is spot on....that's about 80hrs flying mind you.

If you have family, wife not planning to work, have to put kids in school, you will quickly realise that HK Airlines and the Middle East are the only places you want to be at.

SG is super expensive and you will be working really hard for this S$16k.

At HKA, you're looking at around S$17k after rent for a 2 bed condo and after taxes. That is based on 50hrs. (told to me by a current HKA A320 Capt)

Go figure.

[pfvspnf]

Paying for anything these days is just plain pathetic